dhackney
Expedition Leader
Photos from the last two months' final push to completion are posted in albums 23 - 26 at:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/index-buildup-photos.htm
FG buildup
- Thread starter dhackney
- Start date
Photos from the last two months' final push to completion are posted in albums 23 - 26 at:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/index-buildup-photos.htm
Grim Reaper
Expedition Leader
Be careful with that Dewalt. Dewalt chargers have a nasty habit of catching fire. Make sure power is cut and battery out of the unit when not actively charging.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501168&page=5&highlight=dewalt+fire
After reading that I don't leave any battery chargers from any manufacture plugged in after they complete their charge cycle.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501168&page=5&highlight=dewalt+fire
After reading that I don't leave any battery chargers from any manufacture plugged in after they complete their charge cycle.
Scott Brady
Founder
Awesome Doug!
I am so proud of your commitment and accomplishment. Please let me know if the Expedition Portal community can ever be of assistance!
I am so proud of your commitment and accomplishment. Please let me know if the Expedition Portal community can ever be of assistance!
jayshapiro
Adventurer
Congrats
Amazing job Doug!
I'm so impressed how you have stuck with it and stuck with it. In the end, you've built a fantastic vehicle.
I'm sure we'll all be very curious to hear what learnings you get out of the first couple of months on the road. Nothing tests design theory like driving down that road...
Safe journeys!
Jay.
Amazing job Doug!
I'm so impressed how you have stuck with it and stuck with it. In the end, you've built a fantastic vehicle.
I'm sure we'll all be very curious to hear what learnings you get out of the first couple of months on the road. Nothing tests design theory like driving down that road...
Safe journeys!
Jay.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
expeditionswest said:
Scott,
If it were not for the ExPo community, I don't think we would ever have been able to accomplish this goal.
As I posted over on ExCamper, "If anything is good about this thing, we owe it to those went before us and plowed the field, such as Carl & Mary Hunter, Don & Kim Green, Darrin Fink, etc.; the professionalism, knowledge and capability of professionals such as Scott Brady; and the input, advice and constructive criticism of this expedition community. I take 100% responsibility for all screw ups, design flaws, poor execution, etc.
Your patience and understanding with a total 4x4 / overlander / expedition camper neophyte has been both exceptional and noteworthy.
We could never repay you all. All we can do is say, sincerely, thank you."
There is, however, one member of this community who deserves special recognition for their input, advice, consultation, constructive criticism and support for our project, and that is Scott Brady.
Scott provided specific input to the design of the project that has made all the difference in the world. Specifically, he recommended adding the shocks for the 3 point pivot frame and reinforced a friend's recommendation of Deaver Spring and Bilstein shocks for the chassis. Those additions alone, in conjunctioin with the rear sway bar, made the truck drive and ride like a completely different vehicle. We owe much of our comfort and safety to Scott's input in these areas.
However, his greatest contribution is one we will be forever indebted to him for: his enthusiastic support for the grill light & cutting board.
Priorities, after all...
So, Scott, can the ExPo community do any more? Could I, in good concience or faith, ever impose on this community, or you, for anything more? Never!
Oh, but wait, I guess there is one more thing. About that anti-gravity paint you promised...
To all the members of this forum, be well,
Doug
dhackney
Expedition Leader
I've spent the last couple of days updating the web site with as much detailed project information and lessons learned type information as I could. Other than posting the buildup photos, I didn't have the available bandwidth to put much time into the site during the run of the project. I think I've put about everything I've got in my head up there now.
New data & content includes:
Project web site:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/
.
New data & content includes:
- Ratings of the outcome vs. our specific design goals
- Actual timeline with as many discrete project tasks as I could document
- Updated FAQ
- Top 10 Mistakes
- 3 Point Pivot Frame documentation
- Calculating Center of Gravity and related data points documentation
- Updated lessons learned
- Detailed list of project components
- Updated comments on Alternative Vehicles Considered
- Added US-Metric and Fractional to Decimal & MM conversion spreadsheets
Project web site:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/
.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
After a huge project by Steph collating and organizing all of the project receipts and hours on the laptop by me updating the cost spreadsheets I abandoned last December, we finally have a definative answer to the question, "What did it cost?"
We now know, without any doubt, that the project cost us exactly four inches.
For those interested in a different means of measuring cost, here are some specifics on the basic elements of the project:
2007 Mitsubishi Fuso FG 140 $36,187.50
Includes all fees, etc. - total out the door price. Kearny Mesa Truck Center, San Diego.
2006 Bigfoot 30C10.11FR $31,920.00
Includes all dealer fees, options, etc. You can do a lot better than this price. There were only two left in the country at the time, so we didn't have much leverage.
External storage boxes, garage, etc. $5,711.00
This includes all external locking storage boxes, spare tire boxes, etc. Fleet Metal Box (FMB), Colton, CA
Aluminum custom fuel tanks $1,682.00
Stainless steel raw water tank $1,265.00
Three point pivot frame: $ will depend on your fabrication costs. For design ideas, etc. click here: http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/index-pivot-frame.htm
If you know someone who can fabricate, you can create the basic concept for about $100,000. Obviously, if you can fabricate yourself, you can do it for these costs and the raw material costs, which will be significantly less.
The rest of our total cost is in all those receipts: all the marine grade materials, marine systems, equipment and capabilities that we added to the rig.
Tonight was the first time we've had a cost total that we felt was complete and detailed enough to be pretty close to what our total investment was. It actually turned out to be less than I thought.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
Some more thoughts on cost. (this is an excerpt of a post I made on RV.net in a thread related to building your own Earthroamer)
It takes a tremendous investment of time and a significant investment of dollars to build one of these things on a custom / one-off / bespoke basis in a quality manner.
For instance, I worked on this full time, usually 12-14 hours a day minimum from 15 September 2006 to 4 June 2007. That's 263 days. My wife thinks I took at most 20 days off during that span, so that's a net of 243 days. That day count does not include the research and design work that started three days after she walked into my office and told me she couldn't go out by sailboat in early January. (The three days was a period of mourning, wailing and knashing of teeth, not necessarily in that order.)
I couldn't begin to estimate that total investment of time, but I was on it pretty much full time, 6-8 hours a day, from mid-January until we left for the proof of concept camper rental 2 July 2006. We were on that test for six weeks to see if this concept was viable for us. Starting in mid-August we were on the road dispersing our worldy goods (a bit like the reading of your will while living experience - very cool) driving all over the U.S., but I still worked on design and research every night while were on the road. Figure at least 20-25 hours a week. That lasted until 15 September.
So, timewise, I was on this full-time, plus overtime, for about 1.5 years, with very, very little time off, from the point the sailboat dream died to the point this rig rolled out. It's 505 days from 15 January 2006 to 4 June 2007. I estimate I worked on this 400-420 of those days.
How do you value that time? I don't know. I knew nothing, zero, zilch, nada about 4x4s, expedition vehicles, RVs, campers, etc. when I started this, so you can't value my time much over minimum wage at that point. By the end I was reasonably competent, if you ignore the fact I usually did everything 2 or 3 times until I got it up to the point where it could be viewed in the context of our master artist fabrictor Mark's work.
If you take an average day of 10 hours X 410 days that gives 4,100 man hours. Just by me. If I average out at $15 or 25 per hour, then that's between 60 and 100k for my time. If you think the design and assembly work was valued more like typical shop rates then that would be more like 4100 X $80 = $328k.
That does not include subcontractors, of which Mark was the primary - probably 98% of the subcontracted work. I honestly don't know how many hours Mark had in this project. He worked on it very hard from September through the holidays, including over the holidays themselves. He had some other projects during that time too, so figure at least two man months of his time. Mark is an absolute master craftsman, an artist, at metal fabrication, so you need to have a very high rate when you start doing your back of the envelope calculations. If you figure eight weeks at 20 hours a week at $100 per hour for him thats 160 hours X $100 or $16k for fabrication. He also had an assistant, plus he farmed out the stainless steel raw water tank, the aluminum fuel tanks and the storage boxes.
So, when you think about building one of these because you think it will be less expensive than an Earthroamer or a Unicat or similar factory built solution, you may want to re-read those previous paragraphs.
How much is a year and a half of your time worth? Even if you say you are going to do everything exactly like we did so you only need to put in the nine months to build it, how much is nine months of your life worth? These are not short days. Say goodbye to your friends and family for those nine months. How much is that worth?
And what are the consequences for doing it poorly, cobbling it together? Only you can answer that.
Larry Lord, the owner of Fleet Metal Box where we had our storage boxes made, after viewing our rig told me, "I couldn't tell you how many guys have come in here over the years with big plans and big stories. Yours is the first one I've ever seen that fulfilled the vision."
It takes a very high, very sustained commitment to quality, and a tremendous investment in time, material and, yes, money, to achieve that goal.
I contend: Buy quality, buy what you can, build what you must.
It takes a tremendous investment of time and a significant investment of dollars to build one of these things on a custom / one-off / bespoke basis in a quality manner.
For instance, I worked on this full time, usually 12-14 hours a day minimum from 15 September 2006 to 4 June 2007. That's 263 days. My wife thinks I took at most 20 days off during that span, so that's a net of 243 days. That day count does not include the research and design work that started three days after she walked into my office and told me she couldn't go out by sailboat in early January. (The three days was a period of mourning, wailing and knashing of teeth, not necessarily in that order.)
I couldn't begin to estimate that total investment of time, but I was on it pretty much full time, 6-8 hours a day, from mid-January until we left for the proof of concept camper rental 2 July 2006. We were on that test for six weeks to see if this concept was viable for us. Starting in mid-August we were on the road dispersing our worldy goods (a bit like the reading of your will while living experience - very cool) driving all over the U.S., but I still worked on design and research every night while were on the road. Figure at least 20-25 hours a week. That lasted until 15 September.
So, timewise, I was on this full-time, plus overtime, for about 1.5 years, with very, very little time off, from the point the sailboat dream died to the point this rig rolled out. It's 505 days from 15 January 2006 to 4 June 2007. I estimate I worked on this 400-420 of those days.
How do you value that time? I don't know. I knew nothing, zero, zilch, nada about 4x4s, expedition vehicles, RVs, campers, etc. when I started this, so you can't value my time much over minimum wage at that point. By the end I was reasonably competent, if you ignore the fact I usually did everything 2 or 3 times until I got it up to the point where it could be viewed in the context of our master artist fabrictor Mark's work.
If you take an average day of 10 hours X 410 days that gives 4,100 man hours. Just by me. If I average out at $15 or 25 per hour, then that's between 60 and 100k for my time. If you think the design and assembly work was valued more like typical shop rates then that would be more like 4100 X $80 = $328k.
That does not include subcontractors, of which Mark was the primary - probably 98% of the subcontracted work. I honestly don't know how many hours Mark had in this project. He worked on it very hard from September through the holidays, including over the holidays themselves. He had some other projects during that time too, so figure at least two man months of his time. Mark is an absolute master craftsman, an artist, at metal fabrication, so you need to have a very high rate when you start doing your back of the envelope calculations. If you figure eight weeks at 20 hours a week at $100 per hour for him thats 160 hours X $100 or $16k for fabrication. He also had an assistant, plus he farmed out the stainless steel raw water tank, the aluminum fuel tanks and the storage boxes.
So, when you think about building one of these because you think it will be less expensive than an Earthroamer or a Unicat or similar factory built solution, you may want to re-read those previous paragraphs.
How much is a year and a half of your time worth? Even if you say you are going to do everything exactly like we did so you only need to put in the nine months to build it, how much is nine months of your life worth? These are not short days. Say goodbye to your friends and family for those nine months. How much is that worth?
And what are the consequences for doing it poorly, cobbling it together? Only you can answer that.
Larry Lord, the owner of Fleet Metal Box where we had our storage boxes made, after viewing our rig told me, "I couldn't tell you how many guys have come in here over the years with big plans and big stories. Yours is the first one I've ever seen that fulfilled the vision."
It takes a very high, very sustained commitment to quality, and a tremendous investment in time, material and, yes, money, to achieve that goal.
I contend: Buy quality, buy what you can, build what you must.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
Speaker said:
Thanks for the kind words on the build.
RE: Baja Designs
No, I don't work for them, but I am expecting a Christmas card from them considering how many of their photons come out of the front of the rig.
I do know a guy who races Baja, Jimmy Sones, the 2006 Baja 1000 motorcycle solo Ironman champion, who is sponsored by them, but that is as close as it gets, one degree of separation. (click here for more on Jimmy's ride last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgmi-IrKYME )
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