Going domestic, project vanilla aka the family tankster, 2004 Suburban 2500

[snowblind]

Hey UP.

I figured you might want my take on this. PM me if you want to talk on the phone one day. Might be easier.

Over the next couple of years I am looking to do the following

Summer 2017
Rear bumper with tire swingout, integrated receiver, recovery points, and trailer hookups.

I've been disappointed by the bumpers for these trucks. If I had the disposable $$ I would probably look to Ruenel and expect to do a little custom work. http://reunel.com/rear-bumpers/

Front end refresh (idler arms, tie rods, bushings as needed) The front end is all still original and at 150,000 miles now starting to feel a little loose and vague.

My advice is to just bite the bullet and replace everything that hasn't already been replaced. Upper/Lower ball joints, tierod ends, idler arm, pitman arm, bump stops, bushings, hubs/wheel bearings brake calipers and brake lines.

Of course you can skip/wait on replacing any of these things but if you're adding bigger tires all that stuff will see increased wear/stress and will fail quickly. I would rather do proactive work than repair work.

Bull bar, ARB, still not sure if this will be this summer or next. Winch for said bull bar

The ONLY bumper I've seen for these trucks that I like is this one. Availability and pricing looks like it is TBA http://forum.expeditionportal.com/t...2002-Chevy-Tahoe-Build?highlight=tahoe+bumper



Winch is expensive if you don't use it. Just saying.

Snorkel/raised intake

Looks cool. Do you drive a lot of dusty roads?

Roof basket, preferably flat style to allow gear hauling or canoe/kayak hauling and still allow a RTT when needed.

I think you need to move away from the factory racks to gain the strength needed for a real platform rack.

Personally I would not go this route due to the resulting "Top-Heaviness" - I used two Yakima cargo boxes to haul tents, clothes, sleeping bags, etc, a few years back and adding just that small amount of weight up high made the sub handle very poorly in turns and especially off road. On tight, rocky trails the truck HEAVED from side to side. I try to keep the roof free from weight now.

Next year
Suspension upgrade: more clearance, not sure if I want to stick with 33's or bump up to 35's. So somewhere between 4-6" of lift.

Big things to consider in a lift:
How much does it drop the front diff?
Does it include knuckles to raise the tierods?
How much does it increase front width/track?

Everything on a lift kit is a compromise/workaround to factory design. Torsion Bar crank increases CV angles so you get a Diff Drop lift but that increases the front driveline angle coming from the transfer case. I think it is super important to have accurate info on how/where you want to drive realistic goals as to what can be accomplished.

One thing about most GMT800 lift kits - They don't give any more travel! If it were me I would be looking to a custom front coil-over setup that ADDS suspension travel.

35" tire puts a big limit on available tire choice. Check that the tire you want to run is available in the size you want. I stick with 285/70/17s for this reason.

Wheel offset matters and you can modify the front fenders for some better clearance without lifting too high. With my mild lift, no front spacers and 285/70/17s on Hummer wheels the truck gets sprayed by the front tires. Wider tires / wide lift will make this worse. Found any fender flares you like?

RTT: family sized to make for easy traveling and setup with kiddos on long trips.

I would look at a trailer. Yes they can be expensive but they offer SO much flexibility over a roof top tent. All your gear is there ready for family trips and you leave it at home if you go without family.

Modular storage system that can be removed easily for hauling mountain bikes inside or installed for trips with no bikes. Probably make a sleeping platform on top to allow quick and dirty sleeping inside truck using the space behind the second row.

Sleeping in the back just makes sense some times. Just make sure that "removed easily" doesn't mean poorly mounted. It would suck to have storage boxes flying around inside the truck during a roll over.

I know there is a ton of feedback on lifts on here and online but anyone have any specific, condensed feedback you want to offer here? Specifically with trailability of 33's vs 35's with the various lifts and their effects on onroad driving.

What type of trails? Mud or rock/desert? What is your gearing? I have 3.73s (or whatever is the tall stock) and that is too tall for the 285/70/17s.




Matt

 

[upcruiser]

Looks like a plan!

For idler and pitman arms:
IMO ONLY buy AC Delco originals, or go with something like the Kryptonite as a higher $ option. I did not like the Moog's HD line fitment (And I am a fan/ usually default to moog's Problem solver HD parts) However, I could not i get the arms to fully seat on the steering box.) I l am currently testing the Cognito idler/ pitman braces and I must say they helped the steering feel a ton (not as vauge) and should add a ton of strength. They add money though$ but IMO I wouldn't feel comfortable pushing anything on stock size idler/ pitman on 35's, which I am heading towards

Tie-rods:
I like the sleeves on my tie-rods, as I feel the total strength is higher than the "slightly upgraded" HD Moog's I had before. The sleeves are only $30-40 so just do them along with AC Delco replacements at once. I was going to stick with the Moog's but my lift kit was packaged with the Sleeves, so i figured I'd try them. It's plus minus on whether sleeves are better or the Moog's being thicker. IMO It would be Stock size< MOOG HD< Stock size with sleeves< Cognito or other brand super ultra thick tie rods. For the ultra thick ones, I think Bolrig or someone just installed them on their truck and posted a picture a few weeks ago. They look like serious hardware. They are $ though.

Ball Joints:
Lower and upper ball joints are a PITA. Seriously. I broke two tools on the lower getting them out. Worth it to just pay a shop 40-50 to press them out and in with a hydraulic press when you do the lift kit because the LCA have to come off anyway. I like the new Moog's ball joints with the better designed grease boot for the lowers. If spending $, I went to the Cognito UCA and really, really like them however they seemed to raised the price recently so they are also $. They will work with any lift kit that doesn't touch the UCA's (so 99% of the kits).

Overview:
Mostly everything is plug and play with most lift kits. Only thing I have found not to be, as mentioned is the thicker Moog tierods won't fit with sleeves, but that's not a big deal.

For the 33's vs 35's I am on 33's now, with a 6 inch lift. I am going to go to 35's when they wear out. IMO you need a full 5-6 inch lift, and not the 4" to fit the 35's without seriously trimming, if you have a real suspension that articulates. As can be seen in my pictures, my setup buries the tires, and even with the 6 inch, my 33's do touch. With 35's instead of touching, they will slightly rub most likely. With less lift, it would become problematic. If you aren't maxing the suspension, than that may be a different story and would be fine. For trail ability, again like the 6 inch lift made a huge difference in my mannerism on trails. Before, any rock bigger than a certain size I would have to creep over. Now, it's not on my radar. With 35's this ability will again be there to not have to worry about dragging my diff on as much stuff being an inch higher again.

On bull bars My advice would to either have it stay down low, and just be the bull bar/ mount for the winch. The brush guards usually just turn into mangled thin wall steel bending into your headlights with any impact with a tree/ etc. If you really want a brush guard bull bar, make sure it's a real deal thick wall. I think money would be better spent saving for a real custom bumper you could have made locally a little above the price of a true brush gaurd bull bar.

I've been doing research on snorkels (going to do it this summer) and found this whcih seems to be a quality piece, and much cheaper than the other options. Also, Jelorian installed it on his truck to success and he seems to like it? The pictures look great.
https://www.amazon.com/TMS-Snorkel-...rd_wg=LgsBM&psc=1&refRID=G07EHJEMENZSRJ5ZTN40

Wow, so much good advice here. Thanks for taking the time to put that all in one post as it is super helpful. The idea of using stock tie rods with the sleeves is appealing and am going to look into the cognito braces as I would love a bit more steering precision too.

I keep going back and forth with wanting to retain 33's because I like the combo of 4.10's with that tire size and the highway manners. I can eek out 15mpg on the highway and I know 6" of lift and 35's will murder that. After all we are planning some long trips with this truck. I do have some rub at full stuff with the wheel cranked as is but it's not too bad. I don't have much droop or flex at all really in the front end. Getting some more compliance in the front would definitely give a better ride in the rough stuff and like you mentioned, let's you go at a better clip with no worries. My biggest issue with the current stance is how low the belly is, especially with the cross brace that hangs down.

 

[upcruiser]

For the Bull Bars, I believe he was talking about the ARB version and the fact that there are several guys with GMT800's that have the 100 Series Land Cruiser version installed on their rigs. I wonder if the 200 series would be a better fit. I need to take a look and compare both. In either case, I believe there is some cutting and welding to get it to fit...along with purchasing the Chevy fitment kit.

Snorkel has been holding up fine. I haven't been through any deep water yet, but my airbox is water tight and I'm ALMOST positive there are no leaks with the connections from the snorkel to the air box. Even if there were, it would have to be a pretty big leak to even get through the filter. The kit you linked is the same one that I have. Just gotta take care when heating up the elbow so it better contours the A pillar.

Yep, was referring to the hundy ARB, looks really sharp on the GMT800's just haven't seen one on a 2500 and was curious if it presented some extra challenge something.

 

[upcruiser]

Here are his photo's https://vericom.smugmug.com/ARB-Bumper/

Looks sharp but the main reason I want the bull bar is for animal strikes. I have hit deer with a couple of mine over the years and it's saved me body and radiator damage for sure. We were talking about an Alaska trip next summer and some insurance against getting stranded from a busted radiator in the middle of nowhere with some young kids to contend with is more along the lines of what I am thinking. The current grill guard is tetty stout but it's mounted to a comparatively flimsy bumper so not confident in how much protection it would really offer.

 

[upcruiser]

Hey UP.

I figured you might want my take on this. PM me if you want to talk on the phone one day. Might be easier.



I've been disappointed by the bumpers for these trucks. If I had the disposable $$ I would probably look to Ruenel and expect to do a little custom work. http://reunel.com/rear-bumpers/



My advice is to just bite the bullet and replace everything that hasn't already been replaced. Upper/Lower ball joints, tierod ends, idler arm, pitman arm, bump stops, bushings, hubs/wheel bearings brake calipers and brake lines.

Of course you can skip/wait on replacing any of these things but if you're adding bigger tires all that stuff will see increased wear/stress and will fail quickly. I would rather do proactive work than repair work.



The ONLY bumper I've seen for these trucks that I like is this one. Availability and pricing looks like it is TBA http://forum.expeditionportal.com/t...2002-Chevy-Tahoe-Build?highlight=tahoe+bumper

View attachment 402751

Winch is expensive if you don't use it. Just saying.



Looks cool. Do you drive a lot of dusty roads?



I think you need to move away from the factory racks to gain the strength needed for a real platform rack.

Personally I would not go this route due to the resulting "Top-Heaviness" - I used two Yakima cargo boxes to haul tents, clothes, sleeping bags, etc, a few years back and adding just that small amount of weight up high made the sub handle very poorly in turns and especially off road. On tight, rocky trails the truck HEAVED from side to side. I try to keep the roof free from weight now.



Big things to consider in a lift:
How much does it drop the front diff?
Does it include knuckles to raise the tierods?
How much does it increase front width/track?

Everything on a lift kit is a compromise/workaround to factory design. Torsion Bar crank increases CV angles so you get a Diff Drop lift but that increases the front driveline angle coming from the transfer case. I think it is super important to have accurate info on how/where you want to drive realistic goals as to what can be accomplished.

One thing about most GMT800 lift kits - They don't give any more travel! If it were me I would be looking to a custom front coil-over setup that ADDS suspension travel.

35" tire puts a big limit on available tire choice. Check that the tire you want to run is available in the size you want. I stick with 285/70/17s for this reason.

Wheel offset matters and you can modify the front fenders for some better clearance without lifting too high. With my mild lift, no front spacers and 285/70/17s on Hummer wheels the truck gets sprayed by the front tires. Wider tires / wide lift will make this worse. Found any fender flares you like?



I would look at a trailer. Yes they can be expensive but they offer SO much flexibility over a roof top tent. All your gear is there ready for family trips and you leave it at home if you go without family.



Sleeping in the back just makes sense some times. Just make sure that "removed easily" doesn't mean poorly mounted. It would suck to have storage boxes flying around inside the truck during a roll over.



What type of trails? Mud or rock/desert? What is your gearing? I have 3.73s (or whatever is the tall stock) and that is too tall for the 285/70/17s.




Matt

Matt,

Good points and I guess I should clarify intentions a bit. First off this is my daily driver but I don't have a work commute, I am a ski coach and I travel for work. When I am home the Burb is for hauling the boys around, running errands, and hauling gear to support our outdoor pursuits. So on one hand building it up won't really hurt it much in for those things since the majority of its use right now is adventures. Till now we haven't done anything too crazy with it just dirt roads, unimproved roads, etc mostly because we have our Land Cruiser we have used for the gnarlier adventures.






I have had this 80 for 16 years now and while I love it, it has some stuff I need to address at the moment, one of which is the smog system and a bad vacuum leak. I basically need to desmog it since the EGR's aren't even available for it anymore. But having two little ones, a job that requires a ton of travel and 3 other project cars trying to steal my attention, I just don't see me dealing with the Cruiser stuff this year. Plus the Suburban does such a better job of covering ground and hauling more gear that I want to use it for everything right now. So a bit more capability would be helpful. Basically the ability to run something like Lockhart Basin would be plenty for me but retaining the ability to do some long miles, Alaska, Labrador, etc. For those types of trips we prefer a RTT to be off the ground, have a quick setup,be off the ground in bear country, and allow us a place to cook, eat and be out of rain and bugs with a lower tent when needed. Other times a ground tent is fine then we can haul SUPs, kayaks, canoes. With the width of this truck I feel pretty comfortable with the stability of even a family size RTT up top. I have done a ton of technical trails over the years with RTT's and recognize the compromises but am comfortable with managing them.

This was our FJ that we used till we had a second kiddo, and good lord it required some efficient packing.








That was a great rig but compromised by space for sure.

Our FJ60 was our purity rig, kept it simple and miss it most







Did a Rover foray too for awhile and if you can be comfortable in a lifted D1 with an RTT then a Burb is pretty stress free, ha!

Not condoning large roof loads but for the times when I was living and traveling out of my trucks for a couple of months at a time, it made life a lot easier, especially in inclement weather.

So I don't want to do any rockcrawlimg or anything, getting into the backcountry on some technical routes would be what we are looking for. Similar to what we did in those rigs.

Regarding bumpers, the plan is to have Roam Auto locally fab up a rear bumper with towing hookups and a tire swing out, probably in August as I am in New Zealand for 3 weeks. Perfect time to drop it off and let them do their fab magic. Front bumper is a lower priority, so is a winch. I only ever really need a winch locally in the UP where the combo of mud and tight spots sometime kill momentum and winching is easy due to having trees to hook to everywhere. Some maxtracks are likely a more useable solution for the majority of stuff we would do. Plus then I don't have to drive around with a winch on the truck year round. Jury is out on the snorkel, it seems though that the engine compartment gets super dusty on these trucks and because we do a lot on dirt roads I think it would prolong airfilter life on long trips more. Also not super confident on water ingress on the trucks but have no practical good or bad experience. We do have water crossings in the Yoop which can be high in the spring but generally we try to avoid that stuff.

I don't know that I trust the electronics on this truck enough to submerge it more than I have to, nor do I like doing that anyway.

I just greased up the front end and did an oil change the other day, no unusual tire wear in the front and the greasing smoothed out a bit of coarseness I was feeling in the front end. Still a bit vague as always but nothing terrible. Might have to give you a call to rap about stuff though as I get ready to pull the trigger. I appreciate the offer! I am still a total newb on the GM stuff.

 

[Tiki]

Ski coach? I have a friend that runs a yearly camp out of Austria. I'm even more jealous of your lifestyle lol.

 

[upcruiser]

Ski coach? I have a friend that runs a yearly camp out of Austria. I'm even more jealous of your lifestyle lol.

Yeah, what's his name? It's a small world in that sport, I probably know them. I cut back after we had kids but am back involved again in the sport. I worked for the US Team for 10 years but didn't want to have that much travel and try to balance a family, been freelancing lately and working a couple of weeks a month for an academy out of New Hampshire this past season. It's a fun job, but was more fun when I was a single guy in my twenties for sure, haha.

 

[Tiki]

Bump, the snow starting to fly yet? Need to send your photos over to Flickr so I can continue to lust and drool over them!

 

[upcruiser]

Bump, the snow starting to fly yet? Need to send your photos over to Flickr so I can continue to lust and drool over them!

Yeah it has, have had snow in the ground for close to a week following what was essentially a Cat 1 hurricane last week. Record waves on Lake Superior, a couple of buoys measured waves over 29'.

Got a bit disillusioned by the Photobucket thing and haven't updated this since. I see the images but I am assuming they are just showing up for me since it's my photobucket account. Ugh

I really don't have much new to report. I didn't do the bumper build I had mentioned or actually do anything to the truck this summer. I spent July buried in new skis I was prepping then pretty much all of August in New Zealand. When I got back we bought a sailboat and pretty much spent every moment of Sept working on the boat and sailing it. Even did some camping on it, it's been unbelievabley fun for the family and at least for where I live, a great way to get to some cool stuff only accessed via water. I did manage to deal with a no start issue I was having with the Land Cruiser and we took that out a bunch for some adventures too. That said I have come to see the Burb as this kind of perfect vehicle for what it is. I don't really want to spend the time or money to try and optimize the suspension to give me some incremental increase in ride and performance in the dirt, when it's such an honest, comfortable, perfectly utilitarian rig as it is. Not sure that trying to add to one area of performance on the thing won't handicap it in another way. As is we can throw our camping gear and bikes in the back and go big out tomorrow with the thing across the country without an issue. Maybe it's just a phase of life I am in but I'd rather spend the energy on the experiences right now than monkeying around with the thing too much. Same with the Cruiser and some of the other project cars I have. I always think I am going to have time in the winter to tackle bigger car projects but just end up too busy. Maybe this winter will be a bit different.

I did just change the oil though and am driving to Colorado with the Burb Tuesday for the rest of the month. If I have a few free days I might try to run over to Moab or at least Fruita to ride and get a little red rock fix. At some point I will try to migrate some images to a new hosting service. That Photobucket thing really rubbed me the wrong way though. Especially as a person who uses forums a ton for looking up procedures a lot and how a good number of those resources were affected. In the meantime here are some images from the summer/fall adventures via attachment.

 

[upcruiser]

A few from Sept

 

[chilliwak]

Nice looking pics there Upcruiser. Look like you had fun. Cheers, Chilli...

 

[Tiki]

I know the feeling. I'm a big forum guy and love looking through build threads and keeping a timeline for my projects, photobucket is the devil.

That being said we are planning on buying a vacation mobile (2500 SUB) to store in MI/SD; post a few pictures up so I can lust :drool: we're excited to get up to the UP in the coming years.

 

[Tiki]

Update!

 

[upcruiser]

Update!

Ah man, not too much to report. The burb has been a bit neglected this year. We jumped into sailing pretty hard and bought a bigger boat this spring that I spent every available moment working on and once in the water, sailing. I hauled it up from southern MI to the UP with the Suburban and it did a great job. These things are such great beasts of burden. So yeah we put all of our time into really learning to sail this year and it was wonderful. We are expecting our 3rd child in a couple of weeks though so we have been laying low lately. Just sold it though, along with the smaller boat earlier this summer as I don’t see us sailing next season with a baby and the two boys. Planning to take a year or two off then getting back into it and doing some cruising. It’s like overlanding, but on the water and in this region there are some amazing remote areas you can see.

But back to the truck. We have just been using to for family activities. Went on a mini safari a couple of weeks ago to look for wildlife and got to see some moose. I put new brake rotors on the front this summer, put a new AFM on it last fall before a trip to CO. I don’t think I drive it enough honestly. I keep getting thrown codes for sensors, it’s a little annoying but they never seem to affect performance and I just delete them. Stuff like knock sensor (which I replaced recently), AFM (which I replaced last fall but still get a code occasionally), cylinder bank running rich, etc... my underhood air compressor stopped working and I haven’t gotten around to troubleshooting it, the chuck got rusty from its location and water dripping on it. That’s annoying, think I am going to pull it out and mount it in a portable box so I can use it with other vehicles.

I do proclaim how much I love the burb though pretty much every time I drive it. I think we are going to look back on this era of vehicles as the golden age. Especially when it comes to the current vehicles getting on in years and all the issues they will have due to their complex technologies crammed in there.

With sailing out of the picture now for a bit we are talking again of doing some vehicle travel and I am considering putting some funds towards upgrades again to accommodate us as a soon to be family of 5. Will post some updates once we start down that path. Here are some pics from this summer though

 

[upcruiser]

Hey quick question, are people seeing my photobucket linked images in this thread? When PB changed their share policies they all disappeared but now they seem to be showing up. Is it just me or do you guys see the images again? I was feeling a bit put out having posted so many pictures a written accounts on this thread just to have all the images disappear. Stoked if they are back.