Ford Takes @ $20 BILLION ‘Write Down’ and Dumps the EV F-150 Lightning

[Ex Animo]

The facts prove you wrong, the facts are that EV sales have plateaued in America, EV models are being dropped while ICE vehicles are being brought back from the dust bin.

Then you devolve into a nonsensical rant about what you think about me based on what you have read here on the portal, so sad yet so typical of users who rave about EV's yet don't actually own one, as proven by your own posts here.

What makes you any different, do you own an EV? A handful of users come into the EV threads to troll about how dumb they think they are or how the guberment is forcing them upon everyone. SimplyAnAdventure is the only person to offer up their experience with the vehicle this very thread is about yet has been ignored and only got a few thumbs up while the naysayers get far more likes. Ex Portal should just do away with the electric vehicle forum, it's clear that the few users who can't offer anything but negativity won't let it be.

As far as "EV's don't work for the majority of Americans" that is only true in culture not in capabilities. Most homes have multiple cars, one of them could easily be an EV.

'According to data from the U.S. Department of Transportation, 95.1 percent of trips taken in personal vehicles are less than 31 miles; almost 60 percent of all trips are less than 6 miles. In total, the average U.S. driver only covers about 37 miles per day.'

 

[Gravelette]

Pearls before swine, facts don't matter to some of these goobers. So full of hate and fear they've swallowed the anti-science kool-aid and are proud of their ignorance.

 

[NevadaLover]

What makes you any different, do you own an EV?

If you read the previous posts in this thread I never ranted about how important EV's are and how the US needs to embrace EV's and get away from ICE vehicles, all while not owning an EV, that's for the hypocrite to do.

Fact is that there isn't an EV made yet that meets my requirements, when one is made that does that I will take a serious look at it.

Pearls before swine, facts don't matter to some of these goobers. So full of hate and fear they've swallowed the anti-science kool-aid and are proud of their ignorance.

And here's the hypocrite making more ignorant claims and accusations that he can't quote or prove, typical hypocrite behavior.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

The EV market is far from dead, there are several factors at play here and you can't take a narrow focus on a worldwide industry.

-US EV sale are down 1% from last year, globally they are up 21%
-For November of this year all new car sales are down 6.7% in the US
-The $7,500 tax credit expired in September, a lot of people bought early this year before that expired
-There is a lot of uncertainty in the US about the economy, people are holding off on large purchases, killing off a $60K-$80K luxury vehicle might just be reading the economic tea leaves.
-The current administration has started an all out war against all things renewable and US automakers rely heavily on government subsidies.

BEV's are a budding technology that have exploded into the market over a short period of time, there are bound to be growing pains. Add in the decades of policy, marketing and fluctuating fuel prices and the US is in an arms race of building bigger and more expensive cars. Just look at the top selling vehicles in the US, they are all mostly full-size trucks which are not cheap to outfit with a battery big enough to push all that mass. The Chevy Bolt flew off the lots and yet they killed it since the profit margins aren't as big as more expensive trucks and SUV's.



Charging infrastructure in my experience hasn't been much of a issue and is getting better but yeah there are still short comings. Tesla having the largest charging infrastructure is problematic and will hurt all EV owners in the future. Most people charge at home anyway and only use public charging on road trips. My Bolt costs me $30 month to charge, that's pretty cheap compared to my Tacoma.

I feel the US hasn't adopted EV's as the future because of culture war BS, they have become a "us vs them" hotbed issue. It's sad because the US and US automakers are going to be far behind in technology and foreign auto companies will have a major advantage. It really makes you wonder what the long-term thinking is here, we all know that fossil fuels are not an infinite resource, environmental concerns aside oil will become harder and harder to get. What happens 20-50-100 years from now?



Hybrids can be problematic when the auto maker builds a crappy drivetrain but that's true for non-hybrid vehicle too. The most recent Consumer Reports reliability findings show that hybrid cars, on average, come with 26 percent fewer issues than their gasoline-powered cousins. That doesn't include plug-in hybrids which appear to be less reliable than standard hybrids.



I am excited for the vehicles like Scout are making for this reason. This is a "expedition" forum after all but the vast majority of car owners never put their TRD pro in low-range or use the lockers on their wrangler.

Chevy Bolt due to return to market after a redesign

 

[ThundahBeagle]

An all electric work truck is just stupid. And the car makers were pretty much forced into doing it.
A hybrid, and I like diesel for a fuel source over gasoline for the engine is the way to go.

Ford should have done the hybrid F150 right from the go.
Then they wouldn't need to write off so much and probably would have had a fair amount of sales.

In my opinion the US hasnt adopted EV lifestyle because it simply does not suit many of us. Percentage of European land mass that is city vs percentage of US land mass that is city...that just means that there is by necessity more rugged individualism outside of the city, and it is simply harder to use an EV truck where trucks are needed most - contractors, farmers, ranchers. Granted I am none of those things but yes, an unsupported 400+ mile range is EXPECTED and needed, even just for commuters.

City driving? Sure it makes much more sense, but then, we are also trying to make sure city dwellers have more public rail and bus transport.

So, it's just a hard sell to go hard into EV.

Toyota has said as much, if anyone was lisfening.. hybrid makes more sense in thier eyes, and as it happens, in my eyes as well.

Then again, Chevy went hybrid with the Silverado and the Tahoe back in the GMT 900 years and whether thier approach was wrong or the timing was off, it just didnt work out. I beleive had they stuck with it, they'd be well ahead of the curve in hybrid trucks today as Toyota is with the Prius.

Free charging at work is great. But theres no such thing as a free lunch. Someone is paying for that, even if it's not you directly. And as others have pointed out, and as played out in a conversation I had with an owner of a GMC Sierra EV extended range owner: where charging is not free, it can cost near as much to charge a truck as it does to fill a gas one at current (see what I did there?) prices.

Norway likes to brag about its EV adoption rate but they subsidize that with thier oil production and sales. It's just so hard to really peel back all of the layers of this, that it makes it easier to go with the tried and true I guess.

as for service costs, I'm sure if we all went EV tomorrow there are items that will always require repair for any motor - after all, these EV's still run on motors. It wont take long for the manufacturers to figure out what has been under-engineered and what has been over- engineered so that built- in issues arise on a routine enough basis they will become profitable.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Good for Ford!

Now they have a far less need to hire those 5,000 additional mechanics the Idiot running Ford says they need!

I read that article and seriously considered changing vocations.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

It's Chevrolet's turn to the give the electric truck/van a go!

Site Maintenance

Chevy already makes the most capable EV work truck on the market. They just also put it in a format that prohibits use of existing crossbox diamond deck toolboxes, prohibits the use of existing truck box racks, and made it prohibitively expensive for those contractors just starting out, or even those who have already been in business for years.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The most annoying part of EV's is everybody assuming that everybody's needs are the same as your own. That goes both ways.

City people that don't travel much... an EV would be great.

Rural people that do varied things with their vehicles and need range to get anywhere... not so much.

In my opinion the US hasnt adopted EV lifestyle because it simply does not suit many of us. Percentage of European land mass that is city vs percentage of US land mass that is city...that just means that there is by necessity more rugged individualism outside of the city, and it is simply harder to use an EV truck where trucks are needed most - contractors, farmers, ranchers. Granted I am none of those things but yes, an unsupported 400+ mile range is EXPECTED and needed, even just for commuters.

City driving? Sure it makes much more sense, but then, we are also trying to make sure city dwellers have more public rail and bus transport.

So, it's just a hard sell to go hard into EV.

Toyota has said as much, if anyone was lisfening.. hybrid makes more sense in thier eyes, and as it happens, in my eyes as well.

Then again, Chevy went hybrid with the Silverado and the Tahoe back in the GMT 900 years and whether thier approach was wrong or the timing was off, it just didnt work out. I beleive had they stuck with it, they'd be well ahead of the curve in hybrid trucks today as Toyota is with the Prius.

Free charging at work is great. But theres no such thing as a free lunch. Someone is paying for that, even if it's not you directly. And as others have pointed out, and as played out in a conversation I had with an owner of a GMC Sierra EV extended range owner: where charging is not free, it can cost near as much to charge a truck as it does to fill a gas one at current (see what I did there?) prices.

Norway likes to brag about its EV adoption rate but they subsidize that with thier oil production and sales. It's just so hard to really peel back all of the layers of this, that it makes it easier to go with the tried and true I guess.

as for service costs, I'm sure if we all went EV tomorrow there are items that will always require repair for any motor - after all, these EV's still run on motors. It wont take long for the manufacturers to figure out what has been under-engineered and what has been over- engineered so that built- in issues arise on a routine enough basis they will become profitable.

Toyota held Ford's hand with the hybrid Escapes way back when and the plug in Fusion's not that terribly long ago. Ford ditched all that and tried to full EV...

I read that article and seriously considered changing vocations.

The CEO's claims were about as out of touch as one would expect CEO's claims to be. There are reasons they can't find anyone and it isn't because nobody wants to work anymore.

The techs don't even work for Ford, each dealer is its own business. Many techs are tired of drama at the dealer level and a fair bit of that comes from Ford.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

What makes you any different, do you own an EV? A handful of users come into the EV threads to troll about how dumb they think they are or how the guberment is forcing them upon everyone. SimplyAnAdventure is the only person to offer up their experience with the vehicle this very thread is about yet has been ignored and only got a few thumbs up while the naysayers get far more likes. Ex Portal should just do away with the electric vehicle forum, it's clear that the few users who can't offer anything but negativity won't let it be.

As far as "EV's don't work for the majority of Americans" that is only true in culture not in capabilities. Most homes have multiple cars, one of them could easily be an EV.

True most homes have more than one car. Absolutely. They also dont NEED thier second car to be an EV if they dont want it to be. And obviously, most folks dont want it to be. They want the second car to do what they need it to do, not what you want it to be.

When ele trics can do what ICE vehicles can do, for a similar price (not right now) and better operating costs (ok maybe this is there), then they will be widely adopted. Maybe in 5 or ten years. Maybe 20, who knows. But I DO know with certainty, that if everything runs on electric, your low charging cost is going to go sky high, so that "fueling vs charging" cost will be cancelled out. Which will hopefully leave the maintenance costs to be a bastion of ost savings to the buyer.

I dont even own a hybrid but they seem to make the most sense to me

 

[Gravelette]

Hybrids do make sense in the short term. We've had two Prius, 60 mpg, little scheduled maintenance and the most reliable cars I've ever owned. The hybrid trucks and larger SUVs seem to be designed for power and don't gain much in mileage. What some of these "death to the EV" fanboys don't seem to understand is that using ICEs in the long term isn't an option. The science is there, they are going away. Speaking of gov't subsidies, what's the price tag for our latest military adventure on behalf of oil?

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The hybrid trucks and larger SUVs seem to be designed for power and don't gain much in mileage.

Which is doing better than EV trucks that basically can't tow anything any respectable distance.

The more modern proposed ones that basically have a built in generator from Ram and Ford, those sound interesting.

Unless something drastic happens with batteries IMO EV's have plateaued. Decent commuter cars and short range pickups and that's about it.

Gas isn't the future but I don't think electric is either.

 

[NevadaLover]

Hybrids do make sense in the short term. We've had two Prius, 60 mpg, little scheduled maintenance and the most reliable cars I've ever owned. The hybrid trucks and larger SUVs seem to be designed for power and don't gain much in mileage. What some of these "death to the EV" fanboys don't seem to understand is that using ICEs in the long term isn't an option. The science is there, they are going away. Speaking of gov't subsidies, what's the price tag for our latest military adventure on behalf of oil?

Another imaginary claim, no one in this thread has said anything like this imaginary "death to the EV" as you say, and again you talk about how ICE engines are not a long term option yet you still have ICE engines and no EV, why is that? Practice what you preach there reverend.

 

[Fenderfour]

I've had an EV for three years, a Tesla model 3. It is easily the most reliable car I've ever owned, which has been a bunch of Subarus, a Toyota, and a Honda. Sure, there have been recalls on the car, and all of them have been fixed by over the air software updates. The only work the 3 has needed is to refill the windshield washer fluid. I haven't even needed new tires because I commute and drive it reasonably. Traffic lights are not drag strips.

The best part is that I almost never need to go to a gas station. I charge at home 99% of the time. My daily commute is ~80 miles. I don't need to go 240 miles in one trip. I suspect veeeeery few people do. When I do need to take a longer trip, My car tells me when/where to charge. Charging at home costs a fraction of what Gas would cost. Supercharging on longer trips is about the same as gas costs. It doesn't really need to be, but capitalism is what it is.

The overall issue with EV's isn't requirements, it's cultural. The US is car culture. We are somewhat defined by what we drive. We don't make vehicle decisions based on logic. We make them based on our emotions and we call it logic to create a solid argument to buy a jeep that doesn't go off road or a superduty truck to commute to work.

EDITED - wasn't quite finished

Culturally, we weren't into EVs because they didn't have an appealing image until Tesla came along. The Model S was faster than anything under a million dollars, the model three was even something regular people could afford.

The really important thing for EVs is efficiency. That 240 mile range is completed with the energy that is found in 2.5 gallons of gasoline. That efficiency comes from simple systems creating motive force. There is no reciprocation, just a motor and a controller. It's a giant electric drill when it comes down to it.

Sure, adoption is going poorly now. Lots of folks have solid reasons for not trying an EV. Lots of folks kept horses instead of switching to a motor vehicle.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

Hybrids do make sense in the short term. We've had two Prius, 60 mpg, little scheduled maintenance and the most reliable cars I've ever owned. The hybrid trucks and larger SUVs seem to be designed for power and don't gain much in mileage. What some of these "death to the EV" fanboys don't seem to understand is that using ICEs in the long term isn't an option. The science is there, they are going away. Speaking of gov't subsidies, what's the price tag for our latest military adventure on behalf of oil?

Well, bringing current events politics into this should not be where you are going. Beleive me when I tell you, in the electrified future, the same tactics will be employed for the litium and other rare earth minerals needed for solar panels or windmill blades. So, dont shoot your argument in the foot about latest military adventures, they will surely continue no matter what the fuel or propulsion.

As for hybrids, I like them. I like the Prius, the GMT900 ones should have stayed in production and been refined. But they are truly an ICE engine AND batt system, so the standard engine maintenance still applies but the fuel economy is so nice

 

[Todd780]

City people that don't travel much... an EV would be great.

And not always that. I'm not really doing long trips anymore. Just work commute. However, I live in a Condo w/ underground parking; No plug in. There are also no plug ins at my work sooo ICE it is for me. A hybrid would work as well. Really don't feel like sitting at a charging station for anywhere between 45 minutes to 2 hours.