First Fuso FM from RUF Inc

haven

Expedition Leader
Darrin Fink and RUF Inc. have started production of expo vehicles using the Fuso FM chassis. Darrin modifies the 26,000 lb GVWR FM to have a drive axle in front, and then builds an expedition cabin out back.

RUFFm3.jpg


The first RUF FM was delivered this summer, and a second is under construction. For details see the RUF Inc web page,

http://www.ruf-inc.com/aatrecfm.htm

Michel Krzyzanowski came across the first RUF FM expo vehicle. Michel met the owners, took several photos of the interior and exterior, and he makes several critical comments about the RUF Inc design. Michel has asked that no material be copied from his blog, so I'll just post the link

http://michelszulckrzyzanowski.blogspot.com/2008/09/firm-fm.html

Chip Haven
 

kerry

Expedition Leader
Hmmmm? Most of his points seem pretty legit to me, but there are different strokes for different folks on some of them.
 

BigAl

Expedition Leader
That is definitely a cool rig. I'm eager to see Michel Krzyzanowski's build too.:smilies27
 

Lynn

Expedition Leader
Overland Hadley said:
Nice Fuso, but Michel brings up some design points (flaws?) that seem very basic.

Well, as we know there are always different perspectives. Having built exactly 0 overland rigs, let me say up-front that I'm no expert.

However, let's take Mr. Krzyzanowski statement that it's better to have large windows / lots of ventilation. I think that's probably true in an area where you have a nice breeze, but otherwise may not be.

Look at the Unicat, ActionMobil, ect. rigs. They all have small windows. I thought that it was primarily for security, but a member here who IS experienced in overland travel in a large rig corrected me. He pointed out that walls are much easier to insulate than windows.

I should have shared this perspective since I used to live in a small house with few windows and no air conditioning. If I opened up the windows at night, and closed them during the day, the house stayed nice and cool all day without AC.

Of course, this also holds true if you are camping in a cold environment. Walls are easier to insulate than windows.

Personally, I don't want to feel 'boxed in,' and dream of grand vistas, in a comfortable environment, so I want large windows AND a generator running a big honkin' AC!!
 

dhackney

Expedition Leader
In general, I think it really helps to go out and live in a camper for a month or two to build a list of practical requirements for a design before you begin one of these projects. Optimally, you'd do it overseas so you would have some experience with what the realities are outside the USA.

Based on living in our vehicle full time for 15 months out of the last 16, 8 of those overseas, I agree with Michel's assessment on the items he mentions, with the possible exception of window size. Assuming they are double or triple pane, the windows seem to be adequate based on eyeballing the photos.

Regarding his other comments:
  • You DO NOT want to listen to a genset and an AC unit roar for hours on end. Lots of ventilation is a good idea and multiple roof vents are a requirement. I think one for the kitchen/dinette area, one for the bathroom and one for the berth would be a minimum. IMO they should all include fans.
  • Security is a real issue, even given the "locks keep honest people out" rule. If you have your compartments locked people generally don't mess with them. Something that is open or easily opened invites trouble. IMO, every exterior access panel should/must be locked or closed with anti-tamper screws.
  • Rock damage is a reality out here in the real world. If all you are going to do is drive down interstates from one pull-through-site campground to the next, no issue, but I doubt you'd buy one of these vehicles for that purpose. An area like Baja or Patagonia or your average chicken bus road will destroy anything not covered with a rock guard. Even a simple aluminum panel of decent guage will work, but you've got to cover things up on the underside of the vehicle.
  • A screen door is a true no brainer. Anyone who has camped for more than a weekend would insist on one.

One thing I would add is the lack of an awning. Although Stephen Stewart recommends deleting them and I fully expected that every European rig would be without one, they are ubiquitous and heavily used outside of Patagonia where the winds preclude them. We use ours quite a bit and all the other overlanders I've spoken with do as well. They are worth the weight, especially on a chassis as heavy duty as the FM.

I would also change the spare tire to a European style under-chassis crank system. It is much cleaner, more secure and I think potentially easier to use.

For overseas use, I would fit a European tow bar and tow slots/hooks on each end of the vehicle. If I had it to do over again, I'd delete our winches and use this system.

One good feature of the design is a side door. A rear door is always covered with dirt. It adds work and time to stopping every night plus precludes carrying a bike or anything on the rear.

The upside to all of this is that apart from the widow size, all of these issues are relatively easy to retrofit or correct, even the vents.

Another upside is that in series production you can make changes as you go along.

In my experience Darrin is a very professional person, so I anticipate he will correct these issues in subsequent vehicles.
 

Sleeping Dog

Adventurer
Ruf

Maybe its just me, but is anyone else concerned about wandering off to remote places in a vehicle that has custom made, for the manufacturer sub components that are a potential point of failure? i.e. "RUF's custom-built Dana," maybe I worry too much.

Jim
 

haven

Expedition Leader
"change the spare tire to a European style under-chassis crank system"

This one may be difficult without redesigning the placement of other
systems. Fink shortens the FM's frame by 40 inches behind the rear
axle, removing the space that might normally be used for the spare.

I'm curious about the springs used. Information on the FM chassis
page on Fink's web site makes it likely the original FM springs are
retained. That sounds like overkill for a vehicle that weighs between
18 and 20,000 lbs.

Chip Haven
 

HINO SG

Adventurer
I'm working on a camper roughly the same dimentions as the RUF FUSO.

Another thing about large windows- in addition to security concerns- it makes the layout of the interior much more demanding. At the moment, mine has 5x 8" port holes (from a marine shop), and if I need to rearrange the interior, patching over the hole would be easy and painless.

In my case, anything more than moderatly warm weather is a long way off; the fuel cost of a trip from Minnesota to Baja and back these days would be close to two months of my take-home pay(!). And as mentioned, unless you can afford the good stuff, windows are an insulation problem.
 

dhackney

Expedition Leader
RE: spares

I forgot to mention that I wouldn't go anywhere without two spares. We lost two tires in the same place/same road the other day.

We were cliffside on a single lane chicken bus road, so I was very thankful to have two good, mounted spares ready to go.


Chip,

Understood on placement. I would probably consider it a design priority and adjust accordingly.

Departure angle is not what people make it to be out here. You don't need the severe angles a lot of people design and build. When you look at what people are actually out overlanding in versus what people spend a lot of time and energy designing and building it really makes you wonder.

I put roller wheels on the back of our frame for ferrys, etc. and they have yet to make contact.

I'd rather have two bottom mounted spares and a little more frame rail aft of the rear axle than have a single, high mounted spare adversely affecting CG, etc.

Doug
 

Robthebrit

Explorer
How do you deal with spares when you have dual rears? Are both rims on the rear different to each other and then they are different again from the front rims?

I guess you get comfortable with the tire irons.

Rob
 

whatcharterboat

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Spares and awnings

Wheels on Fuso trucks are the same all-round. One spare fits all. I also think 2 spares is a minimum for anything doing extended travel in remote areas as
Doug says.

(BTW Doug sorry I have'nt done that "Fuso mechanic inteview" post I promised before you got back. Soon.)


Some pics of how we tackle spares. One thing we are trying to do now is have the spares swinging out to the side so that if you are towing a trailer the spares won't foul on the tow hitch when you need 'em. I mentioned that we are developing a new "production" expo truck at the moment and it will have this new style of spare wheel rack. Have the prototype rack mostly fabbed up but the challenge for us right now is coming up with a foolproof mechanism to raise and lower the wheels. The last one that threw to the sides was spring assisted but we are still trying to improve on this.

The racks on the tour buses use the factory crank system under a drop down table. The tables are used a couple of times a day for serving smoko, afternoon tea etc. so they have to be easily accessible. Either spring assisted or pneumatic. The other units are hydraulic and that was primarily because when we set up the hydraulic winches front and rear there is always auxiliary ports in the hydraulic manifold left over for these types of options. They are operated by a cordless remote. On the green truck the outboard motor and the Rokon come down with the wheels. Hydraulics do it easy but require some trick valving so that they don’t run away on the way down.

Pneamatics are also easy to set up especially if you already have air brakes (Just make sure you use the right safety regulator so that the rams can’t take too much air out of the system if there is a leak. Check with the powers that be. DOT and manufacturer.)

Regards
John


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As for awnings, they do a great job of reducing the heat in the truck by shading the sides of the truck and especially the window areas. Can't imagine not having one. Two is even better.

ry%3D320
 

Tom_D

Observer
Krzyanowski's comments

FYI:

Michel has never talked to me -- I own Darrin's FG Camper. Virtually none of his criticisms are true for the FG model.

The camper has lockable compartments all around.
The propane tank in in a locked under camper box.
The water tank never leaks even on the roughest roads.
The door has a screen.

Yes the roof air conditioner needs the gen -- like all AC units. The height with AC in under 11 feet (just). We almost never use the roof AC because most of our travels have been in the north. However we are planning a trip to Moab and I suspect we may appreciate the AC there.

The windows are small, like many expedition campers, but this is not an issue. I almost purchased a Geo-services Unimog camper before I bought the FUSO and the Geo-service camper had big windows. I thought I might like the large windows but the cosy feeling of Darrin's camper is nice too, especially in the winter.

The real proof is in living in the camper for weeks. We are comfortable and have plenty of room for food and supplies. I carry two mounted spares -- one inside the rear (lockable) compartment and the other on the top of the cab in the rack. The FG wheels are small enough to be handled without elaborate system as required on my unimogs. Darrin did provide a winch mount on the roof but I have not used it.

The only real problems we have had are with the sietz windows -- the window screen are not bug tight. In the Yukon we had to double screen the windows to keep out the mosquitoes. The screens roll up and down on a track and do not completely seal. When there are a million mosquitoes buzzing out side a few will find their way in. We now tape a temp screen on the inside if we are in bug country in season. It is funny how just a couple of those guys buzzing around will ruin your sleep...

The only modifications I have made to Darrin's design are to remove the big bumper, hydraulic system and winch. This took 700 pounds off the vehicle. I also changed the front seats to softer suspension seats. I run a smaller water tank that Darrin supplied (60 gals vs.80 gals) to give me room to stow an air compressor for my air tools required for me to change the wheels (I recommend that any FG own see if he can actually loosen the lugs without an impact wrench -- I couldn't, even with a five foot cheater!). Also I changed the shower drain system to eliminate the need for a sump pump. I may change this back... I also added a muffler to the ESPAR heater (works well).

One last thing -- based on the price Krzyanowski published for his FG camper ($117) I paid less even including GPS and the hydraulic winch/bumper system.

Tom_D
 

kerry

Expedition Leader
Tom_D said:
FYI:

Michel has never talked to me -- I own Darrin's FG Camper. Virtually none of his criticisms are true for the FG model.

The camper has lockable compartments all around.
The propane tank in in a locked under camper box.
The water tank never leaks even on the roughest roads.
The door has a screen.

Yes the roof air conditioner needs the gen -- like all AC units. The height with AC in under 11 feet (just). We almost never use the roof AC because most of our travels have been in the north. However we are planning a trip to Moab and I suspect we may appreciate the AC there.

The windows are small, like many expedition campers, but this is not an issue. I almost purchased a Geo-services Unimog camper before I bought the FUSO and the Geo-service camper had big windows. I thought I might like the large windows but the cosy feeling of Darrin's camper is nice too, especially in the winter.

The real proof is in living in the camper for weeks. We are comfortable and have plenty of room for food and supplies. I carry two mounted spares -- one inside the rear (lockable) compartment and the other on the top of the cab in the rack. The FG wheels are small enough to be handled without elaborate system as required on my unimogs. Darrin did provide a winch mount on the roof but I have not used it.

The only real problems we have had are with the sietz windows -- the window screen are not bug tight. In the Yukon we had to double screen the windows to keep out the mosquitoes. The screens roll up and down on a track and do not completely seal. When there are a million mosquitoes buzzing out side a few will find their way in. We now tape a temp screen on the inside if we are in bug country in season. It is funny how just a couple of those guys buzzing around will ruin your sleep...

The only modifications I have made to Darrin's design are to remove the big bumper, hydraulic system and winch. This took 700 pounds off the vehicle. I also changed the front seats to softer suspension seats. I run a smaller water tank that Darrin supplied (60 gals vs.80 gals) to give me room to stow an air compressor for my air tools required for me to change the wheels (I recommend that any FG own see if he can actually loosen the lugs without an impact wrench -- I couldn't, even with a five foot cheater!). Also I changed the shower drain system to eliminate the need for a sump pump. I may change this back... I also added a muffler to the ESPAR heater (works well).

One last thing -- based on the price Krzyanowski published for his FG camper ($117) I paid less even including GPS and the hydraulic winch/bumper system.

Tom_D

Did you try a torque multiplier on the lugnuts? I plan on using one for my FG to avoid the need for compressed air but I've never actually used it on the vehicle.

Curious for more info on your suspension seats. I put a Stratos in place of the driver's seat in mine but I'm looking to add two more in place of the bench and am wondering what seats you used and where you got them. And even if the ones you removed are for sale.

I didn't see you misreading anything. I thought you were commenting on your FG as compared to the new FM.

Kerry
 

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