Expo Vehicle MPG

[Mickey Bitsko]

After reading this thread, it appears environmental impact is not being addressed because, how small is small.
Op, please describe exactly how you define environmental impact?
Where to begin?
Are you concerned about how gasoline is produced and environmental impact of ice vehicles , et al?
Environmental impact of ev's from a manufacturing standpoint ie; mining for batteries, et al?
Environmental impact on building a bigger better electric grid?
All of this ^ is/has ongoing environmental impact.
If you want to live life with the smallest carbon footprint and the lowest environmental impact, you have to define it.
At this point, all of this discussion is moot.
If you're ridden with guilt? That's another discussion.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

After reading this thread, it appears environmental impact is not being addressed because, how small is small.
Op, please describe exactly how you define environmental impact?
Where to begin?
Are you concerned about how gasoline is produced and environmental impact of ice vehicles , et al?
Environmental impact of ev's from a manufacturing standpoint ie; mining for batteries, et al?
Environmental impact on building a bigger better electric grid?
All of this ^ is/has ongoing environmental impact.
If you want to live life with the smallest carbon footprint and the lowest environmental impact, you have to define it.
At this point, all of this discussion is moot.
If you're ridden with guilt? That's another discussion.

Actually, I listed a set of options/trade-offs and asked if I was missing anything. People then proceeded to tell me I shouldn't care about MPG for various money-related reasons. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nothing you've said is wrong, btw...

• "Carbon footprint" was invented by oil companies to shift the burden of environmental impact off of themselves and onto consumers.
• Private jet flights and oil production are far bigger polluters than any one of us driving our adventure rigs.
• Mining for lithium is horrific in various ways, harming the environmental and perpetuating socio-economic inequality in colonized regions of the world.
• Traveling by any method always produces an environmental impact, and you never have enough information to properly quantify it.

I'm not sure any of that changes my initial premise: "I constantly wrestle with is the balance between mobility, space and comfort, and fuel economy in an expedition vehicle or camper."

 

[rruff]

If you want to live life with the smallest carbon footprint and the lowest environmental impact, you have to define it.

Yep... ain't happening if you are putting lots of miles on a big rig. It probably isn't happening at home either, in a typical USA house, with a typical USA lifestyle... no matter how much "feel good" recycling you do.

Traveling by any method always produces an environmental impact, and you never have enough information to properly quantify it.

If you want to explore though and think camping is "boring", you can go on foot or ride a bicycle. Pare down your belongings to what you can carry and hit the road. Take a bus or train or hitch a ride if you need to get out of the gawdawful east and into a part of the country with some breathing room.

You won't be bored...

There are cute females doing this alone in 3rd world countries, so I think a burly man should be able to manage in one of the safest countries on the planet.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Yep... ain't happening if you are putting lots of miles on a big rig. It probably isn't happening at home either, in a typical USA house, with a typical USA lifestyle... no matter how much "feel good" recycling you do.



If you want to explore though and think camping is "boring", you can go on foot or ride a bicycle. Pare down your belongings to what you can carry and hit the road. Take a bus or train or hitch a ride if you need to get out of the gawdawful east and into a part of the country with some breathing room.

You won't be bored...

There are cute females doing this alone in 3rd world countries, so I think a burly man should be able to manage in one of the safest countries on the planet.

Given that my initial statement was...

"I constantly wrestle with is the balance between mobility, space and comfort, and fuel economy in an expedition vehicle or camper"

This is a really bizarre response that seems to completely ignore the plot here.

Not sure why you'd assume I'm a "burly man" either, or that I'd inherently be worried about safety while traveling.

 

[rruff]

"I constantly wrestle with is the balance between mobility, space and comfort, and fuel economy in an expedition vehicle or camper"

Yes... and everyone here has told you that you might as well take fuel economy off your list, if a big expedition vehicle and camper are what you want. There is very little in it.

You also said that "camping is boring" and you "like to explore" and you are "worried about the environmental impact"... so I gave you some very viable choices that will satisfy those extremely well! The "space and comfort" categories may be lacking... but something has to give.

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

Cutting to the chase here , what is a baseline environmental impact (carbon footprint) is part of the environmental impact, imo, based on your camping/exploring expectations?
For instance, exploring your state, the US?
For what length of time?
There are SO many variables, it is impossible for anyone on this site that can help you or make suggestions until YOU figure out exactly what you have in mind and in detail.

In the words of my late brother,
You can't think outside the box until you know the dimensions .

 

[Todd n Natalie]

So, I thought of another option for you. Refuelling may be difficult unless you carry a bunch of your own fuel.

But, many moons ago I almost bought a late 90's 3/4 ton diesel Suburban 4x4 that was converted to run on waste veggie oil

Maybe that is an option? I honestly couldn't tell you what the emissions impact is from a biodiesel powered vehicle and if your concerns would be addressed.

Just another option.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Just to recap, the options and tradeoffs are...

• A RTT or ground tent provide the best fuel economy, but least comfortable/amenity-rich.
• A pop-top truck camper keeps the fuel economy good, but is often lacking in space.
• Campervans seem to get shockingly good MPG, but are narrower and better suited for 2 people than a family.
• A hard-side truck camper or expedition vehicle has comfort and space in spades, but guzzles gas.
• A travel trailer can get better MPG with the right setup, but now you're stuck towing a big thing.

From what I can gather, bigger rigs are in the 10-12 mpg range, vans gets closer to 15-20 mpg, and RTT/ground tent options get as good mpg as the vehicle you use them with.

And as always, slower is better.

Is that about right?

 

[rruff]

From what I can gather, bigger rigs are in the 10-12 mpg range, vans gets closer to 15-20 mpg, and RTT/ground tent options get as good mpg as the vehicle you use them with.

There is nothing "magic" about a van unless you like banging your undercarriage and axles on rocks due to a lack of ground clearance, not having 4wd, and being underpowered (relatively). A large and aeroish standup camper on a Ram 1500 2wd with a 3.6L engine would do as well as the high top Promaster van for mpg, and be a better platform for offroad. Taller tires and a lift will hurt mpg of either. If you get 4wd and the 5.7 on the truck, you'll lose some more.

The best you can do is a GM pickup with the 3.0L diesel. With 4wd and good tires you might get over 20mpg with a camper if you go slow.

And as always, slower is better.

Maybe a lot better...

 

[tacollie]

That's pretty accurate.

We have some friends that are concerned about the environment. The always commuted to work by bicycle and public transportation. When covid hit and they were able to work remotely they bought a 7.3 F-250 and put a Bison hard side on it. It gets 10mpgs. It replaced a vehicle that got over 40mpgs. They actually spend less money on fuel now because they float around from one destination to the next instead of doing high mileage road trips. I'm not sure what your end goal is but it's something to consider if you're planning on traveling long-term.

 

[klahanie]

Just to recap, the options and tradeoffs are...

• A RTT or ground tent provide the best fuel economy, but least comfortable/amenity-rich.
• A pop-top truck camper keeps the fuel economy good, but is often lacking in space.
• Campervans seem to get shockingly good MPG, but are narrower and better suited for 2 people than a family.
• A hard-side truck camper or expedition vehicle has comfort and space in spades, but guzzles gas.
• A travel trailer can get better MPG with the right setup, but now you're stuck towing a big thing.

not necessarily vehicle type specific but an EV was mentioned earlier.

Trailer doesn't have to be big. Some even expand when deployed

From what I can gather, bigger rigs are in the 10-12 mpg range, vans gets closer to 15-20 mpg, and RTT/ground tent options get as good mpg as the vehicle you use them with.

And as always, slower is better.

Is that about right?

I'll disagree, an RTT will most likely produce a mileage hit. Anything outside can have an effect. Similarly the pop up camper listed above, with a lot of junk loaded outside might do just as poorly as a clean lined hardside.

Also, payload carried. Sometimes a "smaller" solution, relatively heavily loaded will work harder and consume more fuel than a "larger" solution relatively more lightly loaded.

 

[klahanie]

Just to give an example. Check out the F150 engine options. Ford offers quite a few. Same size vehicle outside but different engines.

How the vehicle is used, and with which engine will determine the fuel consumption.

One specific application would favour a specific engine. But of course it always comes down to compromise.

 

[68camaro]

My mildly "overland" build Chinook averages around 9- 10 mpg....stinks but way better than a deep sea fishing boat or cruiser....at least that is what I tell myself at every gas station

 

[rruff]

Check out the F150 engine options.

They appear to have dropped the NA V6 this year, so I don't think any would be getting "good" mpg with a camper. Maybe the 2.7 turbo if you drive slow.

The 3L GM diesel is the clear outlier for good mpg. With a delete and some tuning I bet it could do very well. 🤪

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Also, payload carried. Sometimes a "smaller" solution, relatively heavily loaded will work harder and consume more fuel than a "larger" solution relatively more lightly loaded.

This has *absolutely* been my experience.

We tow a 4k lb trailer (loaded) with a Toyota Highlander that has a max tow capacity of 5k, and get about 15mpg while doing so. We meet people all the time that tow campers twice as heavy with big trucks that get lower fuel economy than ours when not towing... but because they're not working as hard to haul load, the get the same (or better) MPG while towing.

All good food for thought!