Douglas S.
Adventurer
I'm not a fan of turning left across traffice when there are vehicles in the oncoming lane also turning left. I don't really notice it anymore though. I feel strange driving LHD vehicles now.
ExPo Project: 1991 Land Cruiser Prado SX (LJ78)
- Thread starter Scott Brady
- Start date
I'm not a fan of turning left across traffice when there are vehicles in the oncoming lane also turning left. I don't really notice it anymore though. I feel strange driving LHD vehicles now.
RMP&O
Expedition Leader
Wow that is one super clean truck!! Almost looks brand new! Good find on this one. You say on the website interior is like a combo of 70-series and 80-series. Looks more like 70-series and 60-series top me. Those outside mirrors look exactly like FJ62's. The truck to me looks like a 70-series, 60-series combo with a mini 80-series chassis and a Hilux engine!
A buddy of mine in Panama has/had the exact same truck. He hated it because it was full of rust and failing apart. It was in very poor condition all over, body shot, most doors didn't even open anymore, interior trashed and many electrical not working and it leaked oil from every single place it could leak oil from! I had seen these trucks before traveling but had not really been around them much and didn't know much about them. We (my buddy & I) stood around it picking the brain of Tapage (David aka Panama 4x4 club founder) and he explained to us this truck is not very ideal because of it's light duty and heavier weight then say a Hilux. He also explained they are know for some problems which it appears you have already done your homework on.
Now having said all that....I think you have a very nice truck in this one. There is definitely a number of things you can do to it to make it better for off-roading & overlanding. I do believe that is an 8" front axle in it correct? If so, as somebody mentioned you could fit an e-locker or a large variety of other Toyota 8" front axle mods. I can't tell from the pics but it appears to be a high pinion 8". Is it the same width as an 80-series front axle? The auto hubs, it looks like you plan to dump them for manuals. Good plan. Did you know the 80-series can be converted to manual Asian 9.5" axle hubs? All that has to be done is a groove machined into the outer axle stub shaft. I would think it would be the same for this truck.
I think the 1050lb payload is a very generous on Toyota's part. Load 1000lbs+ into this truck and it is going to suffer. I think the frame is up for the task as well as the 5spd and t-case. Isn't the R150F the same as the 5spd put in the HZJ80's? If it was me, I would buff up the frame with some plating here and there simply because I bet you will be close to 6,000lbs if you deck this thing out for overlanding. A heavy duty clutch would also be in order, look at the Excedy Safari Tuff. I would also look into 80-series axle mods, such as fitting a FF rear axle. If the front axle is the same as an 80-series (ie HP 8") I would look into upgrading the steering and knuckles. I think the tie rod behind the axle as well as the knuckles is your weak link in the front. The knuckle design is simply not as strong as some other models, lock it and load down the truck and it will be an even weaker link. The HP though is stronger then your standard low pinion 8" front, especially the 3rd member. However, if it is the same axle as the 80-series you have options to upgrade it. Going to a crossover steering set up will also greatly strengthen it compared to the tie rod behind the axle. It also removes the tie rod from behind the axle allowing for much more clearance and taking full advantage of the high pinion. Here is a link to a knuckle upgrade available for the 80-series 8" which also converts it to crossover steering.
http://hellfirefabworks.com/fj80hsu/
Slee also makes a kit...
http://sleeoffroad.com/products/products_steering_main.htm
I have nothing against Slee or that kit, I think Slee makes some awesome products but I got to say the Hellfire kit is much better and gives you a lot more bang for your buck.
I know you are not big on mods, especially to the engine but I would really look long and hard at an intercooler. You could do either top mount with a scoop or a bigger front mount. You will gain some benefit power wise from either but the main benefit is lower EGTs which in turn means longer engine life. I would also look at doing an external oil cooler. This will also really help prolong engine life. If you are going to up boost, IMHO these two mods are a must. You can also up injector pop pressure to gain some benefits and of course if you up boost up fuel. A free flowing exhaust is best, don't use headers they are a waste on a diesel. Best exhaust would be a straight pipe believe it or not but a nice free flowing muffler is good too. 2.5" pipe seems about right. I realize the want to keep it fairly stock but in this day and age there are proven mods like I mention that will do nothing to shorten engine life or reliability, in fact they will improve it if done right.
Any ways, if it was me I would look into how much of the axles are the same as an 80-series, same for the suspension. If coils, links, panhards, ect are the same as 80-series I would use Slee stuff. I would also upgrade the rear axle to a FF, if you plan to use it for overland trips anyways. I can't imagine swapping in a rear FF 80-series will be all that hard, it is just going to come down to width of the axle. If you didn't go with a FF rear perhaps just some Polyperformance chromoly rear shafts? It is all going to come down to if the axle is the same as a 60 or 80-series. If they are, it is a snap to upgrade, if not it will be much harder and parts will have to likely be sourced from Australia. That is unless you just swapped in some 80-series axles!
I would finish off the axles with some Longfields and the Hellfire knuckles plus crossover steering conversion. These may all sound like mods for off-roading and they are but they are also mods to give much increased strength. Which I feel in turn is super important on a heavily loaded overland truck that will be doing long trips be it on road or off. It looks like you are doing some mods to make things stronger, more reliable as well as better for overlanding & off-roading so why not go all the way!?
That is my 2 cents and yup I am blah'ing on. Yet, the things I mention gives you something to chew on and perhaps think about or look into. Here is a link to a very good Aussie forum where I am sure you can find tons of info on the truck.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/
A buddy of mine in Panama has/had the exact same truck. He hated it because it was full of rust and failing apart. It was in very poor condition all over, body shot, most doors didn't even open anymore, interior trashed and many electrical not working and it leaked oil from every single place it could leak oil from! I had seen these trucks before traveling but had not really been around them much and didn't know much about them. We (my buddy & I) stood around it picking the brain of Tapage (David aka Panama 4x4 club founder) and he explained to us this truck is not very ideal because of it's light duty and heavier weight then say a Hilux. He also explained they are know for some problems which it appears you have already done your homework on.
Now having said all that....I think you have a very nice truck in this one. There is definitely a number of things you can do to it to make it better for off-roading & overlanding. I do believe that is an 8" front axle in it correct? If so, as somebody mentioned you could fit an e-locker or a large variety of other Toyota 8" front axle mods. I can't tell from the pics but it appears to be a high pinion 8". Is it the same width as an 80-series front axle? The auto hubs, it looks like you plan to dump them for manuals. Good plan. Did you know the 80-series can be converted to manual Asian 9.5" axle hubs? All that has to be done is a groove machined into the outer axle stub shaft. I would think it would be the same for this truck.
I think the 1050lb payload is a very generous on Toyota's part. Load 1000lbs+ into this truck and it is going to suffer. I think the frame is up for the task as well as the 5spd and t-case. Isn't the R150F the same as the 5spd put in the HZJ80's? If it was me, I would buff up the frame with some plating here and there simply because I bet you will be close to 6,000lbs if you deck this thing out for overlanding. A heavy duty clutch would also be in order, look at the Excedy Safari Tuff. I would also look into 80-series axle mods, such as fitting a FF rear axle. If the front axle is the same as an 80-series (ie HP 8") I would look into upgrading the steering and knuckles. I think the tie rod behind the axle as well as the knuckles is your weak link in the front. The knuckle design is simply not as strong as some other models, lock it and load down the truck and it will be an even weaker link. The HP though is stronger then your standard low pinion 8" front, especially the 3rd member. However, if it is the same axle as the 80-series you have options to upgrade it. Going to a crossover steering set up will also greatly strengthen it compared to the tie rod behind the axle. It also removes the tie rod from behind the axle allowing for much more clearance and taking full advantage of the high pinion. Here is a link to a knuckle upgrade available for the 80-series 8" which also converts it to crossover steering.
http://hellfirefabworks.com/fj80hsu/
Slee also makes a kit...
http://sleeoffroad.com/products/products_steering_main.htm
I have nothing against Slee or that kit, I think Slee makes some awesome products but I got to say the Hellfire kit is much better and gives you a lot more bang for your buck.
I know you are not big on mods, especially to the engine but I would really look long and hard at an intercooler. You could do either top mount with a scoop or a bigger front mount. You will gain some benefit power wise from either but the main benefit is lower EGTs which in turn means longer engine life. I would also look at doing an external oil cooler. This will also really help prolong engine life. If you are going to up boost, IMHO these two mods are a must. You can also up injector pop pressure to gain some benefits and of course if you up boost up fuel. A free flowing exhaust is best, don't use headers they are a waste on a diesel. Best exhaust would be a straight pipe believe it or not but a nice free flowing muffler is good too. 2.5" pipe seems about right. I realize the want to keep it fairly stock but in this day and age there are proven mods like I mention that will do nothing to shorten engine life or reliability, in fact they will improve it if done right.
Any ways, if it was me I would look into how much of the axles are the same as an 80-series, same for the suspension. If coils, links, panhards, ect are the same as 80-series I would use Slee stuff. I would also upgrade the rear axle to a FF, if you plan to use it for overland trips anyways. I can't imagine swapping in a rear FF 80-series will be all that hard, it is just going to come down to width of the axle. If you didn't go with a FF rear perhaps just some Polyperformance chromoly rear shafts? It is all going to come down to if the axle is the same as a 60 or 80-series. If they are, it is a snap to upgrade, if not it will be much harder and parts will have to likely be sourced from Australia. That is unless you just swapped in some 80-series axles!
I would finish off the axles with some Longfields and the Hellfire knuckles plus crossover steering conversion. These may all sound like mods for off-roading and they are but they are also mods to give much increased strength. Which I feel in turn is super important on a heavily loaded overland truck that will be doing long trips be it on road or off. It looks like you are doing some mods to make things stronger, more reliable as well as better for overlanding & off-roading so why not go all the way!? That is my 2 cents and yup I am blah'ing on. Yet, the things I mention gives you something to chew on and perhaps think about or look into. Here is a link to a very good Aussie forum where I am sure you can find tons of info on the truck.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/
Scott Brady
Founder
Thank you. It is extremely clean, 100% rust free and with no damage. We got lucky.
I could not find where I mentioned the 80 series interior in the article. I agree, it is 100% 70 series interior. Overall, the truck matches the 76 in dimensions. It shares a lot of the front suspension architecture of the 80 series, and was the first all-coil wagon.
It can be converted to manual hubs. Our FZJ80 is converted to Aisin hubs with a part-time t-case conversion too. The axles are a bit odd-ball, with high-pinion front. Fortunately, Radd Cruisers out of Canada makes an adapter ring, then I can use standard L/C manual hubs. http://www.raddcruisers.ca/store.html
Agreed. It is super-cush and bottoms even empty. It needs a suspension bad. I am leaning towards OME medium springs to start, which will give +200lbs or so over stock and an additional 50mm of clearance. I will use some of the spring length to address additional load requirements, which will hopefully result in about 40mm overall lift increase and room for 255/85s.
It is the R150F, which is super strong given the application. I think the frame will be ok, as it is all 70 series HD stuff. I might look at a clutch in the future, but I am pretty gentle on clutches and with the 4.90 factory gear and diesel torque, the truck does not seem to work to hard in the slow speed stuff. The clutch also only has 60,000 miles on it
All excellent advise. My plan is to install a rear ARB locker, actuated by the factory locker switch (I bought one from Japan 4x4). I have pretty light-duty plans for this truck and I am gentle on drivetrain as a driver. So, I will just service the front axle (wipers) and keep everything stock. The 4.90 gears are already super low, almost too low. If I can keep stock Rover axles alive, it should be easy with a cruiser
All good stuff. I do like the intercooler idea and have started looking into them. There are some good factory options for intercooler hood intakes that would look right on the truck. I like the oil cooler idea too. Overall, we are going to drive the truck as intended and keep off the interstates. Monitoring of EGT will be important. I like the idea of a little more power, so we will look at the intercooler, small turbo boost increase and the 2.5" exhaust.
There are some shared components on the axles, but the suspension is only similar in the front. None of the springs are the same and the rear is a trailing arm like a G-Wagon (the 5-link on the 80 is a better design).
I appreciate all of the great ideas and feedback. This is going to be a fun little project.
Scott Brady
Founder
I will know once I actually have to fill it up. The low fuel light isn't even on yet and I am over 600 kms on the tank
Ray was monitoring the MPG on the way down from Canada, and he estimates it is near 26mpg on the highway at speeds between 90 and 100km hour.
The truck isn't fast, so it encourages a more mellow approach to driving anyways. I just cruise along and smile at the retro interior and clack of the diesel.
RMP&O
Expedition Leader
Here is the quote from the home page article...
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my rambling post! Sounds like you have a good plan to me.
I am not familiar with the t-case in these, is it the same as the 80-series too or...?
And yeah if you can keep Rover axles from exploding you should be fine with this truck! That kind of sucks though it doesn't share the same axles and suspension as the 80-series. Simply because it makes upgrades easy and you don't have to ship stuff here from Australia.
You and I have had the same truck, set up similar for overlanding, ie the 1st gen Tacoma. From my experience that is a great truck for overlanding yet it has a few downfalls. Mostly the weight thing. It is easy to hit 6,000lbs in a Taco when decked out and kitted up and then packed down for a long trip. I think that is something people often overlook when picking a truck and or modifying it. My Taco handled it on long hard trips. Heck, I think it was the heaviest I ever had it on the road from Puertecitos to HWY 1 in Baja and anybody who has driven that road knows it is rough. I was likely well over 6,000lbs for that road, we were packed to the hilt. The Taco handled that road and more yet, I am a bit paranoid when it comes to overloading a truck and then taking off on an adventure. In the Taco even with a Tundra brake upgrade I felt braking was less then good. The tranny while it din't get hot just felt over worked too. I just don't think it is a good thing to overload a truck and then hit the road. A 1000lbs payload is not much. Suspension for sure is the first thing to deal with but next up would be any weak spots in the frame and then the axles. This truck has a full box frame so I am sure it is up to the task unlike the Taco which doesn't have a full box frame. I never have broken an axle myself, well ok I shattered a birfield once. However, I dread the thought of dealing with axle problems out in the middle of nowhere. Any ways, this is why I made the suggestions I made. I believe in overbuilding things and then forgetting about it. If it was me I would look long and hard at swapping in 80-series axles simple to have piece of mind as well as ease of parts and upgrades.
You got a low mileage healthy motor there. It is definitely key to keep EGTs down in order to have it stay reliable for many many more years and miles. Sounds to me like you are on the right track. I am sure the little 4-banger diesel leaves a lot to be desired for power but as you know, that won't be an issue anywhere besides on a USA HWY.
You are in good hands with the Radd Cruiser guys. They do top notch work, know their stuff and from what I have seen offer excellent customer service.
If you desire a PTO, check out TradeMe in New Zealand. NZ got tons of JDM imports, many of which are now rotted beyond repair. As a result PTOs are fairly easy to find over there. I have bought 3 of them in NZ for Patrols.
Any ways, cool truck and cool project! I will be watching not only your build but any trips you take in it!!
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my rambling post! Sounds like you have a good plan to me.
I am not familiar with the t-case in these, is it the same as the 80-series too or...?
And yeah if you can keep Rover axles from exploding you should be fine with this truck!
That kind of sucks though it doesn't share the same axles and suspension as the 80-series. Simply because it makes upgrades easy and you don't have to ship stuff here from Australia. You and I have had the same truck, set up similar for overlanding, ie the 1st gen Tacoma. From my experience that is a great truck for overlanding yet it has a few downfalls. Mostly the weight thing. It is easy to hit 6,000lbs in a Taco when decked out and kitted up and then packed down for a long trip. I think that is something people often overlook when picking a truck and or modifying it. My Taco handled it on long hard trips. Heck, I think it was the heaviest I ever had it on the road from Puertecitos to HWY 1 in Baja and anybody who has driven that road knows it is rough. I was likely well over 6,000lbs for that road, we were packed to the hilt. The Taco handled that road and more yet, I am a bit paranoid when it comes to overloading a truck and then taking off on an adventure. In the Taco even with a Tundra brake upgrade I felt braking was less then good. The tranny while it din't get hot just felt over worked too. I just don't think it is a good thing to overload a truck and then hit the road. A 1000lbs payload is not much. Suspension for sure is the first thing to deal with but next up would be any weak spots in the frame and then the axles. This truck has a full box frame so I am sure it is up to the task unlike the Taco which doesn't have a full box frame. I never have broken an axle myself, well ok I shattered a birfield once. However, I dread the thought of dealing with axle problems out in the middle of nowhere. Any ways, this is why I made the suggestions I made. I believe in overbuilding things and then forgetting about it. If it was me I would look long and hard at swapping in 80-series axles simple to have piece of mind as well as ease of parts and upgrades.
You got a low mileage healthy motor there. It is definitely key to keep EGTs down in order to have it stay reliable for many many more years and miles. Sounds to me like you are on the right track. I am sure the little 4-banger diesel leaves a lot to be desired for power but as you know, that won't be an issue anywhere besides on a USA HWY.
You are in good hands with the Radd Cruiser guys. They do top notch work, know their stuff and from what I have seen offer excellent customer service.
If you desire a PTO, check out TradeMe in New Zealand. NZ got tons of JDM imports, many of which are now rotted beyond repair. As a result PTOs are fairly easy to find over there. I have bought 3 of them in NZ for Patrols.
Any ways, cool truck and cool project! I will be watching not only your build but any trips you take in it!!
Scott Brady
Founder
Thanks for finding the quote. Having driven a few 70s, they always had terrible seats, high NVH, etc. This truck has a 70 series dash (which I really like) and more of an 80 series NVH, seats with adjustable lumbar, etc.
The T-Case is 100% 70 series, although the 2h-4h activation is via a vacuum valve. I crawled around the 1HZ 78 we have here and it looks like the shifter and front actuation can be swapped over. It is interesting how much of this 1991 matches the 2010. I am not overly concerned about it though, as the vacuum system seems reliable enough and is quite common to many 4wds. The 80s have a similar transfer case, but with a lockable center differential.
The more I drive this truck, the fewer modifications I want to do to it. I will say that suspension and a rear lockers are 100% go though - it really 'needs' the suspension and I would 'like' to have the rear locker for better control.
The T-Case is 100% 70 series, although the 2h-4h activation is via a vacuum valve. I crawled around the 1HZ 78 we have here and it looks like the shifter and front actuation can be swapped over. It is interesting how much of this 1991 matches the 2010. I am not overly concerned about it though, as the vacuum system seems reliable enough and is quite common to many 4wds. The 80s have a similar transfer case, but with a lockable center differential.
The more I drive this truck, the fewer modifications I want to do to it. I will say that suspension and a rear lockers are 100% go though - it really 'needs' the suspension and I would 'like' to have the rear locker for better control.
1leglance
2007 Expedition Trophy Champion, Overland Certifie
I agree with your thoughts on making a rear bumper...and I agree that it is tough to do right.
Departure angle was not great on my 75 series Troopie and it doesn't look much better on your rig but you can gain a bit by getting rid of the factory bumper and building something.
Also you can get the tire off the door which I always think is a good idea.
The 4wd Action forum along with ih8mud have some images of rear bumpers...not alot but there are some.
I know clean and simple is always your style Scott so I am looking foward to your bumper design.
Departure angle was not great on my 75 series Troopie and it doesn't look much better on your rig but you can gain a bit by getting rid of the factory bumper and building something.
Also you can get the tire off the door which I always think is a good idea.
The 4wd Action forum along with ih8mud have some images of rear bumpers...not alot but there are some.
I know clean and simple is always your style Scott so I am looking foward to your bumper design.
Wheelingnoob
Adventurer
Looking forward to seeing this build. There are lots of those Prados up here most auto though, I looked at a couple when I was getting my Cruiser. Nice trucks but the horror stories of the heads and engines scared me off.
Toyotero
Explorer
This is awesome that y'all picked up a Prado. I've dug these vehicles ever since I first saw one in Leon years ago, especially after driving several Hiluxes and 70s for work and commute. As you guys wrote, it looks like a great middle ground between the two vehicles, especially since it's coils on all 4 corners.
I'm going to be following what you publish about it, especially technical details.
I saw mentioned in the front page article that the front axle is a mix of Hilux and LC, can you elaborate on this?
I'm going to be following what you publish about it, especially technical details.
I saw mentioned in the front page article that the front axle is a mix of Hilux and LC, can you elaborate on this?
Scott Brady
Founder
This is as I understand it: The axle housing and differential is like the 80 series, with a high pinion and 8" ring gear (4.90:1 Ratio). The knuckles are more reflective of a hilux and the axle shafts are a hybrid.
NM-Frontier
Explorer
Have you had to fill up yet?:sombrero: