Gladiator - Good/Bad?

[Dan Grec]

Maybe the overheating is dominant in Texas heat? Maybe it's fine there and it sucks in east coast states? For Utah/Colorado/Idaho/Wyoming/Nevada, I'm pretty confident the JT will take the loads without to much issue as long as you're within the design parameters?

The overheating is well documented and understood at this point.
If it's a hot day and you work it HARD for a long, long time. i.e. sustained mountain pass at 70+mph and just keep your right foot way, way down, the ecodiesel in the wrangler and the gladiator will overheat and de-rate.
You have not experienced it because you watch the temps and take your foot out of it.

-Dan

 

[skrypj]

What's your payload rating om the F150?

Even maxed out, my Ecoboost / 10 spd combo does a great job towing. Much better than my old 5.0L with 6 speed and 3:73's.

View attachment 814346

1540 lbs.

 

[skrypj]

The overheating is well documented and understood at this point.
If it's a hot day and you work it HARD for a long, long time. i.e. sustained mountain pass at 70+mph and just keep your right foot way, way down, the ecodiesel in the wrangler and the gladiator will overheat and de-rate.
You have not experienced it because you watch the temps and take your foot out of it.

-Dan

Which is exactly what my Ecoboost does. The thing is a locomotive and will tow up any hill at 80mph(I dont actually tow at 80mph but it could do it) but then the coolant temp spikes.

The first time I ever towed my TT with mine I was coming back from Idaho in 95+F temps and was climbing a relatively small grade just before getting into UT, and the truck just shut down on me. Like total loss of power and had to pull over into the breakdown lane and stop. That meant my coolant temps hit 250+ degrees. I had no idea at the time, I bought a F150 with the max tow package and an 11,300 lb tow rating, why would my 5500 lb trailer bother it?

I fought the battle for a few years and then bought a Mishimoto radiator and an external Setrab oil cooler and that 90% fixed the problem. Even now I will still back out and drop to 55-60 on climbs if its hot.

 

[skrypj]

Bro, kids in car seats? Towing 5500lbs? Skip the midsize and get the HD. Guaranteed you’ll regret it on your first trip out with the Gladiator.

If anything I will downsize my trailer. I have already been on the lookout for smaller trailers as prices are coming down.

I've also towed this trailer >1000 miles with my GX460 and its been completely fine. And that included some 9-10000' passes and 65-70mph freeway. I seriously doubt the Gladiator will be worse than a glorified 4Runner.

 

[fourfa]

I've derated once on a long hot climb with no trailer at all (Alu-Cab Canopy Camper + tons of gear). Dan's right, this is well documented. There's a long thread on jeepgladiatorforum with lots of experiments. Unfortunately to date, it's not been as simple as just a thicker radiator. Some people have had some luck with external oil coolers (oil temp is what usually triggers the de-rate).

The original sin here is aesthetic - the iconic narrow Jeep front grille just doesn't allow enough airflow. The same 3rd gen Ecodiesel in a Ram (with a much bigger frontal area) is rated for up to 12,560 lbs towing (more than double) and doesn't derate nearly as often or ever. There are interviews with Jeep engineers from the Gladiator launch where they admit as much (citation needed lol, I'd have to dig for it)

If having to slow down once in a while is a deal-breaker for you then yeah, look at full-size. It wasn't a deal breaker for me

EDIT: found one article: https://jalopnik.com/the-engineering-behind-the-jeep-gladiators-tow-rating-1833657453

 

[Dan Grec]

I've derated once on a long hot climb with no trailer at all (Alu-Cab Canopy Camper + tons of gear). Dan's right, this is well documented. There's a long thread on jeepgladiatorforum with lots of experiments. Unfortunately to date, it's not been as simple as just a thicker radiator. Some people have had some luck with external oil coolers (oil temp is what usually triggers the de-rate).

The original sin here is aesthetic - the iconic narrow Jeep front grille just doesn't allow enough airflow. The same 3rd gen Ecodiesel in a Ram (with a much bigger frontal area) is rated for ~11,000 lbs towing (nearly double) and doesn't derate nearly as often or ever. There are interviews with Jeep engineers from the Gladiator launch where they admit as much (citation needed lol, I'd have to dig for it)

If having to slow down once in a while is a deal-breaker for you then yeah, look at full-size. It wasn't a deal breaker for me

Here's a fascinating article from when David helped design the cooling package on the JL.

The Engineering Behind the Jeep Gladiator's Tow Rating, and Why the Diesel Will Tow Less

There’s a great story to be told about how Jeep engineers managed to get the truck to tow a best-in-class (for a gas vehicle) 7,650 pounds.

jalopnik.com

-Dan

 

[Buddha.]

Which is exactly what my Ecoboost does. The thing is a locomotive and will tow up any hill at 80mph(I dont actually tow at 80mph but it could do it) but then the coolant temp spikes.

The first time I ever towed my TT with mine I was coming back from Idaho in 95+F temps and was climbing a relatively small grade just before getting into UT, and the truck just shut down on me. Like total loss of power and had to pull over into the breakdown lane and stop. That meant my coolant temps hit 250+ degrees. I had no idea at the time, I bought a F150 with the max tow package and an 11,300 lb tow rating, why would my 5500 lb trailer bother it?

I fought the battle for a few years and then bought a Mishimoto radiator and an external Setrab oil cooler and that 90% fixed the problem. Even now I will still back out and drop to 55-60 on climbs if its hot.

It's these kinds of stories that kept me in a gasser 3/4ton. A truck that can't relibly tow half its rating is ridiculous. I thought the SAE J2807 tow standards were supposed to fix this.

 

[Sparse Gray Hackle]

Stellantis released the numbers as part of the recall on the High Pressure Fuel Pump on the EcoDiesel.

-Dan

My SIL has been without his truck for going on two months because of the HOFP. Same engine as the diesel Gladiator.

 

[Dan Grec]

My SIL has been without his truck for going on two months because of the HOFP. Same engine as the diesel Gladiator.

Yep, the re-designed fuel pump didn't even exist until a few months ago, and parts have been *very* slow to trickle out since then, maybe partly because of the strike.

People are getting the recall done now, though dealers are only allocated one pump per week.
(That is for the Gladiator and Wrangler (Gen 3 EcoDiesel) - I'm not sure about the situation on the earlier Gen1 and Gen2's in the RAM)

-Dan

 

[DoKarider16]

I have a friend with gen 3 EcoDiesel in his Wrangler. I was asking him about amount of allowances for biodiesel with it and he thought it could run any blend. I gave him a ride to pickup his Jeep after a service and they had replaced the fuel pump and it now said not run more than b5 biodiesel. Our Sprinter can’t take more than b5 and in some areas it can make kind of difficult to find fuel. I kind of get the whole system being to finicky for more than b5 but it seems it wouldn’t be hard to make a fuel pump that could push some b20 through.

Is this the same understanding other Jeep owners have? I’m getting closer to pulling the trigger on a Gladiator and the extra mpg and low end torque is inviting. New modern diesel headaches are kind of concerning, although the Sprinter hasn’t been trouble free it hasn’t been terrible either.

 

[fourfa]

Relevant page in the pre-recall owner’s manual. So basically avoid B5-B20 but adjust service intervals if you have to run it, and no more than B20.

I’m very curious to see the new addendum post-recall. I know they now require a fuel filter change every oil change, instead of recommending it every other oil change.

It’s also complicated by “renewable” diesel, usually seen as R99 around here. Apparently this is more similar to petrodiesel in terms of lubricity, flow, cleanliness etc so requires no adjustment. But the pumps have to have a legal disclaimer saying something like “more than 20% biomass-derived etc” which can confuse matters between Bxx and Rxx fuels

For me, if I couldn’t have gotten the Gladiator with a diesel, I don’t think I would have bought a Jeep at all. People with similar builds to me (ACCC, 37s, armor, lift, etc) get 12-14 mpg real-world on gas and I just couldn’t live with that. I’m getting 23 best-case, and ~19 avg. I did install an aux tank to help buffer supply issues. In practice I use it more to double up when fuel is cheaper (I drive by a lot of Indian land on the way to my destinations)

(the torque is spectacular too! Absolutely no need to regear for 37s, at least when not towing, it’s still very fast when I put my foot down, and still sees 8th gear on the flats)

 

[skrypj]

It's these kinds of stories that kept me in a gasser 3/4ton. A truck that can't relibly tow half its rating is ridiculous. I thought the SAE J2807 tow standards were supposed to fix this.

Ford didnt start using J2807 until 2015 at which time the radiator in the F150 increased in frontal area by 20%. But the GCWR of the 2015 F150 stayed the same as my 2014 at 17100 lbs and stayed there until the 2018 F150 got chassis upgrades and an even bigger radiator. So a 2018+ F150 with Max-tow would be a very capable truck with anything 10k lbs and under I would think.

You gotta understand too, I am towing is some pretty harsh environments(UT/WY/ID/MT at 6500+' in high temperatures) and, even though my trailer is pretty light, it has an incredible amount of aerodynamic drag. So when I'm cutting that thing through the air at 65mph into a 30mph headwind and its 95+ degrees out, my truck is having to run at 200+ hp non-stop just on flat ground. Once I hit a grade I am over 300 hp. And thats while getting 20% less cooling air mass through the radiator because I am at 6500'.

Not for nothing, but your 6.0 wouldnt even be making 300 hp in that environment. It'd be lucky to be making 275 hp and you'd be in the right lane doing 50-55mph with me in my Ecoboost. You because your engine lacks power and me because my engine doesnt have enough cooling.

But also, J2807 only says the truck has to maintain 45mph up the Davis Dam grade without any kinda of issues. 45mph is a pretty low bar. That's why 250hp half ton diesels get rated for 12000 lbs because they can just keep above the minimum speed.

 

[Todd780]

So a 2018+ F150 with Max-tow would be a very capable truck with anything 10k lbs and under I would think.

It is.

This was the day we picked up our new to us Norther Spirit 2758RB.
So hadn't had a chance to play with the WDH settings.
Truck was loaded with firewood and water tank was full. Trailer packed for a week of camping.
Towed better than my '15 F150 w/ 5.0L 3:37's towed our 5,000 lbs wet 22' trailer.
Despite the sag, it was a relaxing uneventful tow.

 

[skrypj]

I've derated once on a long hot climb with no trailer at all (Alu-Cab Canopy Camper + tons of gear). Dan's right, this is well documented. There's a long thread on jeepgladiatorforum with lots of experiments. Unfortunately to date, it's not been as simple as just a thicker radiator. Some people have had some luck with external oil coolers (oil temp is what usually triggers the de-rate).

The original sin here is aesthetic - the iconic narrow Jeep front grille just doesn't allow enough airflow. The same 3rd gen Ecodiesel in a Ram (with a much bigger frontal area) is rated for up to 12,560 lbs towing (more than double) and doesn't derate nearly as often or ever. There are interviews with Jeep engineers from the Gladiator launch where they admit as much (citation needed lol, I'd have to dig for it)

If having to slow down once in a while is a deal-breaker for you then yeah, look at full-size. It wasn't a deal breaker for me

EDIT: found one article: https://jalopnik.com/the-engineering-behind-the-jeep-gladiators-tow-rating-1833657453

Yeah the key really is radiator frontal area from my experience. Any trucks that are built for high load towing have really large radiators in height and width, but are not necessarily thick. Like the Godzilla 7.3L Radiator is thinner than my stock F150 radiator but dwarfs it in the height and width directions.

Problem with going thicker is it adds more resistance to flow, and the air that is passing through the deeper part of the core is hotter and absorbs less heat. So if you double the core thickness you dont get 2x the cooling capacity. You might get a 40% more cooling or something.

 

[smbisig]

The overheating is well documented and understood at this point.
If it's a hot day and you work it HARD for a long, long time. i.e. sustained mountain pass at 70+mph and just keep your right foot way, way down, the ecodiesel in the wrangler and the gladiator will overheat and de-rate.
You have not experienced it because you watch the temps and take your foot out of it.

-Dan

It's amazing how many posts from people complaining about the power derating share a photo of their gauge cluster and they are running super high RPMs.