GVWR vs. Payload and possible issues with excess weight
- Thread starter Stereo
- Start date
Nicaragüense
Observer
Just make sure you have properly rated and maintained tires so that you do not risk the safety. Axle weights and overall gross weight is important. Distribute things well and you will have a good riding safe vehicle.
Good points on the overall everything is illegal. I think this is good discussion; I am still not sure where I come down on the issue... buy more truck or just go with the size you want (e.g. a Taco instead of a RAM). I know the FWC dealers that drive Tacos with FWC campers on them... as well as Jonathan Hansen at Overland Tech has a nicely tricked out FwC complete with indoor shower on a Taco. Both have more experience with trucks, overlanding, and offroading than I will most likely have in my lifetime so I guess if the approach is good enough/safe enough for them than not sure why I have a problem with it... maybe its the risk averse finance/accountant in me struggling with my adventurous spirit. Either way, good discussion to help people decide what level of risk they are willing to accept.
Hi RoyJ,
Thanks for all this insight. I'm wondering if I understand correctly. I have a '16 tacoma. GVWR = 5600 Ibs. GAWR fr=3040Ibs, GAWR rr=3285Ibs, so total GAWR = 6325Ibs. When loading my tacoma, with rear airbags to properly distribute the weight, as long as I'm under this total GAWR things should be generally okay for driving? (of course, driving style changes in consideration of all this weight... longer break distance, slower on turns etc...).
What are the risks of going ~200 Ibs above GAWR?
Herbie
Rendezvous Conspirator
Nooooo. The GAWR front and rear are the maximums for each axle, but they do not add to find a "total GAWR". The GVWR is still the upper limit for combined weight of the vehicle.
With a GVWR of 5600lbs, if you load the rear axle to the maximum GAWR of 3285lbs, then you can safely put a maximum of 2315lbs on the front axle (5600-3285).
The same is true for the GCWR (Gross Combined weight, which includes a trailer if present). The 2016 Tacoma has a GCWR of 11360 lbs, but advertises a towing capacity of up to 6700lbs, depending on configuration (and as low as 3500lbs). If your loaded truck comes in at exactly 5600lbs, then your real towing capacity is (11360 - 5600) = 5760lbs. If you need to tow a 6700lb trailer, then you need to reduce the truck's real curb weight, or vice versa.
billiebob
Well-known member
GAWRs only tell you the maximum for each axle to give some flexibility in how you load yer truck.
But you cannot legally exceed the GVWR nor can you exceed the GCWR.
On most vehicles there is also a maximum frontal area allowed.
With my TJ I cannot exceed a trailer frontal area of 25 square feet which pretty much restricts Wranglers to TearDrop trailers.
From the2015 Tacoma Owners Manual....
Installing accessories in addition to those installed at the factory increases vehicle weight, thereby reducing vehicle capacity weight. Contact your Toyota dealer about the weight of accessory parts.
But you cannot legally exceed the GVWR nor can you exceed the GCWR.
On most vehicles there is also a maximum frontal area allowed.
With my TJ I cannot exceed a trailer frontal area of 25 square feet which pretty much restricts Wranglers to TearDrop trailers.
From the2015 Tacoma Owners Manual....
Installing accessories in addition to those installed at the factory increases vehicle weight, thereby reducing vehicle capacity weight. Contact your Toyota dealer about the weight of accessory parts.
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Hello everyone,
Been lurking for a while mostly learning. I saw this post and was compelled to weigh in. I have a SRA 2003 Chevy 2500HD w/Duramax and Allison trans with 4WD and an 8" bed. I also have a 1995 Weekender by Skyline truck camper. I purchased this complete setup from a cousin. The only difference between my truck and a 3500HD is the springs and torsion bars. I have weighed my truck front axle, rear axle and combined. According to the sticker in my drivers door 10,000lbs is max combined weight. According to the owners manual I should not install a truck camper that weighs more than 1700lbs! 1700lbs, really? I don not even hit the overload springs with this camper on it sitting still. What in the wide world of flying monkey butts are they talking about? Anyway, my camper weighs 2900 + pounds with 33 gallons of water, 2 full 20lb propane tanks and 2lbs of ice. This puts my truck combined total weight just over 11,000lbs. I run only load range E tires of no less than 3195lbs per tire pumped up to the max of 80psi. I also have Firestone airbags, new brake lines (thank you GM) Torklift load stabilizers, Bilstien shocks, and upgraded brakes. I have driven this truck back to VA. from Salt Lake City. To Jekyll Island, GA. (whole different story about weight when the wife comes along), and numerous hunting trips up and down I81 in VA.
I know my truck is technically over weight according to GM and the government. My truck sits level, I drive it like I used to drive 24' box trucks. Plan ahead for turns and traffic conditions etc. Ultimately it is our responsibility to make sure our vehicles are over maintained and set up properly if we are knowingly going to overload them. This is not just for the well being of our beloved vehicles, but for those idiot drivers around you. Below is a link to Truck Camper Magazines "How To Match truck to truck camper". FYI They are sticklers to truck matching, but there is some very useful information.
www.truckcampermagazine.com
I hope this helps.
When I retire in 4-5 years, a pop up camper is definitely in the plans along with no house. I don't want to be stuck to a lawn mower for the rest of my life and I want to see in person some of the places y'all graciously share via pictures and YouTube. For that I thank each of you!!!
Been lurking for a while mostly learning. I saw this post and was compelled to weigh in. I have a SRA 2003 Chevy 2500HD w/Duramax and Allison trans with 4WD and an 8" bed. I also have a 1995 Weekender by Skyline truck camper. I purchased this complete setup from a cousin. The only difference between my truck and a 3500HD is the springs and torsion bars. I have weighed my truck front axle, rear axle and combined. According to the sticker in my drivers door 10,000lbs is max combined weight. According to the owners manual I should not install a truck camper that weighs more than 1700lbs! 1700lbs, really? I don not even hit the overload springs with this camper on it sitting still. What in the wide world of flying monkey butts are they talking about? Anyway, my camper weighs 2900 + pounds with 33 gallons of water, 2 full 20lb propane tanks and 2lbs of ice. This puts my truck combined total weight just over 11,000lbs. I run only load range E tires of no less than 3195lbs per tire pumped up to the max of 80psi. I also have Firestone airbags, new brake lines (thank you GM) Torklift load stabilizers, Bilstien shocks, and upgraded brakes. I have driven this truck back to VA. from Salt Lake City. To Jekyll Island, GA. (whole different story about weight when the wife comes along), and numerous hunting trips up and down I81 in VA.
I know my truck is technically over weight according to GM and the government. My truck sits level, I drive it like I used to drive 24' box trucks. Plan ahead for turns and traffic conditions etc. Ultimately it is our responsibility to make sure our vehicles are over maintained and set up properly if we are knowingly going to overload them. This is not just for the well being of our beloved vehicles, but for those idiot drivers around you. Below is a link to Truck Camper Magazines "How To Match truck to truck camper". FYI They are sticklers to truck matching, but there is some very useful information.
How To Match and Truck and Camper - Payload, Weight, and More
Step-by-step instructions to properly match a truck and camper including calculations for camper weight, payload, center of gravity, and overall fit compatibility.
www.truckcampermagazine.com
When I retire in 4-5 years, a pop up camper is definitely in the plans along with no house. I don't want to be stuck to a lawn mower for the rest of my life and I want to see in person some of the places y'all graciously share via pictures and YouTube. For that I thank each of you!!!
calicamper
Expedition Leader
Many Taco owners seem to move up or go back to basics after having experience / s that get them thinking its not a great idea. Usually most that move up all seem to mention braking as something they really couldn’t address after nearly building a whole new truck.
Adding weight to the front nose is just adding weight it doesn’t lift weight off the rear.
I live in the Bay Area and constantly find my self parking in tight areas in San Francisco, Oakland etc. I bought a 1993 J80 because it was the largest 3 row SUV that fit in a 190inch curb spot infront of my house. I sold that for a couple of reasons after 7 yrs and bought a 2006 Sequoia for sure more complicated to park but not a no go. I also drove a Subaru OB. I sold the Sequoia and my Subaru bought a 2019 Expedition yeah it big. Wide and same height as the Sequoia. So far even in San Francisco the Expedition has been OK.
If your over weight in the Taco with one small kid and camping stuff it only gets worse. Tomorrow I load up 4 full sized bicycles, snow gear in the roof box. Plus the dog, we are bringing food for 8 for one day another family is bringing food for another day. And thats for a 4 day weekend in a Airbnb rental. If I had a Taco we would be well over load limits. Not including our camping gear.
If you camp once a yr and aren’t going far yeah the Taco is probably fine. When I had that camp schedule our Subaru was fine. When we started doing bigger trips the Subaru was far from ok. The Sequoia was the obvious choice. Our 12 day 2700mile trip NV,AZ, UT last yr the Sequoia was great but we were wanting more modern comforts. So today the 2019 Expedition is the go to rig. I have done many back country trips as a kid that’s actually all we did. I have only 4x4 trail run one trail on purpose with a Gwagen club along the fringes of the Rubicon with the Sequoia.
Most graded dirt back country roads are passable by a 2wd full sized truck except were weather conditions complicate the road surface. Which case a heavily loaded Taco isn’t going to be happy in those compromised road surfaces anyway.
Take a realistic look at your use if its 97+% pavement and the rest dirt roads seriously just go look at the F150-Dodge 1500 Chevy/GM twins and you’ll find they are great vehicles get better mileage, more comfortable etc. Or look at the Tundra if your super brand centric. I’ve had 3 Toyota trucks over 30yrs now on my 2nd Ford and I was check in hand a few months back for a 2019 Yukon but walked away from a dealer that refused to deal. So I brought home a more modern and better equipped Platinum Expedition for less $ than the Dated 2019 Yukon I almost bought. LOL
All of these vehicles are quite impressive and equally reliable. My Toyotas all had issues at some point they weren’t cheaper than my dads and brothers domestics and my Toyotas funny enough were the ones that suffered failures that could have been trip ending not the domestics in the family. My dad just sold his 99 Ford Explorer for $1200 it had 260,000 miles on it all he ever did was fluids and plugs. He bought my Sequoia because I gave him the family discount and it just had tires, brakes, battery and Timing belt done.
Go at least look at all the Full sized rigs. Their are soooo many used full sized pickups on the market because their a million a yr built. Its worth looking.
Adding weight to the front nose is just adding weight it doesn’t lift weight off the rear.
I live in the Bay Area and constantly find my self parking in tight areas in San Francisco, Oakland etc. I bought a 1993 J80 because it was the largest 3 row SUV that fit in a 190inch curb spot infront of my house. I sold that for a couple of reasons after 7 yrs and bought a 2006 Sequoia for sure more complicated to park but not a no go. I also drove a Subaru OB. I sold the Sequoia and my Subaru bought a 2019 Expedition yeah it big. Wide and same height as the Sequoia. So far even in San Francisco the Expedition has been OK.
If your over weight in the Taco with one small kid and camping stuff it only gets worse. Tomorrow I load up 4 full sized bicycles, snow gear in the roof box. Plus the dog, we are bringing food for 8 for one day another family is bringing food for another day. And thats for a 4 day weekend in a Airbnb rental. If I had a Taco we would be well over load limits. Not including our camping gear.
If you camp once a yr and aren’t going far yeah the Taco is probably fine. When I had that camp schedule our Subaru was fine. When we started doing bigger trips the Subaru was far from ok. The Sequoia was the obvious choice. Our 12 day 2700mile trip NV,AZ, UT last yr the Sequoia was great but we were wanting more modern comforts. So today the 2019 Expedition is the go to rig. I have done many back country trips as a kid that’s actually all we did. I have only 4x4 trail run one trail on purpose with a Gwagen club along the fringes of the Rubicon with the Sequoia.
Most graded dirt back country roads are passable by a 2wd full sized truck except were weather conditions complicate the road surface. Which case a heavily loaded Taco isn’t going to be happy in those compromised road surfaces anyway.
Take a realistic look at your use if its 97+% pavement and the rest dirt roads seriously just go look at the F150-Dodge 1500 Chevy/GM twins and you’ll find they are great vehicles get better mileage, more comfortable etc. Or look at the Tundra if your super brand centric. I’ve had 3 Toyota trucks over 30yrs now on my 2nd Ford and I was check in hand a few months back for a 2019 Yukon but walked away from a dealer that refused to deal. So I brought home a more modern and better equipped Platinum Expedition for less $ than the Dated 2019 Yukon I almost bought. LOL
All of these vehicles are quite impressive and equally reliable. My Toyotas all had issues at some point they weren’t cheaper than my dads and brothers domestics and my Toyotas funny enough were the ones that suffered failures that could have been trip ending not the domestics in the family. My dad just sold his 99 Ford Explorer for $1200 it had 260,000 miles on it all he ever did was fluids and plugs. He bought my Sequoia because I gave him the family discount and it just had tires, brakes, battery and Timing belt done.
Go at least look at all the Full sized rigs. Their are soooo many used full sized pickups on the market because their a million a yr built. Its worth looking.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
Keep in mind the FWC Taco guys travel solo most of the time and travel light. The Wander the west peeps typically couples Toyotas are actually the exception not the norm due to load limits issue.
With a young family I highly recommend looking forward. It seems like just yesterday I was packing kids folding scooters and plastic sand toys for my little kids. Tomorrow I set up our 75lb bike rack and load 4 full sized mountain bikes on the hitch, and our roof box with ski gear another 80lbs. Then we have the 75lb dog, 4 25-30lb duffle bags and a Ice chest of food for 8. And we aren’t even camping! My camping rig is a 4x6 trailer
If your heavy now. Tomorrow you’ll be way heavy. Lol
Legality wise, sure.
But then again, your modified van would be just as "illegal". To quote my own thread from 4 years ago:
I'll say this - the risk is probably the same as running 33" - 35" tires, with a 3" lift, on a Tacoma axle, which we frequently do.
In both cases we put slightly higher stress on the wheel bearings, axle housing, brakes, control arms, wheel/tires, etc. For some reason may people are okay with the former (larger tires / lift), but not okay with the latter (200 lbs over weight).
On nearly EVERY DOT-enforced commercial truck, GVW = sum of GAWRs. I challenge anyone to prove how Ram can raise the GVW by only changing the engine from 5.7 to 6.4L displacement. Tell me that's not a marketing driven spec.
Corvusvelo
New member
Timely and extremely helpful. We're planning to build our camper vehicle in the next year and have been researching. We'll be spending about 60 nights a year. The flatbed Hawk meets our needs for space to work and live. I did a rough high estimate of our yearly trips and we're looking at around 20k miles/year. Since we are looking to keep this for at least 20 years reliability is critical. I understand all vehicles can have issues but the data on reliability for the Tundra is hard to deny and one reason we have been set on purchasing one. Enter the GVWR boogyman and "you're gonna get sued and insurance will hang you!!!!" type statements scared us into briefly looking at 3/4 and 1 tons. It's really not the route we want to go (more expensive up front, maintenance costs more, reliability data is lower). From a purely logical standpoint EVERY mid-size and 1/2 ton with a pop-up must be at or over GVWR, and apparently even some 3/4 and 1 ton vehicles are. Many thanks for the reasonable and rational points presented by RoyJ and others. It's helped us feel a bit safer about our original decision.
dstefan
Well-known member
FWIW — here’s a thread I started on the same question. https://www.expeditionportal.com/fo...en-replaced-on-your-overweight-tacoma.208233/
It had some good info for me, I thought. Still struggling with what to do though.
There’s another thread on Expo somewhere where a guy bought a 2006 Tacoma with a very heavily built out Ovrlnd popup and broke down with rear axle or diff problems. I’ll link it if I can find it again.
It had some good info for me, I thought. Still struggling with what to do though.
There’s another thread on Expo somewhere where a guy bought a 2006 Tacoma with a very heavily built out Ovrlnd popup and broke down with rear axle or diff problems. I’ll link it if I can find it again.
dstefan
Well-known member
With some Expo-**** I found it:
www.expeditionportal.com
Pretty sure (have a mutual acquaintance who knew the trucks condition well) the original owner/builder was maintaining it well and honest about its condition on sale. More of tale of the toll of excess weight over the years and miles. YMMV!
HELP: I Bought an Overweight Overlander
Hi everyone, TLDR: just bought a Tacoma with 138k on it a month ago and have had to replace rear axle, and now the transmission is shot. It seems I bought a lemon, what do I do now? I’m desperately seeking advice as I seem to have found myself in one of the worse situations a new overlander...
www.expeditionportal.com
Pretty sure (have a mutual acquaintance who knew the trucks condition well) the original owner/builder was maintaining it well and honest about its condition on sale. More of tale of the toll of excess weight over the years and miles. YMMV!