Eco-Roamer - F650 based Expedition Vehicle

[ThomD]

Looking Good!

So many questions.

Seitz windows? How did you pick those? Their web site makes it look like they do not normally sell them in the US.

Frame design - Did you do the details on the frame structure (number of up rights, material, etc) or did the fabricator work out the details from your basic dismensions?

I'm interested in how you deal with the seams on the skin. Will you use some sort of mechanical fastener/channel or simply form butt joints with sealant?

What's the frame weigh without the skin?

How dent resistant is the .02" aluminum? Is thermal expansion an issue at that scale with the skin? Will the adhesive give a little?

What are your plans for the roof support?

 

[boblynch]

Jay it looks great. You guys must be very excited to see it come together after all the research and time spent.

Now that it's roughed in what are the overall dimensions of the rig HxWxL?

 

[haven]

Jay,

I'm looking forward to your report about chassis flex with full camper on board. The camper may be twisted some when the truck chassis follows uneven terrain. To my eye, this photo of yours shows the beams that form the camper frame are still being twisted quite a bit.

Doubting Thomas (otherwise known as Chip Haven)

 

[opie]

Jay, thats looking pretty sweet.

Is it going to be finished by this weekend 100%?

 

[jayshapiro]

Thanks

Thanks Guys,
Great feedback as usual...

In answer to some of your comments / questions:

THIS WEEKEND - We will have the shell ready with frame, skin, doors and windows. We'll be sleeping on mattresses on the floor, and cooking on the BBQ. No electrical or plumbing yet, in fact no furniture... but it will be a great first chance to take it out with the 4x4 conversion and the shell. Here's where we put all the theories to the test and discover how wrong we were!

CHASSIS FLEX - Chip, (AKAoubting Dorothy) In our last test with the rough 'cube' the deflection between the far corners was about 2". I'm as curious as you to see how that "measures up" with the actual shell on it. I'd ask that whoever is driving on the trail behind me at the UP caravan to please bring their laser guide, and call me if they notice my camper being ripped off the chassis!

DIMENSIONS - Bob here's how it is now looking:
The total width was designed to be 95.5" so I could ship the truck on a shipping pallette. Then somebody much more observant than I, noticed that my new Meritor front axle is actually 101" wide, so what was the point? We expanded the camper then to 101" to match the widest point.

The height remains below the 13ft magic limit. We've build it to be about 12'4", but then there are the solar panels and vents on top of that. Overall, we'll still be below 13ft, but just.

The length is the one that has changed the most. My 'original' designs called for a 25ft camper. Then I realized that was WAY too big and after months and months of juggling components, we managed to get the floor plan down to 17ft. (I'll post it up someday soon) - Then I went and ruined all that by adding an 18" vestibule on the back. Now the "camper" ends with a false wall in the back (with a large window and door) then there is the vestibule area which holds a spare tire, bikes and 2 pre-filter water tanks. Then the actual rear wall has a ramp door that comes down to 90 degrees and has a fiamma awning and tent over it, so it essentially becomes another "room" for the camper during nice weather.

...oh, and yes, we are getting VERY excited!

Jay.

 

[opie]

Jay, itll be neat to see it finished or not!!

 

[CapelConcepts]

Hi,
thanks for the great question, it's something I was trying to figure out as well.

There's a couple of key points that I think lead to the answer:

1 - This truck has solid axles both front and rear, and leaf springs up front while the rear is exclusively airbags. So you don't get a whole lot of articulation on a truck of this size. Nothing like my Jeep. Which means when you go over something with one wheel, the entire axle is going to want to tilt.

2 - The wheel base is 250", and the basic design is still two frame rails spaced fairly narrowly apart. You would need a VERY substantial cage to try to stiffen that up to stop the twist.

3 - The big problem with using the camper box as that 'cage' is that it tranfers all the stresses of the twist into the body, which does not do well on more fragile parts like windows and furniture. That's the whole basis of the dynamic body mount, which allows the frame to do what it needs to do, while isolating the camper body.

There's been a lot of talk about this topic on the forum, with some very helpful thoughts and ideas from people like: joaquimsuave, robthebrit, chip haven and charlie aarons. Do a search around and you'll find some great info!

Cheers,
Jay.

Thanks for the explanation Jay. I do see the reasoning behind the dynamic body mounts...it just goes against the vehicle control theories that I'm used to. The fact that there is an undampened motion/pivot in the vehicle is just different than the train of thought on smaller vehicles. It obviously works! It will be interesting to see how your mounting system works versus the "traditional" three and four point mountings.

 

[CapelConcepts]

Thanks Guys,
Great feedback as usual...

In answer to some of your comments / questions:

THIS WEEKEND - We will have the shell ready with frame, skin, doors and windows. We'll be sleeping on mattresses on the floor, and cooking on the BBQ. No electrical or plumbing yet, in fact no furniture... but it will be a great first chance to take it out with the 4x4 conversion and the shell. Here's where we put all the theories to the test and discover how wrong we were!

CHASSIS FLEX - Chip, (AKAoubting Dorothy) In our last test with the rough 'cube' the deflection between the far corners was about 2". I'm as curious as you to see how that "measures up" with the actual shell on it. I'd ask that whoever is driving on the trail behind me at the UP caravan to please bring their laser guide, and call me if they notice my camper being ripped off the chassis!

DIMENSIONS - Bob here's how it is now looking:
The total width was designed to be 95.5" so I could ship the truck on a shipping pallette. Then somebody much more observant than I, noticed that my new Meritor front axle is actually 101" wide, so what was the point? We expanded the camper then to 101" to match the widest point.

The height remains below the 13ft magic limit. We've build it to be about 12'4", but then there are the solar panels and vents on top of that. Overall, we'll still be below 13ft, but just.

The length is the one that has changed the most. My 'original' designs called for a 25ft camper. Then I realized that was WAY too big and after months and months of juggling components, we managed to get the floor plan down to 17ft. (I'll post it up someday soon) - Then I went and ruined all that by adding an 18" vestibule on the back. Now the "camper" ends with a false wall in the back (with a large window and door) then there is the vestibule area which holds a spare tire, bikes and 2 pre-filter water tanks. Then the actual rear wall has a ramp door that comes down to 90 degrees and has a fiamma awning and tent over it, so it essentially becomes another "room" for the camper during nice weather.

...oh, and yes, we are getting VERY excited!

Jay.

Good luck on your test run this weekend. As for "testing your theories and discovering wrong you were", I don't think it's possible to be wrong while testing....that's what testing is for! As one of my favorite boss' used to tell me, Do something even if it's wrong!!!

I really like the vestibule idea! I saw that on another "home built" rig and thought it was the greatest thing! That is definitely going into my own plan for my rig!

Thanks again for taking the time to share this with all of us!

 

[jayshapiro]

Gimme some skin...

Hi guys,

We're down to less than 2 days from our pick-up date. Here's what it looked like this past weekend. The Alucobond has now been applied:

The stairs look very low in the picture, but they are still more than 24" off the ground. We will take a look at it on the Michigan trip, and we'll decide if we want to possibly raise it up by one step still.

The white parts you see (the door, and the bed tent trim) will be fixed to match the rest of the truck. We're going to glue some spare alucobond on them.

The departure angle has been reduced (due to the vestibule) from 34 degrees, down to 25 degrees. I had really wanted to keep it at 30+ degrees, but at the same time I think the benefits of the vestibule will be worth it.

Also, you can see some of the interior shots of the cab here. I'll take more when we actually get there:

Custom built centre console with CB Radio and switches for all the aux lights.

Overhead console stolen from a Ford Excursion, and then modified to hold the VHF radio face. The from unit will be used for a couple of extra engine guages. (it's on my "to-do" list...)

The roof is now on the camper, and the rear wall will be attached tomorrow.

To answer some of the questions from the past couple of days:

1 - We are using an aluminum rounded 90' edge extrusion around the joints which holds it all together and keeps it water tight. I'll take some pics of it and upload them next week.

2 - We've been involved in every inch of the design, literally shifting items an inch here or there to make room for whatever next component was conflicting with it. Ultimately, we've relied on Jeff's (our engineer) recommendations for structural decisions.

The kids "off-roading" car seats arrived yesterday. They are the Recaro Signo's that we bought from EliteCarSeats.com - I have to say that they were one of the best online shopping experiences I've ever had. I'll let you know how the seats are once we've put a couple of little bums in them.

Looking forward to finally taking the truck up to the U.P. this week. See you guys there...

Jay.

 

[ThomD]

:clapsmile

In the words of a certain kitty, 'Very nice!"

 

[upcruiser]

Congrats Jay! I can't wait to see this thing in action this weekend. :lurk:

 

[DiploStrat]

Late to the party

Congratulations on such a monster project.

A thought. I have never shipped a vehicle without considerable theft/damage; have you considered a hard door between the camper and cab to reduce the chances of theft. (The cab is usually a loss as you must leave it open.)

Best wishes.

 

[jayshapiro]

Double doors

Congratulations on such a monster project.

A thought. I have never shipped a vehicle without considerable theft/damage. have you considered a hard door between the camper and cab to reduce the chances of theft. (The cab is usually a loss as you must leave it open.)

You're absolutely right. We do have a hard door between the cab and camper, which serves double duty as the bathroom door. (one door, two openings)

---------------

We picked up the truck yesterday and it is AMAZING! After so many years of dreaming, scheming and drawing you can't imagine what it's like to actually sit in it as a real 'unit' for the very first time.

We're on our way up to Marquette. See some of you there!

Jay.

 

[DiploStrat]

(one door, two openings)

Congratulations:

-- On clever planning (one door, two uses), and,

-- Actually getting in the beast.

Did you do this all by remote control from Singapore? If so, bagus sekali and you're a braver soul than I!

 

[Lynn]

Congratulations:

-- On clever planning (one door, two uses), and,

-- Actually getting in the beast.

Did you do this all by remote control from Singapore? If so, bagus sekali and you're a braver soul than I!

DiploStrat,

Welcome to the site! How 'bout an intro thread? A quick check of your web site shows you have a lot to share.