EarthCruiser Overland Vehicles

[Northern Explorer]

Could someone dispel the gnawing doubt for me:


Dry weight: 4000kg
GVM: 4500kg
125 litres diesel = about 110kg
125 litres water = 125kg
This means kerb weight, ie. dry weight + fuel + water, but without driver and passenger = 4235kg

Which leaves the vehicle with the payload of just 265 kg before the GVM is reached.

Fitting the vehicle with an extra wheel carrier, wheel and tyre (~80kg ), bullbar (~100kg) and extra fuel tank (90 litres of fuel ~80kg, plus the weight of the tank) would take the vehicle over the GVM of 4500kg, making it illegal to drive on a car licence, and mandating the light rigid truck licence (LR) with all its added cost and embuggerance.

If I fitted just the extra fuel and water tanks of 90 litres each, that would take 180-190kg of the 265kg payload, and leave me with the vehicle payload of 75kg. The bad news is that I would then have to go on diet, and dramatically lose weight (about 40kg of it to be exact) in order to stay legal driving an Earth Cruiser on a car licence. The good news, I suppose, is that after losing 40kg body weight, I would still have to leave my dearly beloved wife at home, for impeccable legal reasons.

So, unfortunately, there goes my incentive to get an Earth Cruiser
Pity.

In the interest of fairness, the specs really should mention that only the base version without accessories or extra fuel/water on board can be legally driven on a car licence, and then preferably by slim people

I would be ****** off something rotten if I were to discover this aspect after outlaying $170k+ rather than before...

Vehicle Specifications
EarthCruiser is built on a FG84DC Mitsubishi Fuso Canter 4x4 cab light truck chassis. This platform is a commercially proven 4x4 truck capable of loads up to 6000Kg GVM, yet transformed into an EarthCruiser, the all up weight is under 4500kg allowing superb power to weight ratio and economical fuel consumption.


Looks like the GVM is 6000Kg not 4500Kg

 

[FusoFG]

Looks like the GVM is 6000Kg not 4500Kg

I think it would be 6000kg with dual wheels, with srw it looks like only 4500kg

 

[haven]

Landy2010, contact the Earth Cruiser folks to get the precise numbers
for cargo capacity. Use this link http://www.earthcruiser.com.au/contact.php

The Earth Cruiser uses custom springs and suspension mounting points.
So the gross vehicle mass rating is lower. I think the 4500 kg rating also
has something to do with Australia's driver license and vehicle inspection rules.

Earth Cruiser builder Kym Bolton has travelled thousands of miles in the prototype
and production versions. He says there is plenty of capacity for cargo and passengers.

Chip Haven

 

[63tlf8]

Could someone dispel the gnawing doubt for me:

Dry weight: 4000kg
GVM: 4500kg
125 litres diesel = about 110kg
125 litres water = 125kg
This means kerb weight, ie. dry weight + fuel + water, but without driver and passenger = 4235kg
....

Despite several responses I didn't actually see the question answered

In the most basic terms this is based on a 6000Kg chassis. It will either be registered as a 6000 Kg GVM requiring a LR licence or down rated by an approved engineer to 4500 KG and able to be driven on a car licence.

As almost every other 4WD with off road outfitting is over its GVM in Australia:Wow1: you could say that many either don't know or don't care.

I guess that my question would be is this sold as a 4500Kg rated camper or 6000Kg rated? Fair to say that the chassis will handle the weight (no info on the suspension and wheel tyre combo) but will it be legal with a selection from the options list fully fuelled, watered and stowed?????

The one thing this industry needs is straight answers. The recreational sector of buyers are not necessarily adequately informed on the fine print and we all risk the industry falling to the level of repute of the used car salesman. (Comments are relative to Australia but you may also agree for your country)

Tony

 

[landy2010]

Gents,

The dry weight figure of 4000kg and GVM of 4500kg do come straight from the good EarthCruiser folks, via specs published on their webpage. The major selling point for the EarthCruiser in Australia is the ability to drive it on a car licence. Nobody mentions this valid limitation that if you fit accessories and carry extra fuel/water, you will be above the 4500kg GVM limit and therefore illegal on a car licence.

I cannot get a valid question answered: What does it say on the vehicle's compliance plate? GVM 6000kg or GVM 4500kg?

For those in the US: There is no exemption to drive RVs over GVM 4500kg on a car licence in Australia.
To drive a 6000kg GVM vehicle I need to go to school and get a commercial Light Rigid truck licence,
which has quite a few requirements over and above the car licence, such as an annual medical

I understand full well that the vehicle will compfortably take the load up to 6000kg GVM. This is not what I am asking about.

The problem is that I am not licensed for a truck over 4500kg.

If I drive the Earth Cruiser on a car licence and have an accident, and the traffic police post-accident forensics finds that the vehicle GVM at the time of accident was above 4500kg, then I am deemed to have been an unlicensed driver. Major legal problems, kiss my insurance goodbye as well, the cost is likely to well exceed the purchase price of the EarthCruiser. If anyone is injured, I could be looking at jail time, particularly in WA, NT and Qld.

The age of "do not know and do not care" is well and truly over, particularly when dealing with insurance companies.

My questions still stand:

What does it say on the compliance plate? 4500 or 6000?
If the former, the truck has legal payload of 265kg with standard fuel and water on board, nil accessories.
If the latter, it cannot be legally driven on a car licence no matter what.

Should there be a clear warning in the specs that keeping the truck to GVM 4500kg
and thus being able to legally drive it on a car licence precludes fitting of accessories, and/or extra fuel and water tanks?

 

[Mickldo]

Gents,

The dry weight figure of 4000kg and GVM of 4500kg do come straight from the good EarthCruiser folks, via specs published on their webpage. The major selling point for the EarthCruiser in Australia is the ability to drive it on a car licence. Nobody mentions this valid limitation that if you fit accessories and carry extra fuel/water, you will be above the 4500kg GVM limit and therefore illegal on a car licence.

I cannot get a valid question answered: What does it say on the vehicle's compliance plate? GVM 6000kg or GVM 4000kg?

For those in the US: There is no exemption to drive RVs over GVM 4500kg on a car licence in Australia.
To drive a 6000kg GVM vehicle I need to go to school and get a commercial Light Rigid truck licence,
which has quite a few requirements over and above the car licence, such as an annual medical

I understand full well that the vehicle will compfortably take the load up to 6000kg GVM. This is not what I am asking about.

The problem is that I am not licensed for a truck over 4500kg.

If I drive the Earth Cruiser on a car licence and have an accident, and the traffic police post-accident forensics finds that the vehicle GVM at the time of accident was above 4500kg, then I am deemed to have been an unlicensed driver. Major legal problems, kiss my insurance goodbye as well, the cost is likely to well exceed the purchase price of the EarthCruiser. If anyone is injured, I could be looking at jail time, particularly in WA, NT and Qld.

The age of "do not know and do not care" is well and truly over, particularly when dealing with insurance companies.

My questions still stand:

What does it say on the compliance plate? 4500 or 6000?
If the former, the truck has legal payload of 265kg with standard fuel and water on board, nil accessories.
If the latter, it cannot be legally driven on a car licence no matter what.

Should there be a clear warning in the specs that keeping the truck to GVM 4500kg
and thus being able to legally drive it on a car licence precludes fitting of accessories, and/or extra fuel and water tanks?

I have my HC license and don't have to have an annual medical. When I used to have my Drivers Authorisation Card (for carrying paying passengers in a bus etc) I had to get the medical but not for the normal license.

In regards to the weight the original compliance plate should still read 6000kg but there should be a blue mod plate or a "second stage of manufacture" compliance plate that shows the modified GVM as being 4500kg as well as the original compliance plate.

I don't think that there should be a special warning. As long as the weights are listed that's all that matters. It is up to the driver to check the load at any time not the body builder. That's the trade off you have to make. Car license and tiny payload or truck license and big payload.

As long as you aren't a complete numpty behind the wheel the truck license isn't that hard to get.

 

[Amesz00]

I have my HC license and don't have to have an annual medical. When I used to have my Drivers Authorisation Card (for carrying paying passengers in a bus etc) I had to get the medical but not for the normal license.

In regards to the weight the original compliance plate should still read 6000kg but there should be a blue mod plate or a "second stage of manufacture" compliance plate that shows the modified GVM as being 4500kg as well as the original compliance plate.

I don't think that there should be a special warning. As long as the weights are listed that's all that matters. It is up to the driver to check the load at any time not the body builder. That's the trade off you have to make. Car license and tiny payload or truck license and big payload.

As long as you aren't a complete numpty behind the wheel the truck license isn't that hard to get.

I agree with everything that Mickldo has said.
to hold a valid bus license you need to have a medical each year, but not for a truck license.
I got my MR license pretty much the day after i turned 18, with 2 hours lessons directly beforehand, so it is definetly not hard to do.

 

[63tlf8]

I don't think that there should be a special warning. As long as the weights are listed that's all that matters. It is up to the driver to check the load at any time not the body builder. That's the trade off you have to make. Car license and tiny payload or truck license and big payload.

As long as you aren't a complete numpty behind the wheel the truck license isn't that hard to get.

G'day Mick,

Can't agree with you on this....other than a truck license (and commercial rego rates) is easy to get but expensive to maintain.

The RV industry depends on the well heeled to keep the sales volume up. Guess what, they aren't all retired truck drivers. Perhaps we should also be looking at the industry set up to down rate the Rv's to allow full size trucks to be driven on normal licenses:Wow1:

End of the day if you down rate a GVM to get additional bums on seats but the vehicle as delivered isn't going to be legal when the tanks are full then you have to wonder at the ethics involved. It's OK for the international commentators to offer their opinions but in the end we have to share the roads / tracks with the vehicles in question so it is a question of being close to home.

I should mention that I have absolutely no relationship, good or bad, with the vehicle in question. This is an issue that applies to many off road vehicles here, be they Toyota, Mitsubishi, Land Rover or any other off road vehicle that is targeted by the after market accessory resellers.

I stand by the fact that these are valid concerns raised by someone who has done their homework (for a change) and not something we should be attempting to sweep under the carpet.

Let the games begin!

Tony

 

[gait]

Let the games begin!

???? is that really your intention?

Haven't confirmed it but I believe that internationally the boundary for driving licence is 3.5mt so LR licence is required to get international licence to drive 4.495mt vehicle overseas.

While driving licences are the same throughout Aus vehicle registration isn't. Its messy and confusing (to me). I believe that below 4.5mt some states have no inspection but above 4.5mt require an annual inspection in that state - tough if you happen to be a couple of thousand km, or another country away, when its due.

The issue of vehicle mass close to the GVM is not confined to 4wd vehicles its common within RV's/motor homes in general. These guys are at the reputable end of the spectrum of operators in Aus.

Deciding if a vehicle is "fit for purpose" is the role of the purchaser, the supplier/manufacturer can't make that judgement for you. From your first post it seems you have sufficient information to assertain that it probably isn't fit for your purpose. Well done. That's quite a bit more data than is available for most RVs. That you don't like the answer, and assume that many potential purchasers don't have your knowledge and analytical capabilities, are quite different issues, independent of any manufacturer.

If you want to know what it says on the compliance plate pick up the phone and ask them.

Personally I never take any advertising or marketing material at face value.

 

[haven]

Let me say again:

Contact the Earth Cruiser folks to get the precise numbers for cargo
capacity and GVM rating. Use this link http://www.earthcruiser.com.au/contact.php

No need to speculate on this subject.

 

[63tlf8]

???? is that really your intention?

No. Not my intention. I'm not in the market for this vehicle or any other and am only commenting on an issue raised by another.

Obviously our views are different. One camp puts the onus fully on the purchaser / driver to ensure they remain within Australia's current rules for registration and the other feels that an option should not be offered if it has the potential to make a vehicle illegal. The analogy was drawn that you have two opposing sides.....games?

My views are expressed as an Australian driving on Australian roads. Other countries have their own rules and I would not presume to comment on their application. I don't live there.

As mentioned previously, this vehicle just happens to be an illustration of the confusion that can exist, not the target. We agree that exceeding the GVM is a relatively common problem across 4x4 and RV's in Australia. Whether you are positioned at the top or bottom of the supplier spectrum isn't really an issue unless you believe that all at the top are pure etc.

If you would like to take over my soap box, PM me and I'll send it on. I think I've finished with it.

Cheers

Tony

 

[Mickldo]

G'day Mick,

Can't agree with you on this....other than a truck license (and commercial rego rates) is easy to get but expensive to maintain.

The RV industry depends on the well heeled to keep the sales volume up. Guess what, they aren't all retired truck drivers. Perhaps we should also be looking at the industry set up to down rate the Rv's to allow full size trucks to be driven on normal licenses:Wow1:

End of the day if you down rate a GVM to get additional bums on seats but the vehicle as delivered isn't going to be legal when the tanks are full then you have to wonder at the ethics involved. It's OK for the international commentators to offer their opinions but in the end we have to share the roads / tracks with the vehicles in question so it is a question of being close to home.

I should mention that I have absolutely no relationship, good or bad, with the vehicle in question. This is an issue that applies to many off road vehicles here, be they Toyota, Mitsubishi, Land Rover or any other off road vehicle that is targeted by the after market accessory resellers.

I stand by the fact that these are valid concerns raised by someone who has done their homework (for a change) and not something we should be attempting to sweep under the carpet.

Let the games begin!

Tony

Hi Tony

How's the Mog camper build going?

I agree that the vehicles shouldn't be able to be downsized. I was just stating the current situation. Car license - small payload, truck license - big payload.

I doesn't apply to me either as I have a HC license and can drive just about anything I want. But I can see a small market for the downsized GVM. Not from a license perspective but a rego/ inspection point of view.

If you going for an FG Camper so you can have off road ability and full stand up camper but you travel light and the GVM is kept under 4500kg I believe you should be able to register the vehicle for the cheaper rate. I would prefer this over using some thing like an F truck for the same 4500kg GVM. The FG is designed for 6000kg so would have heaps of reserve strength whereas the F truck is only designed for 4500kg so would be at or near its limits.

But I reckon the license should be the truck one though. I don't know how you'd work it though. Maybe derated trucks, irrespective of GVM, still need truck license but can get cheaper regos?

 

[landy2010]

Let me say again:

Contact the Earth Cruiser folks to get the precise numbers for cargo
capacity and GVM rating. Use this link http://www.earthcruiser.com.au/contact.php

No need to speculate on this subject.

An excellent suggestion. Unfortunately, there seems to be no way of contacting the EarthCruiser people other than by leaving my full personal details on their website. and hoping they will get back to me. The website does not seem to contain, or at least I cannot find in it, the company's physical address, contact phone number or ABN. I am reluctant to give personal details in such circumstances. I can post my questions here, and just hope the EarthCruiser makers read this forum.

----------

G'day,

A few questions are being trashed out in a discussion going on at the http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16093
that would benefit from your kind input.

The EarthCruiser is built on FG84DC Mitsubishi Fuso Canter 4x4 cab light truck chassis. That chassis is complianced by the manufacturer up to the GVM of 6000kg.

You say that the Earth Cruiser is capable of being driven on a car licence. For this to be legal in Australia, the vehicle would need to be downrated to the GVM of 4500kg.

What does it say on the EarthCruiser's compliance plate(s)?
GVM 6000kg, or GVM 4500kg?

The potential problem is that if the plated GVM is 6000kg, then the vehicle cannot be driven on a car licence at all, and requires a LR truck licence at all times in Australia (I can't comment about overseas).

If the plated GVM is 4500kg, then the vehicle has a problem of very low legal payload. Your specs quote the unit dry weight, without accessories, at 4000kg. With 125kg of water (125kg) and 125 litres of diesel (~110kg) on board, the vehicle mass without driver and passenger will be 4235kg, so the legal payload will be just 265kg before the GVM of 4500kg is exceeded.

With a 120kg driver (sigh&#8230 and 70kg passenger on board, the vehicle mass will be 4425kg, leaving just 75kg for all the travel gear, which would just about disqualify the vehicle for its intended purpose: long range, all roads touring.

Given that there is very little payload left legally available when the standard fuel, water, driver and passenger are all aboard, it follows that there is no hope for the vehicle to legally carry accessories (extra fuel and water tanks, bull bar, winch, second spare wheel carrier, wheel and tyre) and remain within the GVM of 4500kg.

I am very impressed with the engineering shown in the photo galleries and described in the specs, and I have no doubt that the vehicle will happily take accessories and payload all the way up to the manufacturer's GVM of 6000kg (provided, of course, that the supplied modified suspension components, wheels and tyres are appropriately load rated and certified accordingly).

However, my concern is legality. With the unit cost in the order of $180k+, I am not inclined to make assumptions only to be possibly proven wrong by a roadside RTA inspector, or worse, to be potentially found an unlicensed driver after an accident. Please note that in all of the above I am not in the slightest critical of the vehicle concept or execution, both of which look excellent. I just need to know whether I need to pay a truck driving school to bring me up to LR licence, and (more difficult) whether I need to persuade my dearly beloved to do the same. Neither is impossible, but I need to know this well before I start doing my sums.

Your comment would be much appreciated.

 

[gait]

All Terrain Motor Homes
316/50 Macquarie Street
Teneriffe, Brisbane.

P.O. Box 206 Strathpine
Queensland 4500 Australia

Kym Bolton 0418 154 042
Lance Gillies 0412 597 085

sales@earthcruiser.com.au

 

[63tlf8]

How's the Mog camper build going? ........If you going for an FG Camper so you can have off road ability and full stand up camper but you travel light and the GVM is kept under 4500kg I believe you should be able to register the vehicle for the cheaper rate. I would prefer this over using some thing like an F truck for the same 4500kg GVM. The FG is designed for 6000kg so would have heaps of reserve strength whereas the F truck is only designed for 4500kg so would be at or near its limits.

But I reckon the license should be the truck one though. I don't know how you'd work it though. Maybe derated trucks, irrespective of GVM, still need truck license but can get cheaper regos?

Hi Mick,

Camper is steaming ahead. Getting close to needing some GRP skills to finish the top. Been sidetracked mounting additional stuff to the MOG chassis and deciding to go Solar with the Camper. Plus the welder has been in and out almost daily with all the little brackets that I just didn't factor in last year. One of those "no gain without pain" periods.

The concept for this Canter Camper is good. HD Chassis with a light payload and all the benefits you mentioned. The thread has probably gone off the rails with people jumping to the conclusion that the truck or manufacturer is in the sights when the issue is the way local GVM requirements in Australia are being interpreted by some in the second stage manufacture and after market. One of my pet peeves is allowing down rated trucks OR 20 - 30 Ft Caravans to be driven by anyone without a check on their competency / ability. You see some pretty scary things in those areas. Solution: an additional class on the car license for tow or light truck up to 4500Kg perhaps. It might happen one day if Government can see a Buck in it somewhere.

I'll drop you some pics in a month or two.

Cheers

Tony