Expedition Security: Firearm Recommendations and Suggestions

[FAW3]

"...but I am interested in what you guys had to share as far as choosing/using/transporting a hand gun".

Choosing and using:

Since you have the Mossburg shotgun...you have the long gun aspect already filled. The range of available shell loadings, barrels, stocks and the like that can be put on a standard pump shotgun make it about the most versatile low cost firearm platform available. Ammo is available about everywhere, and at costs that support practice. From dove to bear, skeet to self defense...it will work. Learn and master it and it will never fail you. Only shortcomings: big to carry, hard to conceal. Suggestions: get a sling.

A handgun...although they can be used for many tasks...the down and dirty were talking about in this discussion is personal defense, ease of carry, and potential for concealment. Actual effective defensive use of a handgun requires a level of competence that is much harder to achieve than with a long firearm. With that being said and focusing on the criteria of a multi-use handgun to carry when exploring/camping/boating, etc. I would get a practical defensive caliber in a handgun type that can do many things at a reasonable cost for weapon and ammo, and is easy to learn to shoot. A revolver in .38 S&W/.357 or even a larger caliber .44special/.44mag (explanation: a .357 can shoot hot hunting loads...or milder .38 ammo...same as the .44 special/.44 mag. set-up - sort of a dual use handgun). Get a stainless steel model. I am not discounting semi-autos...but the focus here is practical expedition type use. A couple of hundred bucks and you'll have a easy to learn, cheap to practice, effective weapon platform. Get a good quality belt carry holster, Galco, Safariland, Banchi...not some "fits all POC" and a suitable belt. Time to start picking clothes that allow you to carry...tee and gym shorts don't work.

Transport/Security:

One trick to locking a pump up is of course to run a cable lock through the open action and secure it to a other object.

In my cars & RV, I have a push button lock boxes. All the same type, all the same combination.

Last comment...become skilled, know the law, and be prepared - to walk away, do almost anything to defuse a conflict...live and let live - even creeps, jerks and two legged predators have rights...and never display or use a firearm toward another person unless it is your last resort - there will be personal, financial and legal consequences that you will be dealing with for several years. But given all the above...I STILL CHERISH MY RIGHT UNDER LAW TO DEFEND MYSELF AND MY FAMILY - and those who fail to see the "what if's" I pray never find out what can lurk in the shadows of the human race.

 

[tmac]

I wonder what a person might be afraid of that makes them carry a gun?


Bandits? Um do we have bandits in the USA?
Leave the guns at home and or take them hunting.

Why yes............ yes we do. They come across the southern border that I happen to live near. I explore with others the southern desert areas here in Arizona and you never know what you may come across.
I carry for personal protection and I hope that I never need to use it, but it is there and no I won't leave it at home.

 

[tac]

yay...guns.....but be responsible

first off let me say hi to everyone,new to the site here.

so i saw this post and decided to add my 2cents in...lol.first and formost id like to touch on gun laws,they will vary state to state and sometimes they may change from county to county in your own state..so where do you find the laws for your area start with a call to your local or state police,visit your local gun store,but never ever listen to the advice of your buddies or the internet....doin the wrong thing with a gun on ill advice from the internet or your friend could get you killed,thrown in jail ect...now as far as getting a permit this too will change from state to state..some states you will have 0 chance of getting 1 and some you wont have any permits and then you have shall issue state these states will give you a permit as long as your background checks out,and as far as i know you must follow your states law when carrying a gun in the park systems...now what to carry and why....this is up2 you, my suggestion is find a shooting range and rent different guns till you find 1 that fits you (you pick your gun ,your gonna shoot it) also i suggest you take a tactical shooting class rather than just a range lane shooting at paper...why...well tactical shooting is what your gonna be doin if you pull that gun,not target shooting,tactical classes are gonna teach you to clear jams in your guns,reloads,multi threat attacks ect.....think about it if animals are why your taking the gun in the woods take bear mace. also most animal attacks happen when you accidently walk up on a bear or what have you and you and the critter are both suprised and the critter will bolt or attack....the bear mace easy point and spray and yes it does work,now if the bear or other critter is on you can you get to the gun to even use it?same applies to cougers..(not the older ladies who like the young guys..lol)bear spray...1st and only if you need too.....and thats pretty much it for critters that you need to worry about.now,as for people you may come accross is another story...along the southern border of the USA you got drug smugglers,human trafficers ect.and in national parks all over the US you got ppl growing weed and they will defend the crops they are paid to grow and protect and if you find 1 of these grows watch for bobby traps. you also just got odd ppl out on the trails...lol.so what to carry,well ill start with glocks,i love all of mine but not a great trail gun for the critters and ALL semi-autos jam some just less than others and glocks got the safty on the trigger so this may not be the best for someone new to guns,now the revolver great for the outdoors 357mag is my choice bc i can load it with 357 or 38 and i can use snake shot in revolver which you cant in semi. shotgun or rifle.....well why are you hunting,if your just hiking and camping a handgun is fine if your in grizzly territory bear mace and at min .357mag or bigger..44,480,454,500mag ect. if you along that southern border and the gun is for protection against ppl ,well for the newbie to guns and your taking a rifle/shotgun take the shotgun easy to aim and the sound of a pump shotgun just cocking will send ppl runnin,easy to aim and avail with 18inch barrels and extended mags and run from 300-1000s....mossburg or remington are great choices,if you are thinking rifle well i like stag arms,rock river ARs but with these you will attract alot of attention of everyone cuz they are in short and plain terms an assult rifle,you may just want to get a good ol lever action rifle(note:some lever action rifles use handgun rounds so if you got a 45 revolver on your hip and a 45 rifle strapped to your pack your set 1 gun breaks still got 1 left and extra ammo)..get a good gun(used police glocks run 300-350,new glock 500plus, revolvers ruger,s&w,300plus)just do your reserch before you buy,and really for animals bear spray works and it works great,i keep mine on a holster on my left backpack strap and gun on my right hip and of course my knife too..i hope in some way this helps someone...please feel free to ask me questions

 

[dwh]

I'm a gorilla. I can, and have, shot at skeet with a 12 ga. pump - one handed with a pistol grip. (And yes, I broke the clays. And yes, they were in the air. ) I can also pop off 240 gr. .44 mag all day long one handed.

Having said that, I carry one of these in plain view as a camp gun in a custom made leather flap holster with molded sight channel. Ruger MKII Govt. Target, 7" bull barrel in stainless:

10 rounds of .22LR hollow point does most things I need a gun for out in the boonies. (99.9% of the time it just gets used for plinking.) I have a couple of spare mags, but they almost never get used. It's capable of shooting 1" groups at 50 yds once it's warmed up - if I could hold it steady enough. I can't. Tends to drift a hair toward 10 o'clock as it warms up when fired several times from a cold start. I just aim the first couple shots a hair toward 4 o'clock and I'm in the ballpark. I looked at the factory bench test targets of half a dozen of these before I picked mine.

I'm a southpaw so it hangs under the left hand.


Occasionally, I'll reach into one of my right hand pockets and find one of these little bad boys. S&W Model 40, 5-round .38 DA only with grip safety:

BLOODY LOUD and has more of a kick than most people expect - the .38 is a punchy little cartridge and does a perfectly adequate job of making holes in things. DA only is a bit of a pain at first, but once you have the coordination to operate the trigger finger independently from any other muscles, it's easy. I can usually get all 5 in the 10 ring on a silhouette target at 25', rapid fire, right-handed, Weaver stance. I can hold it in my hand without anyone noticing, which I like a lot. If I don't need to use it, I can just tuck it away with no one the wiser. If I do need it, the first clue anyone has that I have it is when it goes BOOM!

Another thing I really like about it is that it can be wrapped in a baggie and hidden in various places on any truck frame where it would take a very thorough search to find it.

I would say I never leave home without it, but I'll take the 5th instead.

 

[ssssnake529]

Get a small semi-auto carbine in 9mm or 45.

Ruger makes a nice 9mm carbine. Compact, easy to shoot, more accurate than a pistol.

 

[bob91yj]

I'm on the same page as "tac".

I'm not a gun guy by any stretch, but after being trapped in a pup tent with a bear sniffing it while camped at Rubicon Springs a few years back, I decided that I needed more security than a 3-D Mag Lite offered.

We now carry a stainless steel Ruger .357 with a 4" barrel as a trail gun. I told the owner at my local gunshop what I needed. Stupid simple, easy to take care of, reliable without the best of care in a desert environment.

I've also had a Marlin 1894 Cowboy lever action rifle on order forever, also in .357 caliber. No particular need for the long gun, I've just always wanted one. Both guns are about as stupid reliable as you can get, and easy enough for a novice owner like myself and my wife to use.

 

[kelub]

This might be my first post on this site... I've been lurking for a good while now, though, and have thoroughly enjoyed the knowledge and maturity from all members. I thought I'd give an opinion, as well as tell a story.

I carry a Glock 23 .40cal. I used to carry an HK USP Compact, loved it, but I didn't like the hammer or the external safety that much. I want to either carry chambered and ready to go, or unchambered (for safety when it's not directly on my person). The .40 caliber is a good mix of stopping power and quantity of bullets, and the glock is not only reliable (I also tend to not clean my guns as often as recommended) but inexpensive to customize/accessorize (the HK extra magazines were $60-$100!!!!). For home defense, I primarily have a 12 gauge that I hope to get the shorter barrel for next month (currently 28", feels like I'm ready to go joust; getting the 18.5"). I'd like to carry the shotgun with me on longer journeys - for example, a planned trip to Big Bend later in the year.

Why carry? Let me share an experience.

Several years ago, my wife, my (at the time) 4-year old and 6 month old daughters, and I were traveling to Georgia to visit relatives. We left late, so we planned to stop at a cheap motel off the highway, sleep, and be on our way early the next morning. We stopped at the Mississipi/Alabama border. Pulling up to our room, I notice that we are in a horseshoe: to the east is a swimming pool, while to the north and west are rooms. Our room is in the building on the north. There were two large pickup trucks parked perpendicular to each other right outside our room, and our relatively small car was totally out of view from our room.

While unpacking the car, I notice a white Chevy Caprice circling the area several times. It would sometimes stop and watch while we unpacked. Now, this was around midnight, so it was relatively deserted outside. There was one other person up on the 2nd floor walking around, but they were minding their own business. The car was blasting loud music, and would sometimes pull to the other side of the western building of the motel and park. I could hear them and was able to discern a general idea of where they were based on the music. At some point during this, I shifted my weapon from small-of-back to directly in front, in my waist band, covered up by my shirt.

After getting the car unpacked, I went out to try and find a better place to park. Obviously I noticed that we were being watched, and at that point was *convinced* the car was going to be gone by the morning. I had originally parked up by the western building, next to one of the trucks. I called my wife from my cell to hers, and had her look out the window to tell me when she could see the car. I backed the car up into a spot directly behind me, with the pool behind the car.

As soon as I put the car in park, the Caprice flew into the parking area, directly in front of me, forming a T. They then backed up slightly at an angle, so that the back of their car was facing the pool, and the back door was closer to me. The back door of the Caprice opened, and I saw inside the car: three guys, all around 16-19, all wearing *all blue*. Hats, shorts, t-shirts, were all blue, on all three (well, ok: the guy in the back was dressed that way. The guys in the front were wearing blue hats and t-shirts, so I assume blue shorts as well.) I was still inside the car, on the phone with my wife: phone in left hand, elbow on the door, right hand on the handle of the door, prepared to throw the door open with as much force as I could. The guy in the back seat took a step out of the car towards me, stops, looks back in the car, gets back in, and they drive off. The situation took less than 30 seconds. We packed up the car in record speed and got out of Dodge. (We were able to get a refund on the motel, and the clerk told me that the police had been called twice on those guys, but had not yet come out.)

So... what's the point? The guys got out of there and I never had to use my gun, right? Well... that was by the grace of God, period. Point is, I have the keys to the room that my wife and two young daughters are in. I have no idea what the intentions of these guys are. I can't assume they "just" wanted the car--if that's the case, why not wait until I go inside? I am obligated, as husband and father, to protect them.

I can tell you that it seemed like time stopped, or at least went into slow motion. I played through multiple scenarios, and had already decided who I was shooting when, and what to do if <X> happened, etc, all in the time it took for that young man to step out of the car, rethink his actions, and get back in.

I think they thought I was oblivious to them, and they'd catch me by surprise. When he stepped out of the car, I was looking him right in the face, and we made eye contact. I did not fold, cower, or in any way give off that they were intimidating me, and I have to think that was key in everyone walking away.

My in-laws, who were always iffy on me owning a gun with the kids, when we told them what happened... the first thing they said was "Thank God you had a gun." Had the situation escalated, I/we may not have survived. 1-on-3, not good odds. I certainly didn't want it to get to that. But I definitely had a better chance of survival with one than without one, and I will never travel without one.

Sorry to be so long, but I do think it's worth sharing a real-world experience. Often in these conversations we talk in hypotheticals, and I wanted to share *exactly* why I choose to carry a gun.

 

[john101477]

As has been stated by others the 45acp is also my fave. I carry a taurus PT145, which is a smaller pistol based off the 24/7 pistol instead of the Millennium Pro frame which it gets it's name from.
As Scott stated the 12 gauge pump speaks a universal language. Although I have a cpl my rifles see far more action

 

[oldmant]

I would love to see this stay a technical discussion and not a political ( why do you need a gun ) conversation.

My travel consists of local CO trails.


I carry bear spray and a 12ga or 9mm when out on the trail. For bear country ill have my spray and my 12ga SLP with slugs just in case. For areas with more human traffic and less large wildlife ill carry a XDm in 9mm. I like capacity. 7 rounds of 12ga slugs and 20 rounds of 9mm is great. I dont want to carry a bunch of extra rounds or magazines.

I have an AR but it just dosent seem to fit the environment when doing the trips I do.

It all depends on the amount of risk your willing to take. Some, for me, is fine but im not going to be careless by traveling to remote areas without reasonable protection.

 

[Caoboy]

I carry my Glock 30 with me, always, whenever I'm out camping. I'm hesitant to get a CCW but my county ( stanislaus) is getting relatively 'easy' to get approved in. California isn't so bad if you know your rights through the laws we have. www.calguns.net is a great forum to read on and find out all the info you'll ever need.

I have a .45, and it's a compact, because

A) I got a good deal on it
B) Holds 10 rounds (and if you need more, you probably need a swat team too)
C) light and easy to shoot (for me)


I'm not big. I'm only 5/8" and weigh 160 when I'm full. .45 is not necessarily cheap, but when the max you can have here is 10 rounds, I'm going with the biggest caliber I can get, that is still relatively easy to find in stores.

9mm is a hot, fast round, and fun to shoot, very easy to shoot, and glocks are cheap and reliable..

I wouldn't go anything smaller than 9mm, 380 is just as expensive as .45, so there's no point in that unless you are getting a small light carry gun as a back up.

38spl is fun to shoot, but if you get a revolver, get one that is a .357mag so you can shoot both 38spl and 357mag.

.44mag is fun to shoot.

.22 is always cheap and if you are on BLM and know a place to shoot, best to teach new people with it. I have a Ruger 22/45 that I always spend the most time shooting at the range with, just because it's cheap, easy, and soft on the hands.

That's all the experience I have... I have rifles as well, but those don't go camping with me. Maybe if we are on BLM areas they will.

 

[java]

for budget, i love my hi-point. new for ~$150 no frills, basic as can be and goes bang. bought mine new, have 600+ rounds thru it with no probs at all.
i didnt have a big budget, and didnt need something fancy. fits my needs great. left me more money for ammo to practice with, this is EXTREMELY important no matter waht you choose to purchase.

 

[haven]

Thanks for this thoughtful discussion.

I'd like to reiterate the point made by others: Most countries outside USA will not allow you to import a handgun. The penalty for trying to sneak one through is severe. Before traveling, check carefully with the consular representatives of the country you plan to visit about the possibility of traveling with a firearm of any type.

 

[thospb]

My vote is for the 1911, but only because that is what I have carried for 15 years. The most important varieable is what is comfortable to you and what you can hit with. Other things to consider is what is legal where you intend to travel IE: handguns are strictly verboten in Canada or Mexico. The 12 gauge pump is the sound of authority recognized 'round the world.

 

[TomMonkey]

Or try making friends with them, not all gangsters are bad people!

Seriously? You got to be kidding me.

 

[Jeremy Fisher]

First I gotta say...check local laws regarding carrying/transporting weapons. You will find CA isn't very friendly on the matter.

But that aside, I continue to fail to see the appeal of a 9mm. The only advantage it has is the capacity (number of bullets) in a standard size frame. The problem is that the projectile travels too fast. There is a reason law enforcement agencies and the military are going BACK to the .45 acp after falling into the "more bullets is better" trap back in the 90's. It has to do with the amount of energy that the projectile will transfer into the target. A small diameter, fast moving, light weight projectile simply will not transfer as much energy as a larger diameter, slower moving, heavier projectile will. Why? Because the 9mm has a tendancy to over penetrate (read: come out the back side) of the target. The .45 isn't as likely to do this. (can you tell I'm a fan of the .45 acp?)

There are several rounds inbetween the 9 and the .45 that have proven a good compromise. Look into the .40 s&w, and the .357 sig. The thing I don't like about the .40, is that with it's really high chamber pressure, it developes one hell of a recoil considering it's size. This makes it harder to control for people who don't go out shooting very often (myself included). I don't recall if I have ever shot a .357 sig or not.....of course, I haven't really followed the firearms industry in....heck.....8 or 9 years...there may be more options out there that are suitable.....

But all things ballistically aside...you should be able to control the weapon of your choice. It doesnt' matter how many bullets it holds, or how much energy each of those bullets can transfer to it's target if you can't hit the target. I strongly suggest you find a local firing range that rents guns (many do...er...at least they used to), so you can "test drive" them. Find a model and calibre that you can control, and offers the ballistics you like, and go for it. Don't get caught up in the WWW trap of "I have such and such of a gun and it's the best there ever was and anyone who thinks differently is an idiot". Much like a car/truck/SUV, or a new mattress, or a new dog....what is right for one person may or may not be right for you.

Any FMJ round will over penetrate. If you get the right 9mm round however, they don't have any over penetration issues.

And don't forget your basic laws of physics, you make much more energy with speed than you do with mass. Therefore, a faster round will always be more mass-efficient than a slower round. That is, if you can stop it inside of the target, which many 9mm rounds can do.

I'm not arguing that the 9mm is the best round ever, just that it is a very practical, very effective round. If I had to survive off of only three firearms, they would be: a 12 awg shotgun, 9mm glock, and a .22 rifle