Durango has died. The Pilot is moving up. Can it take it?

[rholbrook]

Our long time best friend the Dodge Durango finally died last week. Many miles and many trips with the whole family. It's hard to find a vehicle for a family of eight that met all our needs. Forest roads, state parks, beaches, rocky tracks, she went everywhere I asked her. And pulled anything I needed behind her. But sigh, it lost something and over heated, no symptoms, just one day went right to the red and I thought we could make it to the next exit. We did not. Both heads cracked, or at minimum both head gaskets. Can't say enough about the first gen Durangos, although as far as longevity mine seems to be the exception more than the rule. Mid-size, big V8, three rows, AWD with 4H and 4L. What's not to like?

Anyways. The wife's 2014 Honda pilot is the up and comer. I believe you should go as far as you can with what you have and make adventures. After all, if I waited for that dream Land Cruiser we would have never left home.
We love the Pilot. Its bigger inside than the Durango, much more comfortable on road, and gas mileage is good for a car this size. It actually has decent protection underneath and a lockable center and rear diff with traction control. Its done great in the snow and the forest roads. I know other than that my capabilities are limited.

The BIG question. Who on here roles in a Pilot?
My biggest concern it the beach driving we do. I'm talking Cape Lookout, off grid, all on your own camping. I have read that when the tires are aired down the traction control becomes
non-disable-able. And that the car bogs itself down and wont keep the wheel speed up. I'm looking for real world experience. Not the random, "I heard that my brother's friend pulls the traction control relay and he does fine." Or, "sand is just like snow, keep your speed up and don't turn sharp." And the worst, "the Pilot isn't meant for off road travel, buy a 4runner."
The Pilot forums are a different breed of people.
Bottom line is, we are going, now how do I make it work?
All our trips are with everything loaded on a hitch carrier and a roof rack. We have learned to travel light.
The Honda is getting Timbren rear "springs" and a roof rack this fall.

Thanks guys!

 

[DaveInDenver]

Seems to me the question is whether you ever used the low range in your Durango or not. Can't say I know anything about the Pilot but I believe the Ridgeline is based on the same chassis and that seems to be the biggest disadvantage. You reach the point where you're pushing the vehicle too hard and overheat the transmission on a trail where you should've used something with a transfer case.

 

[rholbrook]

I've only used low range during a few steep and slick descents and once when I had a trailer stuck in deep sand (fun fact, you need to air down the trailer tires too).
The sand and most other situations I would usually stay in AWD anyways. Then if I started bogging or spinning I'd lock it in.

 

[4x4x4doors]

(fun fact, you need to air down the trailer tires too)

Surprising how many people --even those who religiously air down the towing vehicle-- don't know that.

 

[vintageracer]

I like the Honda Ridgeline for what it is. A nice "Four Door AWD Car" with a bed and a trunk-lid in the bed that is great for daily transportation, travel trips and small projects around the house. The Pilot is also a nice "Four Door AWD Car" without a trunk-lid and room in the back for more stuff you want to keep out of the weather. Neither of these vehicles should be considered a "4WD Truck".

A better description of the Ridgeline and Pilot drivetrain might be AWD instead of the 4WD as they are represented to the public by Honda and by the 4WD emblem on the rear of each of these vehicles. No switchable transfer case, a smooth, quiet and comfortable highway ride hardly makes for a very capable off-road vehicle particularly in sand. The options of the lockable rear and case may be something unique to the Pilot.

One of the drive line issues with a Honda Ridgeline is the LONG none-serviceable front to rear driveshaft in these vehicles due to the location of the transmission in the front of the vehicle. This driveshaft has staked U joints and a none serviceable carrier bearing. They tend to become imbalanced after 100K miles or less as the carrier bearing rubber goes bad causing a vibration in the truck. A replacement front to rear driveshaft is the only option for repair and is a $500+ part along with the additional cost of labor for installation. I would check to see if the same issue exists with the Honda Pilot. You should also inspect this carrier bearing on any used Ridgeline you consider for purchase.

Having said all this only YOU can really determine how you will use your new to you vehicle. IF significant off-road driving will be part of your future activities I am sure these 2 Honda products as good as they are as transportation vehicles may NOT meet all your needs for a capable off-road and tow vehicle.

 

[rholbrook]

Any AWD crossover will never match the Durango, I know that. Nobody makes a midsize body on frame 4WD 8-seater anymore. Things are trending to either bigger, or more carlike. Not much in the middle for us. I mostly know what to expect out of it. I just don't want to be the first to get one stuck on the beach. The airing down and VSC problem I've heard of is my biggest worry. If a spinning wheel is braked every time than I'd just be plain stuck. Theoretically if the speed is right and the air pressure is right and nothing causes me to stop unexpectedly I shouldn't ever spin a wheel. But we all know those are unreasonable expectations.
My plan right now is to have a trial run at a closer beach with a friend in another truck. That way I can test out the Pilot in some unsure situation. Find the limit and then make a plan to stay away from that limit.
I've been called crazy before.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The 4Runner is still body on frame and has the option for a 3rd row. Plus it's got a real 4wd, low range and off highway specific traction aids.

 

[shenrie]

I used to take our 89 awd civic wagon off-road often. I’ve had more than a few off-roaders in “real” 4wd vehicles ask me how the hell I got “that thing” up where they were. It was a little more raw of a awd car. No traction control or any fancy electronics, just a fwd based car with a viscous coupler that sensed when the back wheels are going a different speed than the fronts and engaged just long enough to get you through the hairy spots. It also has a super low gear that came in handy as well.

In other words, just take the thing out and see what it’ll do. It’s more driver than vehicle anyway. IMHO, doing like you plan with a recovery vehicle close by is the way to go. Figure out the limits of the thing and if they aren’t what your after, sell it and get yourself a good down for something more robust for your family adventures. In the meantime enjoy the beweildered looks you get from the people with real 4wds when you roll up in something that technically shouldn’t be where it is

 

[DaveInDenver]

I've said many times it amazes me to see stuff in the most out of the way places. You might get away with something a few times but long term doesn't mean it's wise tempting the 4x4 gods tearing up your vehicle and getting something that's not capable stuck or damaging the trail in the process just trying to prove the naysayers wrong. If the Pilot/Ridgeline suit your task of light 'wheeling, great, go for it. But to say you can get a Civic wagon everywhere a truck with real part time 4wd and low range can go is simply not true. The flip side is of course many people have or build more capacity than they really need, stock 4wd truck usually being much more capable than their driver can use. Or most precisely are willing to risk, the reason you see a 1990s Civic tackling a tough trail is that the owner could probably care less if they puncture an oil pan, put a bow in the floor or blow up their transmission.

 

[(none)]

You'll be fine. The only thing I'd be concerned about are trans temps. Get you an OBDII reader to monitor trans temps, add a larger air to cooler if they keep getting too warm, keep the trans locked into 1st or 2nd gear when in the sand and such, and roll with it.
Don't be afraid to lock that diff, I'd do it as soon as you hit the sand, keeps diff temps lower and saves wear on those clutches. As you kind of eluded to, they have no real transfer case. All of the awd/4wd work is done in the rear diff. Lock that in and you have guaranteed 3 wheel power all the time.

 

[TernOverland]

I don't know whether a winch is in the picture at all, but aside from getting you unstuck, a winch makes a good short distance crawler gear.

 

[shenrie]

I've said many times it amazes me to see stuff in the most out of the way places.

man, aint that the truth?! some of the vehicles i see where i thought i would be alone due to how messed up the road was and then seeing a bone stock corolla parked at the trail head with bald tires and steel cords showing, lolol.

But to say you can get a Civic wagon everywhere a truck with real part time 4wd and low range can go is simply not true.

Sorry if thats how what i said came across. i most definitely do not believe that in any way shape or form. one off camber creek crossing at a slow speed will stop that car in its tracks. you can haul ass and make it through quite a few things, but there is no replacement for a real 4wd by any of the unibodied suv's, cars, etc. there is a lsd i could install in the rear diff and theres also a weird little device (phantom grip) that will turn the stock front diff into a lsd, but even those two things wouldnt make the car that much more capable. especially since its biggest handicap is clearance.

however, i do believe its more driver than vehicle in any situation. a good driver can get an ill prepared vehicle someplace a bad driver couldnt get a well equipped vehicle.

Or most precisely are willing to risk, the reason you see a 1990s Civic tackling a tough trail is that the owner could probably care less if they puncture an oil pan, put a bow in the floor or blow up their transmission.

hey, i build my ******** to have fun, not worry about damages while using said vehicle. i do worry about oil pans. not really damaging them, but moreso leaving 4 quarts of poison in the forest. bowed floors? nope, dont care. it was a 1700 dollar ride that ive rallyxed for 7 seasons (really 14 with my wife codriving) and if i didnt mess up the tranny racing it for that long, a few mtn adventures aint gonna hurt it one bit.

that said, i didnt take what the op said as him wanting to tackle tough trails or do any rock crawling. washboard and pothole roads, roads with washouts, and even some random "i think we can get up that" stuff the pilot will likely do just fine proving he knows his limits. hell, it might even surprise him like our dumb little wagon has done to us many, many times. i couldnt tell you how many times my wife and i have looked at each other and said, "how did we just do that?"

however, i have read about the issues with traction control, etc. i think taking it out and seeing exactly what its limits are in the sand with a chase vehicle is a really smart idea. at least that way the op will know whether or not to venture out onto a questionable area or park farther away and take a little walk so he knows the fam will make it home ok.

 

[rholbrook]

The 4Runner is still body on frame and has the option for a 3rd row. Plus it's got a real 4wd, low range and off highway specific traction aids.

Two problems with a 4Runner. I don’t already own one. And I need 8 seats.
Budget says we’ll be getting something else in two years and putting the Pilot back to the non-primary adventure vehicle. I recognize we will be in the Tahoe, Seqouia, or Wagoner (not holding my breath) class at that point.

I do greatly covet the current gen 4runners.

 

[rholbrook]

You'll be fine. The only thing I'd be concerned about are trans temps. Get you an OBDII reader to monitor trans temps, add a larger air to cooler if they keep getting too warm, keep the trans locked into 1st or 2nd gear when in the sand and such, and roll with it.
Don't be afraid to lock that diff, I'd do it as soon as you hit the sand, keeps diff temps lower and saves wear on those clutches. As you kind of eluded to, they have no real transfer case. All of the awd/4wd work is done in the rear diff. Lock that in and you have guaranteed 3 wheel power all the time.

Already ahead of you on the tranny temps.
My Durango had an all gear diff in the transfer case for its AWD mode.
The Honda will create much more heat because of slipping clutches in the VTM-4 system.
I still mostly worry about airing down. The low sidewalk and the confused VSC

 

[rholbrook]

It’s really just going to be a “try and see” kind of thing.
I’ll take notes and pictures when I do.
If I watch the temps and keep speed reasonable, the worst that can happen is I need a tug or two and my friends laugh at me.