Harbor Freight (type) Trailer Suspensions

[john61ct]

Yes Timbren is my top choice.

7K rating is per pair, so 14K is max as tandem.

Easily removable, and a custom frame design would also allow easy repositioning forward or back to keep towball weight at 10-12%

You can swap in the 5K rubber bits in the 7K model.

Two separate trailers is not an option.

Worst case carry a 3K set and swap out.

Carrying the spare trailer parts gets to be a decent load in itself

 

[high-and-dry]

Probably better to have a sub frame that is swapable. unbolt one, jack the trailer, roll it out, roll in the new one lower and bolt it on.

 

[old_CWO]

What would you suggest for a trailer that needs to haul 12000lbs sometimes including off road

but most of the time only 3-4000?

If this is for a single axle application I would consider rear leaf springs out of a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup and Air Lift 7500 air springs/bags. You get your desired variable load capacity without doing anything but adding or removing a little bit of compressed air. You can even account for off balanced loads from side to side with the air springs.

Edit: Duh, I didn't fully read your posts. Tandem axle configuration - I have seen several single axle trailers with leafs and bags but never a tandem. I don't see why it wouldn't work the same just using four bags instead of two. Myself I wouldn't want to have to reconfigure major mechanical components for the weight capability change so the bags seem appealing. Just go big on the axles, lighter on the springs and let the air springs make up the difference. Airing up four separate bags is still a lot less effort than swapping assemblies.

 

[john61ct]

Interesting, I'll need to do some more research.

I assumed tandem's required for when gross gets up to 14000.

But if your way gives easier flexibility, and likely lots cheaper. . .

But sliding the suspension forward or back I'm guessing would be harder?

 

[john61ct]

Probably better to have a sub frame that is swapable. unbolt one, jack the trailer, roll it out, roll in the new one lower and bolt it on.

Problem is, no "home base" for storing stuff, or even if there were, the unit might be thousands of miles away even in another country when the swap was needed.

Looking ideally for everything to be mobile and self-contained, if at all possible.

 

[old_CWO]

Interesting, I'll need to do some more research.

I assumed tandem's required for when gross gets up to 14000.

But if your way gives easier flexibility, and likely lots cheaper. . .

But sliding the suspension forward or back I'm guessing would be harder?

As far as I know, the biggest commercially available single axle Dexter is 12K (dually) but there might be something stronger. Mobile home or military surplus perhaps?

I would think it's easier to change tongue length than axle placement to fiddle around with tongue weight.

Regardless, 12K is getting up there for towing off pavement, what on earth are you carrying?!? In this situation I would probably lean towards tandem 7 or 8K axles with brakes on both and stout trailer springs. Building that for true "off road" would be pretty challenging IMO. It sounds like you need two trailers and a beefy truck...

 

[rnArmy]

Yes; 12K sounds way too big for an overlanding trailer. Especially up here in the PNW where the trails are narrow. That's why a little overlanding trailer built off a HF-type trailer frame makes sense.

The original overlanding trailer (and still the best in my opinion!) are the old WWII trailers. They're rated at 0.5K, but I'm sure they were overloaded frequently during the war. Their tubs were 41" wide by 72" long. Even today, this seems to be about the perfect size for a little overlanding trailer, and many aftermarket trailer makers use this size as a base for their overlanding trailers. There are whole websites dedicated to these little WWII trailers (M-100 and M-416 trailers). Ideally, your overlanding trailer will be no wider than your tow vehicle (figuring if your vehicle can get through it, so can your trailer).

And yes, if you're needing to pull 12K, you're looking at a full-size 3/4 or 1-ton work truck to pull it. Definitely outside what a trailer based off a HF-type trailer frame can do, and the intent of this thread.


Notice the axle placement in relation to the tub in the picture above. It is just slightly behind the midpoint of the tub.

Some folks will take a 4x8' HF-type trailer frame and shorten it and/or narrow it (easily done). So instead of being limited to 4' long, you can go 5' or 6' long (which is about ideal) and still be maneuverable off-road. And this is a perfect time to decide on your suspension - and where to put the axle in relation to the tub. As the picture above shows, just a little behind the centerline of the tub. Mine is just a little further back. I was limited to where I could place the front spring mount because of the two pieces of angle that tie-in the frame to the tongue, and by the jerry cans mounted on the sides, and fender placement. But I got it as close to being just behind the center point of the tub as I could. Hanging the spare off the back (every trailer should have a spare) helps to balance the load and maintain decent tongue weight.

 

[john61ct]

Sorry to divert the thread if only that type of trailer is meant to be discussed. Mod feel free to split the topic off to a separate thread if warranted.

The heaviest loads I need to haul - in separate configurations, not at the same time of course are:

Bulk water, propane

Genset, fuel tank & batteries

Soil, sand, gravel other bulk stuff.

Ocean-going sailboat, up to about 32'.

20' connex, ideally 40' but I think may be too difficult for the first iteration.

A 4x4 vehicle, truck or van, possibly electric.

The slide-on self-contained "living pod" is probably the lightest.

Yes I realize I'm shooting for a lot here, but planning on getting help with the engineering.

By "off road" I do mean to only go where it will not be difficult, mostly dry desert country not narrow trails into forests or up mountains

not "exploring" just for fun, but utility, getting from A to B, in places where there may be no paved roads.

 

[OverlandNA]

old WWII trailers. They're rated at 0.5K

They were designed to float 500lbs with 6" of freeboard. It is my understanding that on highway they were rated for 750Lbs,

 

[rnArmy]

They were designed to float 500lbs with 6" of freeboard. It is my understanding that on highway they were rated for 750Lbs,

I didn't know that. Thanks!

Someone asked me about my trailer tub. Here are the specs:



It was made by a company named "Diamond Deluxe" out of N.C. if I remember right. They made hunting dog boxes for trucks. I don't know if they're still in business or not. But all the tub is is a big aluminum tool box (think along the lines of a truck bed tool box) in the shape of a WWII jeep trailer (flared at the top). Not as long as the WWII trailer tubs, but much taller. With a hinged lid and lockable latches on the side. My trailer's frame is 40" x 50". Some of the HF-type trailer frames are closer to 41" x 48".

 

[old_CWO]

I would love a reasonably priced faithful execution of a quarter ton with inside tub dimensions of 50" wide, 78" long at the floor and a tailgate. While the original style is absolutely iconic I find the dimensions frustrating for carrying camping gear. Not having a tailgate isn't my favorite either. So many guys are bolting a bunch of extra stuff on the outside of the small trailers that the total footprint is already approaching the size I am proposing (looking at you RN!) Why not just make the trailer a scosh bigger and put everything inside instead? You surely get less mud plastered on your gear and with a lid your stuff is more secure. Current 4x4s are massive compared to the flatties that original quarter tons were designed to pair with. A bigger trailer will scale just fine with modern junk. Heck, M416s look like toys behind current Wranglers.

 

[rnArmy]

I would love a reasonably priced faithful execution of a quarter ton with inside tub dimensions of 50" wide, 78" long at the floor and a tailgate. While the original style is absolutely iconic I find the dimensions frustrating for carrying camping gear. Not having a tailgate isn't my favorite either. So many guys are bolting a bunch of extra stuff on the outside of the small trailers that the total footprint is already approaching the size I am proposing (looking at you RN!) Why not just make the trailer a scosh bigger and put everything inside instead? You surely get less mud plastered on your gear and with a lid your stuff is more secure. Current 4x4s are massive compared to the flatties that original quarter tons were designed to pair with. A bigger trailer will scale just fine with modern junk. Heck, M416s look like toys behind current Wranglers.

Guilty as charged! Yup; that's me. These types of trailers just look right being pulled by a Jeep. My trailer has evolved over the years, and sometimes it was easier to just bolt stuff to the outside because I could. Since I was limited to the 40" x 50" footprint of the frame for the tub, I had to make choices. One of the things I learned was a cooler takes up a ton of space inside the tub, so I lengthened the tongue and put a cooler tray up front (and so glad I did). The more I can keep outside, the more I can put inside the tub. I wanted to carry extra gas, but I didn't want gas cans inside the tub, so the 2.5 gallon Jerrys got bolted to the sides. And shovels I don't care if they get dirty or not, and it is readily available. The 5lb propane tank... I guess that could have gone inside, but most folks put them outside (I do have the green 1lb propane cans inside the tub). It definitely has grown! But not too big that I can't pull it behind the Willys - the track width is almost identical between the Willys and my lil' trailer.

Check out Dinoot trailers: Jeep Trailer by Dinoot | Jeep Trailers by Dinoot

M416 based trailer kits for the classic look: M416 Trailer Tub Kit by Dinoot Trailers Specs

Or their J-Series trailer tubs: Jeep Trailer J-Series | Jeep Trailers by Dinoot

I think they can customize the length (definitely your desired 78" long with the J-Series); you'd have to talk to them about increasing the width. And you can have it with or without a tailgate.

For the record (for our listening audience) the larger HF frames are 48" wide by 96" long (4' x 8').

If I had a tailgate on mine, it would be difficult to have spare tire on the back (gotta have a spare). I could design a swing-away spare tire carrier for the back, but I'm happy with how it is. The trailer's tires/bolt pattern combo match none of my three vehicles I've towed the trailer with. Either the bolt patterns match but the tire size doesn't match, or the bolt pattern on the trailer (5 on 4.5") don't match the vehicle's bolt patterns (5 on 5.5"). And the trailer's tire size doesn't match any of my tow vehicles.

Edit: Four vehicles have pulled the trailer. I forgot about my buddy's 98 ZJ when we took it and the trailer up to Canada and the Dempster Highway (picture below during one of the ferry crossing up to Inuvik on the Dempster). I learned a lot about the trailer (what works and what could be improved upon) on that trip too.



My truck and Willys have a drop-down tailgate from the factory (great for cooking on). But I did put a drop-down tailgate on my TJ (the trailer's primary tow vehicle). So technically no matter what I'm towing with, I've got a tailgate. Does that count? SWAG Jeep Wrangler Aluminum Drop Down Tailgate Conversion Kit (swagoffroad.com)




I've tried googling "Diamond Deluxe" (the company that built my tub) but when I click on the links I get an error message. They build aluminum hunting dog boxes for the back of trucks. They can build one to any size you want for a reasonable price to your specs. I don't know if they're out of business or if their web site is down.

Edit: Check out Aluminum Dog Boxes, Live Traps, Handling Equipment (jacksoncreekmfg.com) . Diamond Deluxe was part of this manufacturing company.

Aluminum Dog Boxes, Live Traps, Handling Equipment (jacksoncreekmfg.com)

 

[jgaz]

Thank you for putting this excellent info here on expo.

I used your thread several times on the other forum while helping my nephew with his trailer build.
Your experience and info are very valuable but the info can be a pain to find on the other forum with all the ads and pop ups.

 

[rnArmy]

Thank you for putting this excellent info here on expo.

I used your thread several times on the other forum while helping my nephew with his trailer build.
Your experience and info are very valuable but the info can be a pain to find on the other forum with all the ads and pop ups.

You're welcome! I'm glad I can be helping someone.

I'm a member of that "other forum" in that I pay I think $30/year. So it keeps ads and such from popping up (that drives me crazy too). It would be cool to see pictures of your nephew's trailer on that "other forum's" trailer thread.

Jeeps and trailers are a natural fit. Here's a picture of "us" after finishing the grueling Washington Backcountry Discovery Route (WABDR). It was a fun week. We had mud, snow, tight squeezes; had to use the chainsaw a time-or-two (which is kept inside the trailer). The Jeep and trailer are filthy - this trailer gets used and used hard!. There's no way the TJ itself could have held all the gear I took on this trip. Thank-goodness for having a lil' trailer!

Oh; in case you're wondering... we did not cut down any trees to make the trail wider (tread lightly).

 

[rnArmy]

This has been driving me crazy - I knew "Diamond Deluxe" was part of a larger manufacturing company. Then I finally found it:

Diamond Deluxe (the maker of my trailer's tub) was a part of Jackson Creek Manufacturing Incorporated.

Aluminum Dog Boxes, Live Traps, Handling Equipment (jacksoncreekmfg.com)

Aluminum Dog Boxes, Live Traps, Handling Equipment (jacksoncreekmfg.com) (this link mentions the term "Diamond Deluxe" under standard features)

They may be able to help you if you're interested in having an aluminum diamond plate trailer tub made to your specs. I've been very happy with mine, and I've had it for quite a few years now.

I'll bet they could even make it... say... 50" wide by 78" long at the base of the tub.

In my case, the track-width of the trailer is within an inch or so of the track-width of the Willys. The trailer's track-width is ever-so-slightly wider. With different rims and tires it would be the same.