Expo Vehicle MPG

Mickey Bitsko

Adventurer
After reading this thread, it appears environmental impact is not being addressed because, how small is small.
Op, please describe exactly how you define environmental impact?
Where to begin?
Are you concerned about how gasoline is produced and environmental impact of ice vehicles , et al?
Environmental impact of ev's from a manufacturing standpoint ie; mining for batteries, et al?
Environmental impact on building a bigger better electric grid?
All of this ^ is/has ongoing environmental impact.
If you want to live life with the smallest carbon footprint and the lowest environmental impact, you have to define it.
At this point, all of this discussion is moot.
If you're ridden with guilt? That's another discussion.
 

ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
After reading this thread, it appears environmental impact is not being addressed because, how small is small.
Op, please describe exactly how you define environmental impact?
Where to begin?
Are you concerned about how gasoline is produced and environmental impact of ice vehicles , et al?
Environmental impact of ev's from a manufacturing standpoint ie; mining for batteries, et al?
Environmental impact on building a bigger better electric grid?
All of this ^ is/has ongoing environmental impact.
If you want to live life with the smallest carbon footprint and the lowest environmental impact, you have to define it.
At this point, all of this discussion is moot.
If you're ridden with guilt? That's another discussion.
Actually, I listed a set of options/trade-offs and asked if I was missing anything. People then proceeded to tell me I shouldn't care about MPG for various money-related reasons. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nothing you've said is wrong, btw...
  • "Carbon footprint" was invented by oil companies to shift the burden of environmental impact off of themselves and onto consumers.
  • Private jet flights and oil production are far bigger polluters than any one of us driving our adventure rigs.
  • Mining for lithium is horrific in various ways, harming the environmental and perpetuating socio-economic inequality in colonized regions of the world.
  • Traveling by any method always produces an environmental impact, and you never have enough information to properly quantify it.
I'm not sure any of that changes my initial premise: "I constantly wrestle with is the balance between mobility, space and comfort, and fuel economy in an expedition vehicle or camper."
 

rruff

Explorer
If you want to live life with the smallest carbon footprint and the lowest environmental impact, you have to define it.
Yep... ain't happening if you are putting lots of miles on a big rig. It probably isn't happening at home either, in a typical USA house, with a typical USA lifestyle... no matter how much "feel good" recycling you do.

Traveling by any method always produces an environmental impact, and you never have enough information to properly quantify it.

If you want to explore though and think camping is "boring", you can go on foot or ride a bicycle. Pare down your belongings to what you can carry and hit the road. Take a bus or train or hitch a ride if you need to get out of the gawdawful east and into a part of the country with some breathing room.

You won't be bored... :unsure:

There are cute females doing this alone in 3rd world countries, so I think a burly man should be able to manage in one of the safest countries on the planet.
 

ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
Yep... ain't happening if you are putting lots of miles on a big rig. It probably isn't happening at home either, in a typical USA house, with a typical USA lifestyle... no matter how much "feel good" recycling you do.



If you want to explore though and think camping is "boring", you can go on foot or ride a bicycle. Pare down your belongings to what you can carry and hit the road. Take a bus or train or hitch a ride if you need to get out of the gawdawful east and into a part of the country with some breathing room.

You won't be bored... :unsure:

There are cute females doing this alone in 3rd world countries, so I think a burly man should be able to manage in one of the safest countries on the planet.
Given that my initial statement was...

"I constantly wrestle with is the balance between mobility, space and comfort, and fuel economy in an expedition vehicle or camper"

This is a really bizarre response that seems to completely ignore the plot here.

Not sure why you'd assume I'm a "burly man" either, or that I'd inherently be worried about safety while traveling.
 

rruff

Explorer
"I constantly wrestle with is the balance between mobility, space and comfort, and fuel economy in an expedition vehicle or camper"
Yes... and everyone here has told you that you might as well take fuel economy off your list, if a big expedition vehicle and camper are what you want. There is very little in it.

You also said that "camping is boring" and you "like to explore" and you are "worried about the environmental impact"... so I gave you some very viable choices that will satisfy those extremely well! The "space and comfort" categories may be lacking... but something has to give.
 

Mickey Bitsko

Adventurer
Cutting to the chase here , what is a baseline environmental impact (carbon footprint) is part of the environmental impact, imo, based on your camping/exploring expectations?
For instance, exploring your state, the US?
For what length of time?
There are SO many variables, it is impossible for anyone on this site that can help you or make suggestions until YOU figure out exactly what you have in mind and in detail.

In the words of my late brother,
You can't think outside the box until you know the dimensions .
 

Todd780

OverCamper
So, I thought of another option for you. Refuelling may be difficult unless you carry a bunch of your own fuel.

But, many moons ago I almost bought a late 90's 3/4 ton diesel Suburban 4x4 that was converted to run on waste veggie oil

Maybe that is an option? I honestly couldn't tell you what the emissions impact is from a biodiesel powered vehicle and if your concerns would be addressed.

Just another option.



 

ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
Just to recap, the options and tradeoffs are...
  • A RTT or ground tent provide the best fuel economy, but least comfortable/amenity-rich.
  • A pop-top truck camper keeps the fuel economy good, but is often lacking in space.
  • Campervans seem to get shockingly good MPG, but are narrower and better suited for 2 people than a family.
  • A hard-side truck camper or expedition vehicle has comfort and space in spades, but guzzles gas.
  • A travel trailer can get better MPG with the right setup, but now you're stuck towing a big thing.
From what I can gather, bigger rigs are in the 10-12 mpg range, vans gets closer to 15-20 mpg, and RTT/ground tent options get as good mpg as the vehicle you use them with.

And as always, slower is better.

Is that about right?
 

rruff

Explorer
From what I can gather, bigger rigs are in the 10-12 mpg range, vans gets closer to 15-20 mpg, and RTT/ground tent options get as good mpg as the vehicle you use them with.
There is nothing "magic" about a van unless you like banging your undercarriage and axles on rocks due to a lack of ground clearance, not having 4wd, and being underpowered (relatively). A large and aeroish standup camper on a Ram 1500 2wd with a 3.6L engine would do as well as the high top Promaster van for mpg, and be a better platform for offroad. Taller tires and a lift will hurt mpg of either. If you get 4wd and the 5.7 on the truck, you'll lose some more.

The best you can do is a GM pickup with the 3.0L diesel. With 4wd and good tires you might get over 20mpg with a camper if you go slow.

And as always, slower is better.
Maybe a lot better...

 

tacollie

Glamper
That's pretty accurate.

We have some friends that are concerned about the environment. The always commuted to work by bicycle and public transportation. When covid hit and they were able to work remotely they bought a 7.3 F-250 and put a Bison hard side on it. It gets 10mpgs. It replaced a vehicle that got over 40mpgs. They actually spend less money on fuel now because they float around from one destination to the next instead of doing high mileage road trips. I'm not sure what your end goal is but it's something to consider if you're planning on traveling long-term.
 

68camaro

Any River...Any Place
My mildly "overland" build Chinook averages around 9- 10 mpg....stinks but way better than a deep sea fishing boat or cruiser....at least that is what I tell myself at every gas station:)
 

rruff

Explorer
Check out the F150 engine options.
They appear to have dropped the NA V6 this year, so I don't think any would be getting "good" mpg with a camper. Maybe the 2.7 turbo if you drive slow.

The 3L GM diesel is the clear outlier for good mpg. With a delete and some tuning I bet it could do very well. 🤪
 

ReluctantTraveler

Well-known member
Also, payload carried. Sometimes a "smaller" solution, relatively heavily loaded will work harder and consume more fuel than a "larger" solution relatively more lightly loaded.

This has *absolutely* been my experience.

We tow a 4k lb trailer (loaded) with a Toyota Highlander that has a max tow capacity of 5k, and get about 15mpg while doing so. We meet people all the time that tow campers twice as heavy with big trucks that get lower fuel economy than ours when not towing... but because they're not working as hard to haul load, the get the same (or better) MPG while towing.

All good food for thought!
 

1000arms

Well-known member
One of the things I constantly wrestle with is the balance between mobility, space and comfort, and fuel economy in an expedition vehicle or camper.

I know a lot of folks here don't feel the same way, but as the world burns, I feel less and less comfortable with a vehicle designed to explore the world (or country) that hastens its demise with excessive emissions.

Thinking through the options...
  • A RTT or ground tent provide the best fuel economy, but least comfortable/amenity-rich.
  • A pop-top truck camper keeps the fuel economy good, but is often lacking in space.
  • Campervans seem to get shockingly good MPG, but are narrower and better suited for 2 people than a family.
  • A hard-side truck camper or expedition vehicle has comfort and space in spades, but guzzles gas.
  • A travel trailer can get better MPG with the right setup, but now you're stuck towing a big thing.
Am I missing anything? Are there hard-side campers that do better than 12-15 MPG? Pop-ups or campervans that aren't cramped with a family?

I also suspect this actually belongs in a different channel than DIY, but couldn't figure out the right place for it. Admins, feel free to move it!
If I understand what you are asking, this isn’t one of your threads where you have asked, “How do I …?”, but rather an idea generating thread for you? An open discussion about traveling and exploring while minimizing the damage one does while traveling and exploring?

Perhaps switching from discussing “fuel economy and MPG” to “minimizing emissions per mile” will help?

You might research “eco-modding” vehicles to see the efforts some people undertake.

RTTs can really impact some vehicles.

If I remember correctly, you were planning on traveling with 2 adults and 4 kids? Has this changed? There are more vehicles to choose from if one is packing 4 people plus gear into a vehicle. Even more so if only 2 people plus gear into a vehicle.

I will suggest that you camp/travel/explore with what you currently have to keep costs down while you consider any changes you might want to make.

Depending on the age of your companions, multiple smaller tents might be cheaper, lighter, and allow for more privacy than a single large tent.

You might look at Alaskan Campers for ideas to build your own hardsided pop-up camper. They make slide-in and flatbed models.
 

Christian P.

Expedition Leader
Staff member
I bought a Rav4 Prime back when Toyota was offering the $6500 credit. 50 mpg average combined. It's awesome. Just turned 20000 miles in a year. Putting $15 of fuel in it feels like I am back in college. I haven't used it for camping yet but you could, plenty of people have done it.


I still have my Transit AWD High Roof but I only use it for long travel. I am lucky to get 13mpg in it.
 

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