Fuel Cans - Poly VS Steel

[Jr_Explorer]

If the CARB spout is a solid disk that gets pushed out along the axis of the spout so the gas comes out radially (Does that make sense?) it is USELESS to fuel a modern vehicle. The gas just shoots right back out of the fill neck of the vehicle. So you need a long, thin funnel. Hold the funnel, wrestle the 5 gallon can in the air AND pull back the CARB spout. It's a two man job. The easiest solution is set the can on the roof, remove the spout completely and use a Super Siphon. Works like a champ. This tip comes from bob91yj

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Pour spouts.

Are you using the MFC spout with the vent holes line up properly? I've found no issues filling from them and no discernible difference over/under the Nato style can having owned and used both. I've transitioned to all Scepter MFC's as I prefer the plastic, no issues with rust/corrosion, light, durable. I think the same arguments could be made for the NATO with the exception of corrosion issues. Fwiw I'm referring only to legit NATO style cans and Scepter MFC's, not their consumer grade stuff (thin-walled) that may have a similar shape but a completely different function.

 

[ZG]

The steel gas cans I have are from England and have the flip top. They're commonly called NATO cans and are available all over the world. Except for Canada and USA of course, due to the EPA and child-safety laws. Because they are unobtainium they become more desirable.

NATO flip-top cans are very easy to use, and are rated to not leak after a 10m drop. They are available with a spout that clips to the outside of the can. Convenient, but prone to dirt contamination if stored outside the truck. When stored inside a vehicle, there is no fuel smell.

I also use a safety siphon (jiggle siphon) with the marble-valve at one end. Just be sure to wipe it clean before and after use to keep dirt out of your fuel.

Plastic cans are meh. They work and are cheap, but tend to smell like gas when stored inside vehicles. The military ones are better, but the lids are very hard to open when tightened enough that they don't leak.

We sell them regularly, NATO cans are very popular.

http://landroverparts.roversnorth.com/Products.aspx?code=571&key=cat

 

[Martinjmpr]

I don't think the breakdown is so much "metal vs. plastic" as it is "light duty vs. heavy duty."

To the OP, those plastic "blitz" cans that you buy at the hardware store are designed to hold fuel for your lawnmower, snow blower, etc. They're perfectly adequate for that use and there's a reason you can get them for $20 or less.

But throwing one of those in or on a vehicle for an extended trip where it's going to be exposed to extremes of temperature, sunlight (which can break down cheap plastic) and so on is asking for trouble, because a can like that is more likely to fail under those circumstances. Now, by "fail" I don't neccessarily mean it will break open, but it could leak, vent vapors, etc, all of which could be bad depending on the situation you're in. I had a cheap blitz can that I took off roading when I had my Tacoma. With the pickup, it worked fine because I kept it in the bed and when I stopped for the night, I took it out and set it on the ground. However, when I switched to an SUV and had only one "cabin", I realized very quickly that unless I had some way of mounting it to the outside of my vehicle, the fumes would be unbearable in very short order and potentially dangerous.

You can't lay cans like that on their side because they leak and if you mount them outside, heat will cause them to expand and then the cool night air will cause them to contract, again this increases the leakage and vapor problems.

After a couple of trips where I tried various things like wrapping the cans in multiple black plastic trash bags, I finally broke down and got some decent plastic cans made by RotoPax. RotoPax cans are red plastic like the blitz cans but at that point the resemblance ends: The RP cans are very heavy, thick plastic and are extremely tough. They are designed to me mounted on the outside of vehicles and expansion/contraction/vibration affect them very little if at all. I had a set of RP cans on the roof of my 4runner on the last 2 DE trips and they didn't leak a drop, despite being mounted on their sides and despite the fact that temperatures ranged from the high 30's to the low 90's.

The only negative to the RP cans besides price (3 gallon cans were $80/each) is the stupid CARB spouts, but that was easily cured by the aftermarket (I guess legally they have to sell the can with a CARB compliant spout but they can then sell you, separately, a non-carb spout that works much better.)

The NATO Scepter cans are also much, much, MUCH thicker plastic than the Blitz can. I've used those a lot in the Army and never had any problems with them as long as the lid was screwed on tight.

As for metal cans, I don't really have much experience outside the military with them. I know lots of people run the slick looking green NATO cans and like them just fine.

 

[highdesertranger]

i have never spilled so much gas than I have had with these carb = cr*p cans. why do we as citizens put up with this carb (California air resources board) junk they are pawning off on us. the screws are being put to us in so many ways. this is just one example. highdesertranger

 

[4x4overlander]

Steel v plastic fuel cans?

The majority of steel fuel cans in Europe are based on a Second World War German design hence why they are referred to as Jerry cans (Jerry = slang for German)

Modern steel cans mainly carry a UN/Nato number.

If people get a serious 'blow back' when opening these cans then in general terms they have been overfilled! They will take 20 litres and have a decent expansion space. Put more then 20 litres in, then expansion/vapour space is taken up with liquid fuel and you will definitely get 'blow back' when opening the can.

In the UK there is no specifications for the construction of plastic fuel cans!

The cheap ones will expand and contract with changes in temperature and/or pressure. This can cause them to leak fumes. Drop some of the cheap plastic container when full onto a corner and they will split.

Have not used the Scepter plastic cans, we use the steel fuel cans which are available in 5/10/20 litre size. The 5 litre ones are good for carrying petrol for cooking stoves in a diesel vehicle.

Going slightly off topic what is the range of your vehicles before resorting to fuel cans?

Brendan

 

[SiliconTi]

I have and use both. I prefer poly, as I've had to toss out too many rusted out steel cans. If my current can holder could use polys, I'd switch in a heartbeat.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Going slightly off topic what is the range of your vehicles before resorting to fuel cans?

Brendan

Depends on the vehicle and where we're traveling. There are lots of places out West where gas stations can be 150 miles apart, especially if you are driving off-road and aren't passing through the towns. Also, it's not uncommon for a map to show a "town" that is actually nothing more than a collection of deserted buildings - unless you know ahead of time, you can't assume there will be gas there just because the map shows a "town."

My 3rd gen 4runner with its 18.5 gallon tank had pretty marginal range, IMO. On the highway it could go maybe 300 miles if I wasn't pulling a trailer but start to go off road and that drops dramatically to less than 200. For that reason I started carrying a pair of RotoPax 3 gallon fuel cans that laid flat on my roof rack and never leaked a drop, despite the temps fluctuating wildly and a lot of bouncing around.

My current 4th gen 4runner has a much larger tank (23 gal) and a more efficient engine, so despite being bigger and heavier, actually has pretty respectable range. I still carry the cans but I don't "need" them.

The biggest problem with modern fuel cans in America is that the CARB compliant fuel spouts are a total PITA to use and sometimes they just flat out fail, making it difficult to pour gas into the vehicle's tank. (CARB is the California Air Resources Board which mandates these complicated spouts supposedly to reduce emissions from fuel cans.) Since CA is such a huge market (1 in 9 Americans lives in California) any manufacturer of fuel cans finds it easier to make all their cans CARB compliant rather than make one set for California and another set for those of us in the other 49 states.

 

[Martinjmpr]

i have never spilled so much gas than I have had with these carb = cr*p cans. why do we as citizens put up with this carb (California air resources board) junk they are pawning off on us. the screws are being put to us in so many ways. this is just one example. highdesertranger

Yes, let's start a revolution! Up against the wall, CARB tyrants!

Or just buy a non-CARB spout. That works, too.

I actually pulled the spout off my pre-CARB blitz can (the cheapo plastic can that the OP posted in his first picture) and put it in a ziploc bag. When I need to fuel up, the CARB spout on my Rotopax comes off and the cheap straight spout goes on - no problems. When all is done the CARB spout and cap go back on my RotoPax (the spout is a neccessary part of the cap) and the non-CARB spout goes into the zip loc. Easy and efficient.

 

[Buliwyf]

I use 5g motocross fuel jugs. Simple pipe fittings and a hose.
-
The EPA cans leak, vent, and spill more fuel than any other type of jug I've ever seen. How is that good for the enviroment? Just the classic stupidity that is becoming the USA.

 

[4x4overlander]

Depends on the vehicle and where we're traveling. There are lots of places out West where gas stations can be 150 miles apart, especially if you are driving off-road and aren't passing through the towns. Also, it's not uncommon for a map to show a "town" that is actually nothing more than a collection of deserted buildings - unless you know ahead of time, you can't assume there will be gas there just because the map shows a "town."

Blimey Martin, I strongly suggest you do not go to Australia then! Distance between fuel stations can be up to 400-600 miles!


One of our vehicles has 170 litre tanks which ok, depending on terrain and driving style can have a range of 850- 1,000 miles before resorting to fuel cans.

Another one has about 125 litres which ok, depending on terrain and driving style can have a range of 600-750 miles before resorting to fuel cans. Slightly better fuel consumption.


I have never had a steel jerry can rust out and prefer them over the cheap plastic ones commonly available in the UK.



Brendan

 

[Cabrito]

I think I go against the grain in this thread, but my observations are only based on my own personal usage.

I've used several different types over the past 20 years.

First big trip through Mexico I had an old Jerry Can – US type that leaked like crazy out of the top. I'm sure a new gasket might have remedied it, but I was young and dumb. The pour spout was also a nightmare.

I then moved on to basic auto parts store plastic cans that would also leak when pouring and didn't seal well enough to put into the back of the truck with the camper shell because of fumes. You also couldn't lay them down on the roof rack so there was that problem. I went through a few different cans trying to find something at least 5gallons that was low profile to put on the roof rack.

In this pic the gas can and water can are strapped to the roof on their sides after They were emptied in Baja.

Then came my introduction to iH8Mud and Expo where I discovered Scepter Cans!! I could never get mine to seal and they would leak fumes. I also had to devise all sorts of ways to get them open after tightening the lids so hard to try to get them to not leak fumes. I never went to find the Viton seals and sold the cans. This was all back when not many vendors sold the Viton Seals or the Pour Spouts. The nifty lid tool that is out there now a days was not around yet either. By this time I'd also moved onto a FJ62 Land Cruiser and wanted to occasionally put a can inside instead of on the roof rack. 20L cans are tough for me to get up on the roof and no fun when holding them to transferring the fuel into the vehicle. I really like the Scepters because they are so heavy duty and won't rust. I'd still consider getting some 10L if they even make them, but for now I'm set with what I'm using.

Then I went to the Wedco cans. I use the 10L and own six of them. Easy to get them on the roof. Low profile. Easy to pour. Never ever leak fumes, and don't leak when pouring if you do it right. Don't over fill them and they don't burb when opening. The first time I used them I did get gas all over my hand and shoe, and it leaked about two drops when pouring because I tilted it too far. These problems only happened the first time i used one. I can also put one inside my vehicle if needed, and never ever smell any fumes. I know that this is not kosher, and do not recommend anyone do this in their own vehicle.
I really like the can holders that RoverPartsNorth sells. http://landroverparts.roversnorth.c...10LTR---BLACK-NYLON-FINISH------------&key=it I own four of them. They go onto my roof rack in seconds and I can lock them. I also bolt them to the floor of my trailer. I make sure I keep them full at all times and cycle through them to keep the gas fresh. I'm hoping that this keeps them free from rust inside. I also try not to let them get dinged up. This is where the can holders come in real handy. My biggest concern is rust, but for my occasional light duty use these are the best thing I've come up with to date.

Close up of a pair of my red 10l cans on the rack.

Shot of my green cans on the rack.

 

[1911]

Going slightly off topic what is the range of your vehicles before resorting to fuel cans?

On the highway, my Land Cruiser will go 200-250 miles on a single tank. The problem is off-road; in 4WD and especially in low-range the fuel economy is much worse, and there are still lots of places in the western U.S. where it is easily possible to go for a week at a time without seeing a town or a petrol station. I've never calculated my fuel economy or range off-road, but I have limped into Needles Outpost just outside Canyonlands National Park on fumes, after using up all my jerry cans.

 

[Jr_Explorer]

The biggest problem with modern fuel cans in America is that the CARB compliant fuel spouts are a total PITA to use and sometimes they just flat out fail, making it difficult to pour gas into the vehicle's tank. (CARB is the California Air Resources Board which mandates these complicated spouts supposedly to reduce emissions from fuel cans.) Since CA is such a huge market (1 in 9 Americans lives in California) any manufacturer of fuel cans finds it easier to make all their cans CARB compliant rather than make one set for California and another set for those of us in the other 49 states.

Has nothing to do with the size of the market. Our wonderful Federal Government (in the guise of the Federal EPA) has mandated that ALL fuel cans sold in the US of A meet the C.A.R.B. requirements. That's why you can't buy Scepter cans in the US. So yay for California and yay for federal standardization (yes, read with dripping sarcasm)! I'm embarrassed for my State.

 

[esh]

Precisely this is why I built the FJ62 the way it is. 50 gallon main tank, 1HZ Toyota diesel with a turbo added, H55 5 speed, no roof rack garbage. 900 practical miles with some to spare, about 600-700 offroad depending on what is going on terrain-wise. It is fantastic. It also zips me up mountain passes with relative ease, weighing in at 6400lbs, about 2000 over stock curb. I have a modular 4x4Labs rear bumper and can add a 3-can carrier to get another 300 miles range if necessary. These are practical (always GPS measured) and extrapolated values based on 4 years and about 60,000 miles worth of exploration/offroad trips in the Western USA. Fantastic setup. Simple and super reliable. (knock on head)

I have surplus ABS poly cans that are about 20 years old from surplus stores ($20 then) when surplus places had good things to find. I leave them in carriers when in use and use Super Siphons to transfer fuel. Have gone through many permutations of cans and always come back to these Scepter/ABS cans.