EarthRoamer XV-JP "Northwest Edition"
- Thread starter WhereTheHellIsJames?
- Start date
GR8ADV
Explorer
In the spirit of this being a tremendously informative thread. And one that expands beyond time thru the early years of the portals few ‘industrialists’ to today’s point and pay.
How do you like the terns blinds and shades. in particular the ‘clasp’ . I am trying to decide. They seemed a bit flimsy as compared to the Outlands. But I may be picky in all the wrong areas. I am known to do that. Thanks for your thoughts.
How do you like the terns blinds and shades. in particular the ‘clasp’ . I am trying to decide. They seemed a bit flimsy as compared to the Outlands. But I may be picky in all the wrong areas. I am known to do that. Thanks for your thoughts.
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PaulJensen
Custom Builder
How’s that box of yours holding up ???
GR8ADV
Explorer
Your work was spectacular, and a joy to be inside.
(With some regret) The beast sold earlier in June.
mhiscox
Exp. Leader Emeritus
Geez . . . Paul, Ken and Mike in a discussion about anything is a priori going to result in a metric crap ton of "life experience." (Remember, guys, you are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely. 
)
My take on the Tern windows has four parts. (I get to hijack my own thread; there's more on the topic elsewhere.) First, all credit to the company for making them available. It was a long time ago, but I and others thought about trying to get non-Seitz windows imported--I actually used a window that I bought from an inmate who ponied up to get the minimum order to resell--but the Arctic Terns became available at a great time given the huge increase in both commercial and personal camper builds and Tern Overland made it work. So good on them.
Second, I figure the windows must appeal to most builders because they are everywhere. Admitedly, some of this is from a lack of options. If anyone knows a UK/Euro supplier eager to ship to the US, it'd be a public service to let everyone know, but I consider importation under current conditions impractical. You can, of course, get reasonably-priced acrylic windows off Alibaba or Amazon or from some other sources, but the support and expertise Tern Overland supplies is worth quite a bit. (I've never had the Outbound windows, but they look to be at a different level. Their price list is on the web, so you can calculate whether the improvement is worth the cost increase. And there are other manufactures of glass windows with even bigger prices.)
However, and third, I don't think the Tern windows are any gift to clever engineering. Mine work, and I don't think of them as flimsy. They're nowhere near as flimsy as their Seitz equivalents, for example. In fact, I think they definitely weigh more than they need to. And while I find the up/down and "clasp" mechanisms to be adequate (and better than the rear Seitz window's), they have some weirdities. The little clerestory windows at the top side of the XV-JP have FIVE turn latches, the same as the three-times-larger main window below. And there are only a couple of angles you can open those windows to, and it's the same limited number on the big window, which could fruitfully have many more detents. (I'm close to disabling the big window "catch points" and using a clamp on the strut to allow infinite adjustment.) Still, while they have none of the "special" feel you get out windows costing significantly more, mine don't strike me as flimsy or cheesy.
HOWEVER, and fourth, in my personal situation with the XV-JP, my dislike of the blind/screen cassette is unbounded. The whole cassette is huge and the hinged metal covers for the rollers are more huge-er. The situation is bad on the main window, where the cassette adds significant width and height to the effective dimension of the window and the bottom roller cover sticking out costs a couple of inches of useful counter depth while the top cover makes it impossible to mount the handy over-window tray Paul crafted. I currently have the cassette on, but have also spent time with it off and a nice roller shade replacing it. There are pros and cons to each approach.
It's worse/absurd on the clerestory windows. The depth of the roller covers--no smaller than on the big window--makes the cassette foul the roof angle at both the top and bottom and I cannot install them at all. I've had to make separate magnetic-mounted screens and blackout curtains. You'd be right to think that the measurements for the depth were available, so I should have known the cassettes wouldn't fit. I did know and needed those windows regardless of the cassette being a waste. That said, though, I'm allowed to be grumpy because it didn't have to be that way. The roller covers seem enormous for the space required to house all of about 9 inches of screen/fabric. It's also the case that the cassette for the Seitz windows would have fit; their integrated rollers do not protrude beyond the frame. Overall, the Tern cassette seems about two times thicker and heavier and pretty freakin' clunky.
The whinging about the cassette is admitedly mostly a result of my specific situation, but you should be aware of the problem. While it often won't matter (and some will inset them into a wall so you don't even see the roller covers), there are many instances where the bottom roller cover could be in the way of your sink faucet, cooktop, or the back of your head when you sit. Check carefully. But beyond that, I think the Tern windows are a pretty useful product, even if they're devoid of any of the elegance Paul'd prefer to have in his builds.
)My take on the Tern windows has four parts. (I get to hijack my own thread; there's more on the topic elsewhere.) First, all credit to the company for making them available. It was a long time ago, but I and others thought about trying to get non-Seitz windows imported--I actually used a window that I bought from an inmate who ponied up to get the minimum order to resell--but the Arctic Terns became available at a great time given the huge increase in both commercial and personal camper builds and Tern Overland made it work. So good on them.
Second, I figure the windows must appeal to most builders because they are everywhere. Admitedly, some of this is from a lack of options. If anyone knows a UK/Euro supplier eager to ship to the US, it'd be a public service to let everyone know, but I consider importation under current conditions impractical. You can, of course, get reasonably-priced acrylic windows off Alibaba or Amazon or from some other sources, but the support and expertise Tern Overland supplies is worth quite a bit. (I've never had the Outbound windows, but they look to be at a different level. Their price list is on the web, so you can calculate whether the improvement is worth the cost increase. And there are other manufactures of glass windows with even bigger prices.)
However, and third, I don't think the Tern windows are any gift to clever engineering. Mine work, and I don't think of them as flimsy. They're nowhere near as flimsy as their Seitz equivalents, for example. In fact, I think they definitely weigh more than they need to. And while I find the up/down and "clasp" mechanisms to be adequate (and better than the rear Seitz window's), they have some weirdities. The little clerestory windows at the top side of the XV-JP have FIVE turn latches, the same as the three-times-larger main window below. And there are only a couple of angles you can open those windows to, and it's the same limited number on the big window, which could fruitfully have many more detents. (I'm close to disabling the big window "catch points" and using a clamp on the strut to allow infinite adjustment.) Still, while they have none of the "special" feel you get out windows costing significantly more, mine don't strike me as flimsy or cheesy.
HOWEVER, and fourth, in my personal situation with the XV-JP, my dislike of the blind/screen cassette is unbounded. The whole cassette is huge and the hinged metal covers for the rollers are more huge-er. The situation is bad on the main window, where the cassette adds significant width and height to the effective dimension of the window and the bottom roller cover sticking out costs a couple of inches of useful counter depth while the top cover makes it impossible to mount the handy over-window tray Paul crafted. I currently have the cassette on, but have also spent time with it off and a nice roller shade replacing it. There are pros and cons to each approach.
It's worse/absurd on the clerestory windows. The depth of the roller covers--no smaller than on the big window--makes the cassette foul the roof angle at both the top and bottom and I cannot install them at all. I've had to make separate magnetic-mounted screens and blackout curtains. You'd be right to think that the measurements for the depth were available, so I should have known the cassettes wouldn't fit. I did know and needed those windows regardless of the cassette being a waste. That said, though, I'm allowed to be grumpy because it didn't have to be that way. The roller covers seem enormous for the space required to house all of about 9 inches of screen/fabric. It's also the case that the cassette for the Seitz windows would have fit; their integrated rollers do not protrude beyond the frame. Overall, the Tern cassette seems about two times thicker and heavier and pretty freakin' clunky.
The whinging about the cassette is admitedly mostly a result of my specific situation, but you should be aware of the problem. While it often won't matter (and some will inset them into a wall so you don't even see the roller covers), there are many instances where the bottom roller cover could be in the way of your sink faucet, cooktop, or the back of your head when you sit. Check carefully. But beyond that, I think the Tern windows are a pretty useful product, even if they're devoid of any of the elegance Paul'd prefer to have in his builds.
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As it pertains to point #3 and the struts, they now make a replacement that allows you to open the windows 90*. https://ternoverland.com/90-cam-lock-window-struts-medium-for-400mm-taller-arctic-tern-windows/ Huge improvement.Geez . . . Paul, Ken and Mike in a discussion about anything is a priori going to result in a metric crap ton of "life experience." (Remember, guys, you are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely.
My take on the Tern windows has four parts. (I get to hijack my own thread; there's more on the topic elsewhere.) First, all credit to the company for making them available. It was a long time ago, but I and others thought about trying to get non-Seitz windows imported--I actually used a window that I bought from an inmate who ponied up to get the minimum order to resell--but the Arctic Terns became available at a great time given the huge increase in both commercial and personal camper builds and Tern Overland made it work. So good on them.
Second, I figure the windows must appeal to most builders because they are everywhere. Admitedly, some of this is from a lack of options. If anyone knows a UK/Euro supplier eager to ship to the US, it'd be a public service to let everyone know, but I consider importation under current conditions impractical. You can, of course, get reasonably-priced acrylic windows off Alibaba or Amazon or from some other sources, but the support and expertise Tern Overland supplies is worth quite a bit. (I've never had the Outbound windows, but they look to be at a different level. Their price list is on the web, so you can calculate whether the improvement is worth the cost increase. And there are other manufactures of glass windows with even bigger prices.)
However, and third, I don't think the Tern windows are any gift to clever engineering. Mine work, and I don't think of them as flimsy. They're nowhere near as flimsy as their Seitz equivalents, for example. In fact, I think they definitely weigh more than they need to. And while I find the up/down and "clasp" mechanisms to be adequate (and better than the rear Seitz window's), they have some weirdities. The little clerestory windows at the top side of the XV-JP have FIVE turn latches, the same as the three-times-larger main window below. And there are only a couple of angles you can open those windows to, and it's the same limited number on the big window, which could fruitfully have many more detents. (I'm close to disabling the big window "catch points" and using a clamp on the strut to allow infinite adjustment.) Still, while they have none of the "special" feel you get out windows costing significantly more, mine don't strike me as flimsy or cheesy.
View attachment 887878
HOWEVER, and fourth, in my personal situation with the XV-JP, my dislike of the blind/screen cassette is unbounded. The whole cassette is huge and the hinged metal covers for the rollers are more huge-er. The situation is bad on the main window, where the cassette adds significant width and height to the effective dimension of the window and the bottom roller cover sticking out costs a couple of inches of useful counter depth while the top cover makes it impossible to mount the handy over-window tray Paul crafted. I currently have the cassette on, but have also spent time with it off and a nice roller shade replacing it. There are pros and cons to each approach.
It's worse/absurd on the clerestory windows. The depth of the roller covers--no smaller than on the big window--makes the cassette foul the roof angle at both the top and bottom and I cannot install them at all. I've had to make separate magnetic-mounted screens and blackout curtains. You'd be right to think that the measurements for the depth were available, so I should have known the cassettes wouldn't fit. I did know and needed those windows regardless of the cassette being a waste. That said, though, I'm allowed to be grumpy because it didn't have to be that way. The roller covers seem enormous for the space required to house all of about 9 inches of screen/fabric. It's also the case that the cassette for the Seitz windows would have fit; their integrated rollers do not protrude beyond the frame. Overall, the Tern cassette seems about two times thicker and heavier and pretty freakin' clunky.
The whinging about the cassette is admitedly mostly a result of my specific situation, but you should be aware of the problem. While it often won't matter (and some will inset them into a wall so you don't even see the roller covers), there are many instances where the bottom roller cover could be in the way of your sink faucet, cooktop, or the back of your head when you sit. Check carefully. But beyond that, I think the Tern windows are a pretty useful product, even if they're devoid of any of the elegance Paul'd prefer to have in his builds.
Agree that their cassettes could be slimmer and the embossed pattern in the shade could be eliminated. That is the cheesiest part IMHO.
Some interesting news is that, preparatory to a planned serious daytime off-road use in Moab (with a nighttime condo and many others along to carry recovery gear), we've temporily created the XV-JP LITE version. I've emptied my drawers out, reduced the on-board water down to just the main Rotopak, taken out the microwave (kept the small fridge) and so on. After I did that, I took it to the scales and, after taring out my weight and the petrol, figured out that it now only weighs about 5,700 pounds. I'm sure 5,700 pounds (correctly) strikes people as a lot, but this vehicle was just over 7,000 pounds when it left Earthroamer. And since the biggest and best change is your lightweight fixed roof, you should take a bow.
Typing this from Moab as we pack for the return trip back to Portland.
Will have a trip report put together in the next week or so but here is a teaser…
View attachment IMG_6413.jpeg
The XV-JP can now proudly wear these three stickers
Will leave it up to Mike if he wants them on or not…
mhiscox
Exp. Leader Emeritus
Many thanks to Chris and his copilot/son Liam for taking the XV-JP to what might be considered it's natural habitat. #003 used to get out occasionally doing competent off-roading, and Paul took a couple of adventurey trips, but it's not done anything noteworthy since I got it back. And as my own off-roading days are behind me, I was really glad that it could get used on a proper set of trails by an experienced driver.
Chris has been giving me some reports and photos over the past week and it seems to have done well enough. It did all that was asked of it and didn't break. We'll debrief when he gets home and see what we learned about the current setup. This is the first serious trip with the (comparatively) skinny version and we may need some suspension changes to optimize for the new feathery weight. Regardless, though, I'm really happy and look forward to this sort of thing happening again sometime.
Chris has been giving me some reports and photos over the past week and it seems to have done well enough. It did all that was asked of it and didn't break. We'll debrief when he gets home and see what we learned about the current setup. This is the first serious trip with the (comparatively) skinny version and we may need some suspension changes to optimize for the new feathery weight. Regardless, though, I'm really happy and look forward to this sort of thing happening again sometime.
mk216v
Der Chef der Fahrzeuge
The peanut gallery is looking forward to further trip feedback.
mhiscox
Exp. Leader Emeritus
Greetings, faithful readers. Enjoying your dark and bleak November? Mine is sufficiently boring that I decided it was finally time to write the update for work started when it was warm, bright and sunny.
When we last left our temporary Jeepers, Chris and son Liam, they had just finished some reasonably serious trail work in Moab and had survived, both on the 2500-mile round trip and on their selection of trails. Turns out, though, that the Jeep, while putting in a credible performance, eneded up with some wear and tear that needed dealt with. Which I, sometimes with Chris's help, now have taken care of and we are, suspensionwise, literally better than new.
The change you can see without lying on your back is that the rear AEV 4.5 inch heavy-duty lift it had has been replaced by the 3.5 inch AEV springs/bump stops, so we now have 3.5 inch lifts front and rear. The 4.5 inch HD lift was definitely the right thing when it had the original ER configuration and was probably still the right thing with the pnuematic wedge tent configuration. But after the latest weight-reducing changes, there wasn't enough weight to compress the rear springs enough to have everything level, plus there was less rear compliance than was ideal and it crashed over bumps a bit. So I got the new inch-lower setup (along with new shocks theoretically tuned appropriately) and it seems to be working out great.
(I'm not sure this photo is going to demonstrate how the Jeep is now level, but it is.
)
However, all the bouncing around Moab didn't help the bushings in the (overly?) big and beefy Teraflex control arms I'd left on since the Jeep left Earthroamer in 2008. I suspect that the sheer age of the rubber made the bushings unhappy and loose and this translated to more movement than desired, which further toasted the bushings. Anyway, the rear upper control arm bushings were clearly shot post-Hells Revenge, so I changed them out right after Chris got back. Then one thing lead to another and I eventually decided that there was no reason to think that the rest of the bushings wouldn't succumb to the same issues on some later trip. So I ordered up the proper parts and now we have shiny new AEV/Mopar suspensions front and rear. All new upper and lower control arms, endlinks, rear shocks and springs and steering stabilizer. (There didn't seem to be any reason to change the front springs and shocks as they've had a pretty easy life.)
(And, yes, I do know these two photos are even more useless.)
The rig always rode and handled okay at the front--AEV JK suspensions are, if I've researched this correctly, thought to be better than most on the highway in exchange for less trail flexibility--and the steering is still good and maybe a little sharper. The rear is the bigger change, as the new parts gives it a noticebly plusher ride and having all that new rubber in the system has predictably enhanced compliance over bad pavement while firming up performance. So outside of the cost and effort, all is good and we seem to be back to where we were about 15 years ago.
When we last left our temporary Jeepers, Chris and son Liam, they had just finished some reasonably serious trail work in Moab and had survived, both on the 2500-mile round trip and on their selection of trails. Turns out, though, that the Jeep, while putting in a credible performance, eneded up with some wear and tear that needed dealt with. Which I, sometimes with Chris's help, now have taken care of and we are, suspensionwise, literally better than new.
The change you can see without lying on your back is that the rear AEV 4.5 inch heavy-duty lift it had has been replaced by the 3.5 inch AEV springs/bump stops, so we now have 3.5 inch lifts front and rear. The 4.5 inch HD lift was definitely the right thing when it had the original ER configuration and was probably still the right thing with the pnuematic wedge tent configuration. But after the latest weight-reducing changes, there wasn't enough weight to compress the rear springs enough to have everything level, plus there was less rear compliance than was ideal and it crashed over bumps a bit. So I got the new inch-lower setup (along with new shocks theoretically tuned appropriately) and it seems to be working out great.
(I'm not sure this photo is going to demonstrate how the Jeep is now level, but it is.
)However, all the bouncing around Moab didn't help the bushings in the (overly?) big and beefy Teraflex control arms I'd left on since the Jeep left Earthroamer in 2008. I suspect that the sheer age of the rubber made the bushings unhappy and loose and this translated to more movement than desired, which further toasted the bushings. Anyway, the rear upper control arm bushings were clearly shot post-Hells Revenge, so I changed them out right after Chris got back. Then one thing lead to another and I eventually decided that there was no reason to think that the rest of the bushings wouldn't succumb to the same issues on some later trip. So I ordered up the proper parts and now we have shiny new AEV/Mopar suspensions front and rear. All new upper and lower control arms, endlinks, rear shocks and springs and steering stabilizer. (There didn't seem to be any reason to change the front springs and shocks as they've had a pretty easy life.)
(And, yes, I do know these two photos are even more useless.)
The rig always rode and handled okay at the front--AEV JK suspensions are, if I've researched this correctly, thought to be better than most on the highway in exchange for less trail flexibility--and the steering is still good and maybe a little sharper. The rear is the bigger change, as the new parts gives it a noticebly plusher ride and having all that new rubber in the system has predictably enhanced compliance over bad pavement while firming up performance. So outside of the cost and effort, all is good and we seem to be back to where we were about 15 years ago.
mhiscox
Exp. Leader Emeritus
Here's a much better photo illustrating the now-level, newly-suspended XV-JP. All seems to be in order.
(I took this photo right after the previous post, but given that I have no memory anymore, it apparently takes a month to cope with complex stuff like this. )
And happy holidays to all.
(I took this photo right after the previous post, but given that I have no memory anymore, it apparently takes a month to cope with complex stuff like this.
)And happy holidays to all.
PaulJensen
Custom Builder
I'm loving it... Can I have it back...???...Here's a much better photo illustrating the now-level, newly-suspended XV-JP. All seems to be in order.
View attachment 904000
(I took this photo right after the previous post, but given that I have no memory anymore, it apparently takes a month to cope with complex stuff like this.
And happy holidays to all.
mhiscox
Exp. Leader Emeritus
Umm . . . Sure. It's mostly just sitting here. And you already built most of the hard parts and it'd be fun to watch you do a renewal to your usual impressive standard.
But you'd have to promise to take numerous interesting places. And it'll be hard to work around my conviction that it's working out really well for just one person who's about 5' 11" or less (which, faithful readers, isn't the impressively tall Paul).
Good to know of your interest, though. Next fall will be our 15th year as a dedicated team of . . . whatevers.
It's mostly just sitting here. And you already built most of the hard parts and it'd be fun to watch you do a renewal to your usual impressive standard.But you'd have to promise to take numerous interesting places. And it'll be hard to work around my conviction that it's working out really well for just one person who's about 5' 11" or less (which, faithful readers, isn't the impressively tall Paul).
Good to know of your interest, though. Next fall will be our 15th year as a dedicated team of . . . whatevers.
PaulJensen
Custom Builder
What a rig...!!!.. Maybe the coolest Jeep ever...Umm . . . Sure.
But you'd have to promise to take numerous interesting places. And it'll be hard to work around my conviction that it's working out really well for just one person who's about 5' 11" or less (which, faithful readers, isn't the impressively tall Paul).
Good to know of your interest, though. Next fall will be our 15th year as a dedicated team of . . . whatevers.
Love you brother...!!!... Happy holidays....
We are in Mexico for a couple weeks enjoying the weather, the food and the locals...
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