How often do you really use your winch?

[cruiser guy]

Pulling the sparkplugs or glowplugs makes it spin better and you'll want to do that anyway once the rig is on its feet again. .

This can be a bit of a problem when the rig is upside down!! Opening the hood is not too easy

In Nick's case I can't really see how we'd have been able to pull the glow plugs or injectors.

 

[madizell]

http://www.wyeth-scott.com/

Looks like a good come-along and a solid "plan B." Because the working length of a drum take up puller is limited, you will also need cable or extensions to use to reach from vehicle to anchor point to use in conjunction with the puller, which looks like it might have a pull length of around 6 feet using the block. Don't use dynamic straps for this purpose as you will use up most of the puller's working length taking stretch out of the strap. Winch extensions work well, or some form of rope or cable extension, but it would be well to carry varying lengths because of the limited working length of the puller. Even a good length of high strength logging chain will help in setting up odd length pulls.

Not criticizing, just trying to think ahead.

Also, not that I am a fan of the Black Rat style puller, but I believe it is a windlass style or creeper device that does not spool cable as it goes, so you can set it most anywhere along its cable length and pull away. This would make set up easier, as you would have only one cable to work with, just like a winch. I have not used one, but have watched them in use. They are labor intensive. I am to old at this point to make much use of one for any length of time, especially in high heat, but either device will serve as a usable second line defense.

 

[lowenbrau]

This can be a bit of a problem when the rig is upside down!! Opening the hood is not too easy

In Nick's case I can't really see how we'd have been able to pull the glow plugs or injectors.

Exactly. The easiest thing was to walk out and get a recovery vehicle. It would have been easier to simply call a tow truck (assuming one could get there and you had cell coverage) But if you were many hours from help, you'd have dug under the rig to get the hood open if required. (Nick's is a bad example because of the auto transmission. You have been screwed anyway)

If you could block the intake though, the engine will spin quite fast. It just makes vacuum on the intake stroke and has nothing to compress. Again, far from ideal but better than dieing in an abandoned bus.

This is fodder for another thread, I'm sure, but if you wanted the ultimate winch, you might weld the drums of a PTO and and Warn 8274 together. You'd get all the convenience of the electric and the pull-forever-though-muskeg ability of the PTO.

 

[SeaRubi]

Looks like a good come-along and a solid "plan B." Because the working length of a drum take up puller is limited, you will also need cable or extensions to use to reach from vehicle to anchor point to use in conjunction with the puller, which looks like it might have a pull length of around 6 feet using the block. Don't use dynamic straps for this purpose as you will use up most of the puller's working length taking stretch out of the strap. Winch extensions work well, or some form of rope or cable extension, but it would be well to carry varying lengths because of the limited working length of the puller. Even a good length of high strength logging chain will help in setting up odd length pulls.

Not criticizing, just trying to think ahead.

Also, not that I am a fan of the Black Rat style puller, but I believe it is a windlass style or creeper device that does not spool cable as it goes, so you can set it most anywhere along its cable length and pull away. This would make set up easier, as you would have only one cable to work with, just like a winch. I have not used one, but have watched them in use. They are labor intensive. I am to old at this point to make much use of one for any length of time, especially in high heat, but either device will serve as a usable second line defense.

yep yep - agreed.

The wyeth-scott puller's base model actually comes with 20 feet of wire rope, which is still a long pull when all you got is your back. They can be ordered with up to 35' of line, if desired. edit: so 20'/2 on the pulley leaves you with 10 feet of pull before re-rigging. /edit. I have a 50 foot synthetic extension I use in the middle anyhow to connect back to the vehicle. Over the years I've tried various knots to be able to choke the rope down with limited success, until I started learning to sail. Now that I know a few more tricks with rope I've been curious to try choking the rope down differently next time I have a situation / excuse to play with the rigging. In most cases it's out with the XD9000

A huge advantage to these smaller pullers as well is that the risk to injury from a flying handle is significantly reduced. The handle itself is a short, hollow piece of aluminum that's designed to deform at it's safety limit. Since the load is being held by the pawls there's virtually no chance of the handle biting you under load. Also, unlike most pullers, these have some good numbers on both hoisting and pulling. Hoisting / dead-lift is rated at 4,000 lbs and pulling is rated at 8,000 lbs.

while I'm at it, might as well mention that the reader should always be attaching any kind of hook throat down and on the pin of your shackle. The bow part of the shackle is best kept for the loops on the end of your straps. I have a variety of both closed and open links as well to jerry rig stuff together, which has come in handy.

sorry to keep rambling - as you might be able to tell, recovery is one of my favorite parts of off-roading. I always enjoy a good recovery and sieze any excuse or opportunity to pull out the hi-lift. i'm just kind of demented this way i guess.


fwiw.

 

[BigAl]

It would have been easier to simply call a tow truck (assuming one could get there and you had cell coverage)

I've heard of some wopper charges for off road towing. Those bills make a winch seem like a bargain.

 

[cruiser guy]

Exactly. The easiest thing was to walk out and get a recovery vehicle. It would have been easier to simply call a tow truck (assuming one could get there and you had cell coverage) But if you were many hours from help, you'd have dug under the rig to get the hood open if required. (Nick's is a bad example because of the auto transmission. You have been screwed anyway).

We had to hike about 5-6 kms just to get cell coverage (it was really spotty before then). We were about 13kms up a spur road in the Kootenays probably an hour or so from Cranbrook and we were not where we thought we were either . We had left the house at about 7:00 in the evening and got back at about 3:00 AM. One of Nick's friends found us about 1 km up the spur at about 2 - 2:30 AM!! It was a hell of a hike for someone (me) waiting for open heart surgery and with a screwed up hip (I've since had it all fixed but it was a painful slow hike!!).

An auto tranny is not my choice of tranny. I have yet to see where an auto outperforms a stick (OK maybe in grannies car but other than that, no!!).

 

[jh504]

We had to hike about 5-6 kms just to get cell coverage (it was really spotty before then). We were about 13kms up a spur road in the Kootenays probably an hour or so from Cranbrook and we were not where we thought we were either . We had left the house at about 7:00 in the evening and got back at about 3:00 AM. One of Nick's friends found us about 1 km up the spur at about 2 - 2:30 AM!! It was a hell of a hike for someone (me) waiting for open heart surgery and with a screwed up hip (I've since had it all fixed but it was a painful slow hike!!).

An auto tranny is not my choice of tranny. I have yet to see where an auto outperforms a stick (OK maybe in grannies car but other than that, no!!).

I guess this if for another thread but having wheeled standards for so long I love my auto XJ. It is awsome on the rocks. If you have your gearing right I would rather have an auto.

 

[xcmountain80]

I've heard of some wopper charges for off road towing. Those bills make a winch seem like a bargain.

Yep they typically exceed the cost of a winch and get closer to heal thcare costs.


Aaron

 

[762X39]

The typical off pavement recovery is about $3600 and don't think for a moment that the recovery company doesn't earn every penny.I'll try to find the link to stories from a company that does them all the time and why it costs what it does.Suddenly a winch, dual batteries and an upgraded alternator are not very expensive.As a backup though, a Jackall, blocks, tirfor etc are still a good idea.

 

[AndrewP]

No doubt the offroad recovery business is tough, but there is a predatory aspect to it as well. There are guys that hang out on busy weekends at the top of Cadillac Hill (the end of the Rubicon) with offroad tow trucks, just waiting to be called down to recover someone to Tahoe. I have no idea what it costs, but given the fact they are willing to give up their time to sit there and wait for it tells me it's pretty profitable.

 

[I Leak Oil]

I can't understand why someone would take a multi-thousand dollar vehicle into a remote area, get it stuck, call an offroad tow service than complain about how much it costs. What's the saying? If you can't pay don't play. It's one of the risks we take and cheaper than leaving the vehicle there for good.
Jason T.

 

[durango_60]

No doubt the offroad recovery business is tough, but there is a predatory aspect to it as well. There are guys that hang out on busy weekends at the top of Cadillac Hill (the end of the Rubicon) with offroad tow trucks, just waiting to be called down to recover someone to Tahoe. I have no idea what it costs, but given the fact they are willing to give up their time to sit there and wait for it tells me it's pretty profitable.

Find me a business that isn't predatory by your definition. You see a need, you place yourself in a position to fulfill said need for a profit, I don't see an issue. Sounds exactly why I sit in my office day after day.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Find me a business that isn't predatory by your definition. You see a need, you place yourself in a position to fulfill said need for a profit, I don't see an issue. Sounds exactly why I sit in my office day after day.

i agree with that, i think offroad recovery is a risky, often inconsistant type of business. I see how that could drive up prices.


back to the original post though.


driving thru "the rubicon" or "dusy" or thru a comptitive winch course or whatever specific driving trails people have mentioned, that are driven with the purpose of "testing" yourself or your vehicles limits-winch required: yes

(these types of trails are often measured in yards or feet per hour as far as progress...i.e. the dusy is like 30 miles long and takes like 3 or 4 days to drive)

most other driving scenario's where you are wisely driving with at least one partner on a trail system/overland route within your vehicles capability to reach a destination or camping spots along the way: -winch required: nope

(these types of trips are charactorized with logistical problems such as ability to carry enough food/water/fuel to get to said destinations, where the terrain challenge may be high, but its due to long stretches of backcountry, not drivetrain eating boulders)

the only admission i'll make is to the type of overland driving that takes you through such specific terrain as to warrant a winch as a daily use tool. for example, driving in south american rain-forests, as a buddy of mine did. He would have to slog through miles of mud/roots,etc to get to his archeological base camp. So, the trucks had swampers, lockers, and winches as standard equipment. Do i need swampers, lockers and winches to explore the socal desert? no.

if SWR can do what he does with a stock 4runner, why does my Jeep or your Land rover need it? Both being as capable, if not more(in some people's opinion)?

(no-offense SWR, i felt like we we're pretty well matched on the coyote canyon trip)

 

[BigAl]

No doubt the offroad recovery business is tough, but there is a predatory aspect to it as well. There are guys that hang out on busy weekends at the top of Cadillac Hill (the end of the Rubicon) with offroad tow trucks, just waiting to be called down to recover someone to Tahoe. I have no idea what it costs, but given the fact they are willing to give up their time to sit there and wait for it tells me it's pretty profitable.

Hmm... hang in the mountains all day with no other responsibility other than waiting to tow someone... and get paid for it. Anybody know if they're hiring?:bike_rider:

 

[Zorro]

It wasn't an unsignificant expense ... 1000$ isn't cheap.

I don't use it often.

However, the peace of mind that comes with having a winch is amazing.
Greasy downhill that I may have to go back up? Not a concern. Wheeling buddy gets stuck? Not a concern. Dangerous looking puddle? Not a concern.

Just last week, I went up north alone, and without a winch I wouldn't have gone down a tricky trail ... too steep and slippery to climb back up. I went down, and enjoyed a great lunch on a deserted beach by the lake. I eventually made it back up without assistance, but without the insurance of the winch, I wouldn't have gone there in the first place.

Mind you, we do have lots of woods and trees to grab onto around here.