How are those newer Tacos working out?

[tacollie]

New trucks work but they work differently. If you get in a new one expecting your old truck you will be disappointed. Coming from my 90 to my 02 I really didn't like the 02 at first. 167k miles later I was sad to sell it. When I got my first 2nd gen I hated it. Now I've had a 05, 07, and 09. I haven't looked back.

 

[jasmtis]

My 4wd is adventure only. I don't commute or drive it in the salt at all. I don't really get daily driving the overlanding vehicle. Used reliable cars are dirt cheap for commuting. Because of this it will last me a long time. When and if something major finally needs to be rebuilt I can take the time and easily pay for it not having monthly payments for anything.


I work with new and pre-production vehicles as part of my job and some of the newer powertrains can be impressive, but as an overall package I just hate modern vehicles more and more as time goes on. The best case scenario is you have to turn off and configure 20 things to make the car do what you want that reset every time you start the damn thing. The worst is you can't control any of it and the car never does what you want.

Strangely I have 3 2002 vehicles. 4wd reg cab Taco 2wd reg cab Taco, Nissan Sentra SER SPEC V. All three cost less than half what one new truck truck would cost. I get to have fun in the dirt, a reliable commuter, and something fun on pavement. All three have helical LSDs and behave passively exactly how I want and drive 100% predictably. The maintenance on all three combined is probably 1/5 what a monthly payment would cost for a new truck, and some of that maintenance is upgrading from OEM. Having the fleet means I can do all sorts of stuff I can't do with 1 car. I often have an extra car at work for instance so I can work on a car and drive one of the others if I don't finish or need parts etc.

Not for everyone I know but for me buying premium used vehicles and keeping them up just works so much better for me.

I've done it both ways and I must say, it's really nice having a vehicle that does everything you need a vehicle to do, always works, never costs you unexpected money or time and never means you skip a trip you were really pumped for. It depends on your life really, I work a ton and like to enjoy my time off. When I had less time tied up with work, less money to spend on a vehicle and more time to tinker a fleet of older cars was great. Now, I sometimes have an entire month where I simply don't have more than 3 hours at any given point to turn wrenches unless I skip the trips I'm into this stuff for. It's hard to make new/newer cars make sense from a purely financial standpoint, but if you take time value into consideration they sometimes make a ton of sense.

I missed wrenching so I bought an old Land Rover. It's fun when I get to take it on trips, and when it breaks I can spend a bit of time every night and the odd open Saturday or Sunday to work on it. I must say, wrenching is way more fun when it's not 2 AM and I need to get to work tomorrow. It's also nice that if I decide I'm done with it, I can sell it and my life goes on as normal.

I am sort of joking about the 20 things but if you drive enough 2018 vehicles, particularly loaded ones, you will see I am not far off.

Like what?? My 2018 Tacoma has easily defeatable traction control, everything else just kind of works like every other car I've ever owned. Even the active safety systems, I was worried about them nannying too much but honestly over 30,000 miles of driving over the past 8 months I've been beeped at maybe 5 times total when someone in front of me slammed on their brakes and I don't think it's even once applied the brakes for me.

 

[Clutch]

. Ive never driven newer model so I don't know.

Go drive one, and decide for yourself. As much as I like the old stuff...the new stuff is niiiiiiice. As much as a curmudgeon I am....don't mind the new trucks. Some of the new safety stuff is welcomed. Back up cameras are great for hooking up a trailer and parallel parking. Or not running over some kid backing out of the driveway. Seems like no matter how many times I check or double/triple check. Someone always sneaks into my blind spot.

They do things a little differently...but I don't find them overly nannying. That or I am getting really soft as I age...

. The current 3.5L V6 2GR in the Tacoma is a fine motor but not nearly as good as a truck engine.

Did Toyota ever put a truck engine in these trucks?

1GR...peak torque at 4000 rpm. Not a truck engine.

 

[03humpalot]

I agree with Clutch.

Ive run the gamut from an 81 toyota 4x4 manual with the 22re which needed constant wrenching to stay running even though it had only 70k miles on the truck, to Jeeps, to full size 3/4 ton diesels, to hilux diesels, to g waggons/land cruisers/and numerous other vehicles overseas.... and now im back in a 3rd gen (2017 access cab long bed TRD offroad i purchased used with 14,000 miles on it). AND I COULD NOT BE HAPPIER.

The ride quality both on and offroad is an order of magnitude better in the new yota. Crawl control and the traction control stuff i really dont need but the rear e locker is nice. I have owned a lot of solid front axle rigs and i have to say the ride quality is much, much better with the IFS.

My new truck is both my daily driver and my trail/hunting/camping vehicle. I currently have a 700 mile commute to work 4 times a month. I live in Northwest Montana and work in North Dakota on a 2 week on/2 week off rotation.

Im driving through snow and ice, rain or shine, in the mountains crossing the continental divide down into the flatlander country all year long. When im off work my rabid Shitzu and i are offroad in said truck wheeling/camping/hunting, and generally avoiding civilzation as much as is possible. Ive had it for 13 months now and she's at 52k miles.

Ive used it to pull stuck tractors and 1 ton ford diesel pickups with tire chains out of snowbanks with BF goodwrench ko2 all terrains.

The truck does not eat tires near as fast as any other vehicle ive owned, its extreme winter condition driving performance is VASTLY superior to any other 4wd vehicle ive owned, it gets better mileage than my 06 dodge cummins as long as there isnt a 20mph or greater headwind and is very comfortable to pilot both on and offroad. It only requires an oil change every 10,000 miles and coming from a diesel, i couldnt believe how clean the oil was after my first three 10k mile oil changes, the used oil looked brand spanking new.


Electronic doodadery...OH MY!


Crawl control has saved my bacon once and didnt do anything the second time i got it stuck in snowbanks while out playing. On corrugated roads turning off traction control is as easy as depressing a button. Air down your tires to 25-30 psi and you will just float down the road with the OEM TRD offroad suspension. The TRD folks really got the suspension dialed for that rig (most weight ive had in the truck is probably 5-600lbs in the bed and backseat though.

I have a few small mods coming up (OME suspension, ARB snorkel to keep it from breathing gravel road dust, front bumper for protection against animal strikes, and a swing out rear when i can afford to do so) and thats really all that i need for this particular rig.

I like this truck so much that im planning on buying another 3rd gen dual cab longbed and having diesel toys install a hilux diesel engine/tranny/and fully building it out if i can get my cabin and property sold next year.

Yep, selling my house to buy another truck.

In short, the future is now.

Embrace that new stuff, it might just surprise you.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Did Toyota ever put a truck engine in these trucks?

1GR...peak torque at 4000 rpm. Not a truck engine.

Devil's in the details. The 1GR has a flat torque curve. Actually so did the 5VZ, not quite as good but it lacks the VVT (darned technology). It is developing within 95% of the peak torque by 2,000 RPM and it's even better than 80% of the peak at 1,500 RPM. These engines are a long way from the old days of the 22R-E where the torque and HP tracked each other. Or the really old days where a truck engine that developed lots of torque at 2k would redline at 4,000 RPM. Like the old 2F, it would climb a wall at idle but it was terrible on the highway. Seriously, other than the fuel consumption I do like this engine. Honest truth is I would still buy a diesel if Toyota offered one for the low range MPG but otherwise I do enjoy driving my truck, not withstanding the poor gear ratio transmission Toyota went with (which is only really that I wish it had a lower 1st and reverse).

 

[Clutch]

Devil's in the details. The 1GR has a flat torque curve. Actually so did the 5VZ, not quite as good but it lacks the VVT (darned technology). It is developing within 95% of the peak torque by 2,000 RPM and it's even better than 80% of the peak at 1,500 RPM. These engines are a long way from the old days of the 22R-E where the torque and HP tracked each other. Or the really old days where a truck engine that developed lots of torque at 2k would redline at 4,000 RPM. Like the old 2F, it would climb a wall at idle but it was terrible on the highway. Seriously, other than the fuel consumption I do like this engine. Honest truth is I would still buy a diesel if Toyota offered one for the low range MPG but otherwise I do enjoy driving my truck, not withstanding the poor gear ratio transmission Toyota went with (which is only really that I wish it had a lower 1st and reverse).


View attachment 478291

I find the Toyota engines revy....compared to an old big block or diesel, or even Ford's EcoBoost. Flat torque curve yes, but don't liked to be lugged with a load. Though I don't really consider these trucks a truck...more like a car with an open trunk. (not that is a bad thing)

 

[DaveInDenver]

The 4 cylinders need to be revved and the 3VZ and 5VZ to some extent. The 1GR is a lot better balanced comparatively. It's not a 2F, but then again my FJ40 hated going long distances on the highway and was too reluctant to rev when you'd want it. But it's a personal thing. I like an engine that is willing to rev when I hang myself out on a 2-lane to make a pass.

I think it's something to bear in mind that the 1GR has outlived the 1KD and is still offered as the petrol alternative to the 1GD diesels. If you do some poking around on Aussie forums you get sort of the reverse gas/diesel argument we do here. That blokes there are too diesel biased and haven't appreciated the 1GR. I think consumption is really the main factor.

If I had to state it differently, I define a good "truck" motor in that it's got a useful delivery of power off idle but doesn't drive like a tractor motor. A "car" motor to me is like a 22R-E, which needed super low gears because it was useless below 2k. Some of that is of course just displacement. I think your definition probably would trend more towards the tractor side of the spectrum, if I had to guess.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Though I don't really consider these trucks a truck...more like a car with an open trunk. (not that is a bad thing)

Just thinking about this, too. It's a spectrum. What we call trucks, even "real" ones like the Hilux are cars compared against a L170 International or something. But damned if I'd want to drive something like that even just from the farm to town, much less for a couple of hundred miles of washboard roads. So car/truck/whatever, I dunno. They're all cars with different features I guess.

 

[Clutch]

The 4 cylinders need to be revved and the 3VZ and 5VZ to some extent. The 1GR is a lot better balanced comparatively. It's not a 2F, but then again my FJ40 hated going long distances on the highway and was too reluctant to rev when you'd want it. But it's a personal thing. I like an engine that is willing to rev when I hang myself out on a 2-lane to make a pass.

I think it's something to bear in mind that the 1GR has outlived the 1KD and is still offered as the petrol alternative to the 1GD diesels. If you do some poking around on Aussie forums you get sort of the reverse gas/diesel argument we do here. That blokes there are too diesel biased and haven't appreciated the 1GR. I think consumption is really the main factor.

If I had to state it differently, I define a good "truck" motor in that it's got a useful delivery of power off idle but doesn't drive like a tractor motor. A "car" motor to me is like a 22R-E, which needed super low gears because it was useless below 2k. Some of that is of course just displacement. I think your definition probably would trend more towards the tractor side of the spectrum, if I had to guess.

They are all great engines. And one of the main reasons I started driving Toyotas is because they are more car-like than truck like. Awfully nice to jump in one at the end of the day of operating heavy equipment and larger work trucks. Great little trucks, but get strained real quick if you try to really work 'em.

You are correct, a true truck engine is more tractor like for me. I like to lope along around 2000 RPM, Toyota engines seem to be happiest at 3500ish rpm...if anyone should be driving a diesel it should be me. I just don't want to pay for it.

 

[phsycle]

I have a 2003 Taco that I dearly love everything works I put in a new OME suspension, have a more powerful alternator. I like that I can toss off my seatbelt when on rough roads and it doesn't scream at me. Air down without alerts. Oversize tire no complaints. I like the smaller size, shorter wheelbase. I know eventually good things must come to an end. I have 151k on it. How are those newer computers working, are the computers working well with modifications? Oversize tires, air downed tires, other changes. I've been a bit leery of the fancier computers, so feedback?

More tech for sure on new trucks. Does it open it up for more problems? Perhaps. But software issues typically aren't as difficult, expensive or intrusive to diagnose or rectify. Not like rust issues, engine/drivetrain or other hardware problems. Besides, if you're looking to trade off a truck with 150k miles on it, any new truck, loaded to the hilt will do you just fine.

If you're really worried, just buy a tow rig and get a RZR or dirt bikes. Simpler machines.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Great little trucks, but get strained real quick if you try to really work 'em.

That's been the argument about them since the 1960s. "Damn fine little truck to drive but just can't deal with work like my 1 ton dually could." Well no kidding, it's a little light duty truck, not a Cruiser or Hino. I mean, seriously, if the dealership paper sheet didn't have GVWR numbers would you still think your little truck hasn't just taken its fair share of beating for 300,000 miles? Sheesh.

 

[Clutch]

Just thinking about this, too. It's a spectrum. What we call trucks, even "real" ones like the Hilux are cars compared against a L170 International or something. But damned if I'd want to drive something like that even just from the farm to town, much less for a couple of hundred miles of washboard roads. So car/truck/whatever, I dunno. They're all cars with different features I guess.

It is all about a spectrum. They are simply vehicles with different body configurations.

The whole what is real or not, is just opinion.

What would be cool, speaking of modern vehicles. If the fuel cell, electric, what have you... ever takes off. Would be cool to have different bodies that could be exchanged on the same platform.

"Real" truck motors are electric.

http://www.atlismotorvehicles.com/xp-platform/

 

[DaveInDenver]

 

[Clutch]

If you're really worried, just buy a tow rig and get a RZR or dirt bikes. Simpler machines.

To an extent. SXS's are fuel injected, CVT trannies, a lot with nav systems. No air bags...but I see it coming when people get tired of eating each other's dust and they all go to climate controlled enclosed cabs.

You can even get a fuel injected electric start 2-Stroke dirt bike now. No longer have to mix fuel or jet carburetors. Even my Beta is oil injection, and it is great! I don't mind mixing fuel, but not having to...isn't all that bad, actually quite nice. Bike runs cleaner and uses less premix too.

https://www.betausa.com/content/300-rr-2-stroke-1

Next bike will be full on injected, they weren't out yet when I bought the Beta.

https://www.husqvarna-motorcycles.com/enduro/2-stroke/te-300i/

 

[DaveInDenver]

LOL, about bikes. I saw that Kawasaki finally axed the KLR for 2019. Long live the carb.