Fiji Bottled Water - True Cost?

[mountainpete]

This article popped up on Digg regarding Fiji bottled water - right now the second most popular premium water in the USA. Should make for a good discussion:

What are your thoughts? Does information like this sway your purchase patterns?

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From: Tree Hugger

In summary, the manufacture and transport of that one kilogram bottle of Fiji water consumed 26.88 kilograms of water (7.1 gallons) .849 Kilograms of fossil fuel (one litre or .26 gal) and emitted 562 grams of Greenhouse Gases (1.2 pounds).

Twenty-six times as much water used to make it than you actually drink. As much fuel to make it as there is water in the bottle. Staggering is an understatement.

Click here for original source at : http://www.triplepundit.com/pages/askpablo-exotic-bottled-water-002401.php

 

[FJ Cruiser]

the comments below the post are entertaining to read

 

[mountainpete]

I agree - especially the one that calls him a quack

 

[flywgn]

Pete,

That's interesting, but I doubt some of Pablo's assumptions and calculations. I read his entire article and the comments following. I'd like to spend more time with the original article, but my analytical side says, "There's something missing here."

It' still food for thought. I was at a "Harvesting Clean Energy" conference a couple of week-ends ago and was amused by the fact that during the "Break-out Sessions" many attendees found it necessary to go outside and have a cigarette break. Now go figure. We're there to learn about making our air cleaner and these blighters have to foul up the air around them with smoke.:littlefriend:

Oh well.

Allen R

 

[DesertRose]

Good post, Mountainpete!

Absolutely that kind of information informs our buying decisions. We don't, in general, buy much processed food or drink of any kind - for the very reasons stated above. Processing and transport have a huge impact on our country (its landscapes, air and water quality, resources, etcetera). Buying and consuming locally is important. If local is not available, then we try to find less consumptive alternatives.

Plus, bottled water is so expensive - it's something like $5 or more a gallon!

I could go on and on about the expense and health evils of processed foods, but instead, I'll go cook a big hunk of beef roast bought from a local rancher . . . served with locally grown winter greens and turnips . . . and fresh bread . . . washed down with well water! :chowtime:

 

[devinsixtyseven]

It most certainly does sway my purchase patterns. I try to buy quality & local when reasonably possible, and save long range for expensive/awkward/specialized purchases. No sense in buying boutique goods from another state if there's something local.

 

[DaveInDenver]

What are your thoughts? Does information like this sway your purchase patterns?

It does sway me to some extent, although it sorta seems obvious that bottling water and shipping it goodness knows from where has got to be less efficient than drinking what comes from the tap. I personally like the fluoride is poison argument in the comments section. In high levels (much higher than the typically under 1 ppm level we get in most city water), it does cause fluorosis (makes your teeth all gray and nasty) and probably bone decay, but most troubling to me is the possible link to bone cancer. The whack-o people think fluoride reduces intelligence, which is why it's in the water supply, to keep us dumb and sedate. No, I'm naturally slow and the beer is plenty to keep me sedated.

Consequently, I'm not particularly worried about a fluoridated water supply, but it's interesting to note that the practice started after noticing kids down in the Springs had stained teeth, but fewer cavities. Took dentists a couple of decades to realize it's because the run-off that supplied Colorado Springs city water had high levels of fluoride from the cryolite present in the geology of Pike's Peak. And who says non-natives don't know local history?

 

[flywgn]

We do purchase and drink bottled water when traveling. The price doesn't bother me. After all, the beer I drink is $12 -$15/gal and the wine...well, that can run pretty high if one is doing a cost/gal analysis. I do purchase much, maybe most, of my beer and wine from producers who re-cycle their production water. At one time I could give you figures on the % of recovery we had from our production at the winery where I was GM, but I don't have their current figures.

We're partners in an organic farm/ranch, so much of what we purchase throughout the year is organically grown, and even that can have some caveats, especially when purchasing "organically-grown" fresh produce.

I wholeheartedly agree with Roseann's assessment of processed foods.

Here at our house, we have a well and the water is WON-derful. Right out of the lava-surrounded aquifer. My coffee in the morning is the best I've ever had (medium roast :coffeedrink: ).

But...back to the original article referenced, it seems to be that there is something about the author's (Pablo's) analysis that appears to be obfuscating. There are recondite numbers and calculations that don't match. I wish I had more time to read it thoroughly, but right now I'm busying myself with preparations for a quick trip down to Baja. I've printed a copy of the article to take with me.

I do wish to make it clear, that I dearly love that kind of information (referring to the article) and use it every place that I can. It's just that I prefer knowing that I'm on solid ground with the logic, the figures, and especially the assumptions.

Pete, I meant to thank you for posting it in the first place.

Allen R

ON EDIT: I just did a quick search of Fijian industries and found that there are 25 companies involved in the plastic industry making, among other things PET bottles, so right away Pablo's assumption of importing the bottles from China is brought into question. Probably just a quick e-mail to the Fiji water producer would answer a bunch of the questions, but I gotta quit this or I'll never get the truck loaded.....

 

[devinsixtyseven]

But...back to the original article referenced, it seems to be that there is something about the author's (Pablo's) analysis that appears to be obfuscating. There are recondite numbers and calculations that don't match.

There are. That's why the "quack" comment was so funny...it was a somewhat deserved smackdown. However, a better comment is from the guy who claims to have run a water business in the past...it's less attitude and more sensible.

As fallacious as Pablo's numbers may be, drinking "local" water definately has less global impact than shipping it over from BFE, if not exactly by the numbers and reasons he mentions--it doesn't take a slide rule to figure that out, but the numbers lend pseudo-scientific credence to his emotional appeal. Of course said water becomes muddier (and increasingly scarce) when the population in any area grows beyond the ability of the aquifer or surface runoff to support watering of sidewalks, washing of driveways, watering of golf courses or other wet 'n' humid climate pastimes which are inappropriate in an arid climate.

At that point, bringing in water may be a necessity, since the populations of Chino, Denver and Phoenix don't seem to be interested in conserving water anytime soon. Those populations aren't slackers, they provide quite a bit of muscle and brainpower to the economy, at some point I'm sure there is a balancing point between the cost of supplying water to those cities and the intellectual and manufacturing wealth they generate.

Of course, it would just be a lot easier if people would change with their environment vs the other way 'round. Driveways in Highlands Ranch would be dirtier, but water rights would also stop being top summer news in the Denver Post.

 

[justfred]

No wonder it's so tasty

But, heck, all water taste is the collection of minerals and pollutants left in or taken out.

When I buy water, I tend to buy Fiji when it's available; when I'm at home I drink out of the tap, or through a Brita. (Tip: recycle the Brita by using it to filter cheap Vodka!).

That said, I give my fish "Catalina Water" when it's available - shipped from the backside of Catalina, to my local fish store, to me (schlepping those 5 gallon bottles). So, if it's good enough for the fish, it's good enough for me.

 

[goodtimes]

ON EDIT: I just did a quick search of Fijian industries and found that there are 25 companies involved in the plastic industry making, among other things PET bottles, so right away Pablo's assumption of importing the bottles from China is brought into question.

Everyone should buy more PET bottles! What size do you want? Right now I have about 10 million PET bottles covering over 50,000 sq feet of warehouse...8 oz, 500mL, 20 oz, 1L, 1.5L, 2L, and 3L...all in varying colors and panel/foot designs. Just tell me how many you want.....:REOutArchery02:

FWIW, no one ships PET bottles across the ocean. Resin does get shipped via container ship, but not bottles. They take up to much room. For example, one 40' container will only hold 95,000 500mL bottles (retail sales cost of ~$8000). A big filling plant will run millions of bottles each day. I don't know what shipping costs are on a container ship...but my guess is it that it ain't cheap! Hell, it costs 2 grand to get a 53' trailer from Tucson to Los Angeles (with those same 95,000 500mL bottles). Nope, international shipping of PET bottles is simply cost prohibitive. In fact, shipping is so expensive for PET bottles (again, because a FCL only holds a couple hours worth of product), that many large filling plants are are either building blow molding plants on-site so they can eliminate the shipping cost, or working with companies like Amcor, Plasti-pak, etc., and having them build a facility across the parking lot from the filling plant.

Add to the fact that PET is a heat sensative material. If the box (trailer) heats up in the sun, the bottles will shrink, and become unusable. We can't even let the sunlight hit the bottles here in Tucson in the summer...they will shrink. Imagine what sitting in a cargo container for weeks at a time will do to them!

 

[goodtimes]

A little digging...Fiji uses an on-site blow molding (PET) plant. With their volumes, they probably do their injection molding there too...leaving them with only needing to import the resin.

Also noticed the author claims a 1 liter bottle uses 125 grams of PET. The heaviest 1 liter we currently produce weighs 33 grams...although we did at one time use a 37g preform for both a 1 liter and a 1.5 liter IIRC.

 

[whitethaiger]

I scanned the article and comments and have to agree with flywgn. The thing doesn't sound too scientific more like something the mainstream media would like.

As to GT's point about bottles, I was also wondering if they really bottle the stuff down there rather than bringing it in bulk.

I wish I had bookmarked an article by some economist I came across the other day. He discussed some of the issues involved in bringing food stuff from far away. I always assumed that local was better, but it's more complicated than that. Overall it has some advantages for the global environment to use food stuff grown in high density operations rather than organic which usually needs more space to produce the same amounts.
Another big point was that the biggest fossil fuel factor in food transportation is not the long distance shipping by ship, rail or even truck, but the countless individual trips by the consumer. Take the SUV to the store for just a couple of items, etc. So most likely planning shopping trips efficiently (shortest route to hit the different stores), minimizing the number of trips by stocking up on items has a bigger benefit for the environment than just not buying Fiji water.

 

[goodtimes]

As to GT's point about bottles, I was also wondering if they really bottle the stuff down there rather than bringing it in bulk.

Fiji's website claims they have an on-site blow molding facility (it is on the FAQ page). My initial thought was that they shipped it here in bulk, and bottled it in a domestic plant, where the FDA has a bit more oversight, and therefor eases the whole process...apparently not.

 

[calamaridog]

Even though the article is full of holes, the reality is that we Americans buy way too much bottled water. Seriously, it kills me when my mother brings a flat of bottled water up to her house in the MOUNTAINS:exclaim:

Then my wife drinks the stuff.

Then my 3 y.o. thinks it is somehow better than the water daddy gets her out of the tap in the MOUNTAINS.

Seriously, I bet the tap water coming out COLD and CLEAN in the MOUNTAINS is better than the crap in the little plastic bottles.

I've bought some nice water bottles for refills and placed them in the fridge. Hope this cuts down on the maddness.

I think I have issues:drool: