GWNF again

[Clark White]

clark,

i have worked with gregg jackson (the virginina land use officer for the virginina four wheel drive association) for the past three years as part of our earth day clean up of all of the areas mentioned. i would be happy to show you around next time you are in the area.

Thanks! I have been up there a few times, but other then Dry River and a few more major roads, I have not explored a whole lot and always enjoy meeting up with someone who knows the local area.

Clark

 

[mcm4090]

Driving through rivers is one thing, everyone on the East coast knows that driving in rivers is illegal.

Kephart is a small feeder stream, or creek, that dumps into the Dry River. You crossed this stream on your way to or from Dry Run Road.

In case you do not know what Treading Lightly is, here is some information plucked right from the GWNF Forest Service web site:
Quote:
Riders are encouraged to tread lightly to protect the resources and environment. Here are some tips:

* Avoid running over young trees, shrubs and grasses -- this damages and kills them.
* Stay off soft, wet trails and trails already badly rutted.
* Ford streams only at designated crossings.
* Stay on designated routes -- resist the urge to pioneer a new trail or switchback.
* Do not chase or intentionally disturb wildlife.
* Take your litter with you when you leave the national forest.
* Obey closures and regulatory signs.
* Travel at safe and reasonable speeds.
.

That's a little confusing.

 

[Roverhound]

Clark, saying thoughtless people is not an insult although you never said it was, others here have stated it.
There are plenty of "perfect two tracks" that are indeed illegal.
The deep water you crossed is so obviously not the trail I don't see how anyone here can defend it.
Yes the Local Jeep Club was in the wrong and we do have major problems with locals here tearing things up then crying when it gets shut down. They don't get it as apparently a lot of people here don't (not an insult, an observation).
Once again, river crossing are fine, driving in rivers is not.
Don't worry though, I don't expect this area to be a problem much longer, I expect it to be gated soon. It's a shame, Dry Run Road, the actual trail that goes up the mountain is a pretty drive winding up Dry Run and ending on top of the mountain.
And again to you others, if you don't know or aren't sure don't do it.

 

[mr_ed]

Clark, saying thoughtless people is not an insult although you never said it was, others here have stated it.
There are plenty of "perfect two tracks" that are indeed illegal.
The deep water you crossed is so obviously not the trail I don't see how anyone here can defend it.
Yes the Local Jeep Club was in the wrong and we do have major problems with locals here tearing things up then crying when it gets shut down. They don't get it as apparently a lot of people here don't (not an insult, an observation).
Once again, river crossing are fine, driving in rivers is not.
Don't worry though, I don't expect this area to be a problem much longer, I expect it to be gated soon. It's a shame, Dry Run Road, the actual trail that goes up the mountain is a pretty drive winding up Dry Run and ending on top of the mountain.
And again to you others, if you don't know or aren't sure don't do it.

Here's a BLATANTLY obvious and common-sense observation that apparantly YOU don't get: DRIVING AN OFFROAD VEHICLE ANYWHERE OFF-ROAD IS INHERENTLY HARMFULL TO THE ENVIRONMENT!!!

Where Clark crossed was, by my opinion, the most obvious place to cross! I should know what I'm talking about, I was there. I was driving the V-Strom. In my humble opinion, myself and the KLR had to drive an aroundabout fashion to get across, definitly NOT the most logical place. The only reason I didn't cross at the obvious crossing (where Clark crossed) was because I didn't want to entirely soak my feet and legs. Put signs up if it's that dang important! Interestingly enough, when the highway department or the city shut down a road, THEY put signs up!!! Quite a novel idea! However why they do this, I have no idea. DiscoD and Roverhound have already said that a closed path-of-transit is immediately recognizable as such without signs!!!!

As far as the "driving doughnuts in our lawn or taking a dump in our swimming pool" comments...:Wow1: Wow I don't even know how to begin to twist my mind around such an absurd attempt at a comparison!

DiscoD and Roverhound, environmental fanatics don't care where you cross that river at. They will try to shut that place down no matter how careful you are. I appreciate your concern for your trails, and I understand completely, but the unfortunate fact is we all are dealing with a movement fueled by fanatic ferver and not common sense. Regardless of where we cross that river at, they will raise hell about it and try to shut it down.

If we cross 20' downstream it will adversely affect your trout fishing just as much as crossing anywhere else. Where Clark crossed was not any more harmful to the environment than where we crossed on the bikes. Simple as that.

In fact, you two, since you're so concerned about the environment and the impact of off-highway vehicles, why don't you set the example. Do the common sense thing! Sell your bloody Rovers and buy a Prius, since that's what Big Brother tells us is the most environmentally responsible thing to do!

Peace :victory:

Ed

 

[Roverhound]

You just made me laugh.
I saw you guys last week pulling into Riven Rock park.
Like I said, it was thinking like this that got Tellico shut down.

 

[SKSV]

I'm a "local" and haven't yet been up to Dry Run, but I want to know if the "crossing" leads to anyplace other than the island? If I was driving that trail, I would have chosen to cross where the bikes did instead of in the deep water, for a number of reasons.

4x4 drivers and conservationists go hand in hand. My husband and I have 4 4wd vehicles and he is a hunter and we are both fly fishers. Having respect for the land AND the waters is important, especially on the East Coast where our public lands are limited.

Thanks for enjoying the area and for agreeing to be more careful and aware of the correct driving areas in the future. We've seen too many "trails" around here closed and certainly want to preserve as many as we can.

PS for your info, that 'old barn' is part of Skylark Farm, a property now owned by Washington and Lee University and managed by a close family friend. If you come through around Xmas time--it's a great place to choose and cut your Fraser Fur tree and the proceeds support the University.

 

[DiscoD]

I'm not even going to respond to the e-wheeling moronic comments made here within the last 24-hours. It's so painfully obvious that there are many "Jeepers" here on this site with the "Jeeper" attitude in regards to OHV'ing.

I'm going to the site tomorrow anyway, so I'll take some detailed pics of where this clown was driving. I'll also e-mail the Federal enforcement officer for the area and point him to the link of this thread and allow him, if he wishes, to comment on the do's and do nots. Mike Alexander is a very understanding and great guy. He's also very sensitive to the effects demonstrated from OHV'ers.

I'll also quote the law, word-for-word, in regards to leaving the designated path and river crossings. I would go ahead and do it now, but I think a few of you need to sleep on it for a night. Some of you are so downright wrong it's pathetic. I can't believe some of you call yourselves 4-wheelers. I don't care if you take that as an insult or not.

I'll also be turning over the pictures of the OP to Mike Alexander. If Mike takes these pictures to Court, so be it. If not, consider it a get-out-of-jail-free card. The attempt was made to educate. Whether you like the tone of the voice or not is void. Maybe the fine speaks louder than words. The ball was in your court. Tell it to the judge and cry like a little ***** later.

 

[Roverhound]

I was there today but forgot my camera.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/gwj/maps_brochures/20080204-mvum-final.pdf
Map 9, road 304.

 

[DiscoD]

I was there today but forgot my camera.

No ********? I was up in Union until ~5:00 watching the deer through the cross-hairs. Too lazy to shoot anything. I drove down to the Dry River store, and then to Ike's. If I would have known I would have driven up to meet you and shared with you what I found for sale at the Dry River store. It's too late, now. It's already gone.

 

[Clark White]

I'm not even going to respond to the e-wheeling moronic comments made here within the last 24-hours. It's so painfully obvious that there are many "Jeepers" here on this site with the "Jeeper" attitude in regards to OHV'ing.

I'm going to the site tomorrow anyway, so I'll take some detailed pics of where this clown was driving. I'll also e-mail the Federal enforcement officer for the area and point him to the link of this thread and allow him, if he wishes, to comment on the do's and do nots. Mike Alexander is a very understanding and great guy. He's also very sensitive to the effects demonstrated from OHV'ers.

I'll also quote the law, word-for-word, in regards to leaving the designated path and river crossings. I would go ahead and do it now, but I think a few of you need to sleep on it for a night. Some of you are so downright wrong it's pathetic. I can't believe some of you call yourselves 4-wheelers. I don't care if you take that as an insult or not.

I'll also be turning over the pictures of the OP to Mike Alexander. If Mike takes these pictures to Court, so be it. If not, consider it a get-out-of-jail-free card. The attempt was made to educate. Whether you like the tone of the voice or not is void. Maybe the fine speaks louder than words. The ball was in your court. Tell it to the judge and cry like a little ***** later.

HAHA! You your self said my driving there has no effect on the area, it has an effect on peoples perceptions. I already said I won't be driving through there anymore now that I know it's illegal, so I DID listen to your feeble ATTEMPT at education. The problem everyone has with your comments isn't that you asked me not to drive through there again, it's that you act like a total piece of dookie the way you go about it.

Please, quote me the law! Makes no difference as I already agreed I will cross 20yrds further down in the future. Your being a complete jerk doesn't make you any more right, and it sure as hell doesn't help your position out in any way shape or form. Maybe someday when you grow up and can stop acting like a spoiled brat who didn't get his way at school we can carry on an intelligent debate on the subject. In the mean time, it seams to me I have made some very good points, and you have done nothing but sling insults my way and dodge every one of my points, making a total ******** of yourself. Say what you will, but learn to be an adult about it.

You are more then welcome to forward this thread to Mike Alexander. It would be refreshing to have someone explain the details of the situation in an intelligent manner. Please post your quote of the law, but do the world a favor and don't do anything more then copy and paste that law as your own thoughts are meaningless. For the sake of moving on to far more important things then arguing with an ill mannered child, I am going to leave this thread alone unless you either grow up, or someone such as Mike Alexander comes in and can intelligently talk about the subject.

Clark

 

[mr_ed]

I was there today but forgot my camera.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/gwj/maps_brochures/20080204-mvum-final.pdf
Map 9, road 304.

Thanks for posting this up...it's a good set of maps. Gives a much better idea of what goes where than my GPS does and should cut down on back-tracking.

Unfortunately, with regards to the discussion at hand, it does not show enough detail to have allowed Clark to know where the "legal crossing" was or was not.

I'm not even going to respond to the e-wheeling moronic comments made here within the last 24-hours. It's so painfully obvious that there are many "Jeepers" here on this site with the "Jeeper" attitude in regards to OHV'ing.

I'm going to the site tomorrow anyway, so I'll take some detailed pics of where this clown was driving. I'll also e-mail the Federal enforcement officer for the area and point him to the link of this thread and allow him, if he wishes, to comment on the do's and do nots. Mike Alexander is a very understanding and great guy. He's also very sensitive to the effects demonstrated from OHV'ers.

I'll also quote the law, word-for-word, in regards to leaving the designated path and river crossings. I would go ahead and do it now, but I think a few of you need to sleep on it for a night. Some of you are so downright wrong it's pathetic. I can't believe some of you call yourselves 4-wheelers. I don't care if you take that as an insult or not.

I'll also be turning over the pictures of the OP to Mike Alexander. If Mike takes these pictures to Court, so be it. If not, consider it a get-out-of-jail-free card. The attempt was made to educate. Whether you like the tone of the voice or not is void. Maybe the fine speaks louder than words. The ball was in your court. Tell it to the judge and cry like a little ***** later.

Again, if the road is not legal to be driven on (i.e. closed), there needs to be signs so non-locals can know where they can't go. There were no signs, no barricades, tank traps, kelly humps, tree trunks, nothing. Just a well-driven road running into the river on one side and another running out of it on the other. On several occasions in the past, when we've been camping up there, we've seen locals in their trucks going through there too.

When we travel 4 hours from where we live to enjoy the woods, we relay on signs, barricades, etc. If there is a sign or a barricade denying access to somewhere, we honor it. Because, despite your catagorizing us as "Jeepers," we do in fact care about land use issues. We also rely on local knowledge, and on several occasions local knowledge has told and demonstrated to us that it is ok to ford that river.

It really is quite a shame. How hard would it have been to politely point out to Clark that where he crossed was not allowed, understanding that he was from out-of-town and therefore not likely to be familiar with the finer points of how things are run in your neck of the woods? He would have apologized, thanked you for info, and everybody could be happy. (In fact he did apologize and thank you for the info.)

But instead you went ape****, calling him "stupid," "clown," and were just generally insulting. We, of course, are going to respect the local wishes regarding that particular crossing, despite the fact that there are no signs saying no and a clear road running through it. But how the hell do you expect most people to take you seriously when you're flying off the handle like that?? Most people would take you for a dip*** fanatic and treat you as such.

And no, it was not because of "clowns" like us that got Tellico shut down. It was because of people shredding up the landscape, blazing their own trails, ignoring barricades, and leaving all their spam tins and beer cans that got Tellico shut down. A guy driving at a slow, concientious speed through a well established river crossing in a 4Runner chock-full of other peoples' garbage that he is packing out will not get your trails shut down.

Tell your Forest Ranger friend to be on the lookout for the underage dude and his 3 little girlfriends that we yelled at and ran off last fall for throwing their empty Bud Lights into that same hole.

Ed

 

[mr_ed]

I'm a "local" and haven't yet been up to Dry Run, but I want to know if the "crossing" leads to anyplace other than the island? If I was driving that trail, I would have chosen to cross where the bikes did instead of in the deep water, for a number of reasons.

Hi SKSV. Yes the road does lead beyond the island, which actually isn't an island. There appears to have been water running around the northern side at one time, maybe the afformentioned Hurricane Fran had something to do with that. Now that "island" is actually a penninsula.

Also, if you cross where my bike did, you cut across the little jutting shore (where both bikes are parked in the picture) and have to go right back into the river, in the southwestern side of the hole where the 4Runner crossed, which is just as deep (hence why the bikes didn't go any further). After getting across the penninsula, the road crosses back through the river, and up onto the southern bank where it curves on around the mountain to the south. The only other way to get there that wouldn't involve fording the river would be to drive up the river and bypass the penninsula altogether, which of course is no bueno.

4x4 drivers and conservationists go hand in hand. My husband and I have 4 4wd vehicles and he is a hunter and we are both fly fishers. Having respect for the land AND the waters is important, especially on the East Coast where our public lands are limited.

Thanks for enjoying the area and for agreeing to be more careful and aware of the correct driving areas in the future. We've seen too many "trails" around here closed and certainly want to preserve as many as we can.

I agree with you 100%. I have no regard for the "mud bog" school of driving. I hope these trails stay open and I'm always glad to do what I can as far as staying on established roads, picking up litter, etc... whenever I'm up in GWNF (or any other wilderness area for that matter).

I'm looking forward to getting back up there this spring on the bike and exploring some of the mountain highways around there! Just those few curvy miles of HWY 33 up to the Switzer lake road were absolutely :drool:!!!

Cheers!

Ed

 

[DiscoD]

And no, it was not because of "clowns" like us that got Tellico shut down. It was because of people shredding up the landscape, blazing their own trails, ignoring barricades, and leaving all their spam tins and beer cans that got Tellico shut down. A guy driving at a slow, concientious speed through a well established river crossing in a 4Runner chock-full of other peoples' garbage that he is packing out will not get your trails shut down.

Yeah, but was there a sign?

 

[DiscoD]

A guy driving at a slow, concientious speed through a well established river crossing in a 4Runner chock-full of other peoples' garbage that he is packing out will not get your trails shut down.

I guess it's not just in my neck of the woods that we think you're full of fluff.........
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33330&page=4

 

[mr_ed]

I guess it's not just in my neck of the woods that we think you're full of fluff.........
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33330&page=4

Seems to me this thread is simply another example of what I said earlier...

environmental fanatics don't care where you cross that river at. They will try to shut that place down no matter how careful you are.

For example, the Hummer pic; the stream was not muddy because of the H1s, but because of recent rainfall. The H1s were not being irresponsible or "Jeepers." There was no harm being done in that picture whatsoever.