Identify Your Enemies - How are Enviro/Eco Groups Funded?

[Todd Ockert]

How about we put our nickels together and get Jonathon a BRC membership?...

I like that!
I will even throw in two nickles for the cause!

Todd

 

[calicamper]

Wish it was that simple. The big money is not coming from people who actually get out and recreate in the countryside. The folks who see and are rightfully offended by the way the mouth breathers trash the wild.

The funding comes from foundations and corporations. I'd bet the feet of the decision makers rarely leave the pavement.

What most people don't realize is that there are lots of very wealthy families that allocate X amount a year to foundations that then doll out the funds based on a certain framework etc. Talking big money not just your random person who gets a wild burr and donates 100k to a cause. This is done with many different types of things Human Rights, food for poor countries etc. The major donors route the money through foundations that serve to protect the identity of the funding source. For obvious reasons people with lots of money may want their donations kept on the down low given there is always a group that won't like how your spending your money etc.

The big threat to the 4x4 groups and access to land ie trails and such is very simple you get people trashing watersheds and tearing stuff up and you loose access. Simple as that.

 

[MrWesson]

Using the word Libtard can't help you gain any traction in becoming credible either.

Identifying and knowing your enemy are two different things. If you want dialogue then i'd suggest losing the extremist attitude towards the them.

FWIW I'm not a liberal.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Using the word Libtard can't help you gain any traction in becoming credible either.
.

Amazingly, such rhetoric persists, yet people wonder why they don't get their way. If you project a sense of diametric opposition on everyone that doesn't follow your exact line of thinking, you will quickly find yourself always put on your butt and losing. If on the other hand, you reach across the table further than the arm on the other side, you almost always get more of said table.

Even the title of this thread speaks to the nature of a losing mentality. Evoking the word "enemies" is a recipe for failed ambitions, not just in land use issues, but in general. Tie this into the other thread in this section on the "Mountain bike invasion" and I begin to see why 4x4 access struggles to win the smallest battles when the mtb audience gets damn near everything they set in their sights. It's a totally different mentality.

 

[jeepndel]

What most people don't realize is that there are lots of very wealthy families that allocate X amount a year to foundations that then doll out the funds based on a certain framework etc. Talking big money not just your random person who gets a wild burr and donates 100k to a cause. This is done with many different types of things Human Rights, food for poor countries etc. The major donors route the money through foundations that serve to protect the identity of the funding source. For obvious reasons people with lots of money may want their donations kept on the down low given there is always a group that won't like how your spending your money etc.

You certainly make a salient point there, calicamper. At BRC we respect that fully and ensure our non-profit status is protected within IRS rules, yet allows for donation anonymity when requested. It works. You can have both. You can support something like access to trails and adventures nationwide (BRC), and protection from unnecessary "advertising" of your support.

Also, I will share this: in my 50 years of backcountry exploring and adventuring, I have found NOTHING more important than educating those who also enjoy off-pavement excitement. That is what BRC (http://www.BlueRibbonCoalition.Org) is all about, really -- education that enables folks to have fun and do it right while keeping our access alive and well. And BRC represents mtn. bikers too! In fact, we are all sports and all trails. Do I wish the "mouth-breathers" would get the message and stop trashing our trails? Of course. Will we ever be rid of them all? No. Will all mountain bikers or Wilderness hikers stop leaving their granola bar wrappers on the trail? No. Most all will, of course. But in our society, we must never stop educating fellow users and setting the example -- of the right way. We do that in BRC.

 

[agavelvr]

If your not a member of a Land Use organization, why not?

You might want to fix that, being the president and all. Otherwise one of the answers migh be "lack of grammar and spelling skills". That stuff is big here on Expo, perhaps more so than actually traveling and wheeling

 

[Herbie]

Amazingly, such rhetoric persists, yet people wonder why they don't get their way. If you project a sense of diametric opposition on everyone that doesn't follow your exact line of thinking, you will quickly find yourself always put on your butt and losing. If on the other hand, you reach across the table further than the arm on the other side, you almost always get more of said table.

Even the title of this thread speaks to the nature of a losing mentality. Evoking the word "enemies" is a recipe for failed ambitions, not just in land use issues, but in general. Tie this into the other thread in this section on the "Mountain bike invasion" and I begin to see why 4x4 access struggles to win the smallest battles when the mtb audience gets damn near everything they set in their sights. It's a totally different mentality.

Well said Christophe. As someone who straddles a lot of "battle lines", politically and philosophically, I find it very difficult to be diligent about exploring all sides of a discussion once certain kinds of rhetoric are deployed.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Well said Christophe. As someone who straddles a lot of "battle lines", politically and philosophically, I find it very difficult to be diligent about exploring all sides of a discussion once certain kinds of rhetoric are deployed.

Exactly. Here's another enlightening takeaway from just this thread:

"Will all mountain bikers or Wilderness hikers stop leaving their granola bar wrappers on the trail?" - Del, BRC I use that quote not to pick on Del, but as an example of undermining rhetoric that can erode a cause. Even in jest.

Now, this candy coated cherry bomb may seem innocuous, but it's quips like this that do more to describe the position of an organization more than any mission statement ever could. It's clear Del thinks the human-powered segment is worthy of such pejorative accusations like, discarded "granola" wrappers. Granola? Really?

Not only do such offenses rarely persist, do they really hold a candle to the damaging offenses perpetuated by other user groups. Not by a mile.

This is all part of the "us vs. them" mentality that...just...does...not...work.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

The granola wrapper line was kinda funny. I took it as a lighthearted jab.

 

[PirateMcGee]

This is all part of the "us vs. them" mentality that...just...does...not...work.

Bingo.

 

[Christophe Noel]

The granola wrapper line was kinda funny. I took it as a lighthearted jab.

I got that it was a witty quip, but jabs like those often have substance. Maybe Del truly thinks all human-powered backcountry travelers eat granola bars and hug trees. Not trying to read more into this than necessary, but again, it speaks to the us vs. them mentality. I hug trees. I also burn a lot of gas having fun. Am I on the inside or outside of Del's ideal circle?

Within the scope of the main topic here, as soon as you engage in that us vs. them ethos, conjure up the word "enemies," and poke your opponents with witty barbs, your cause begins to sound victimized. Call it defense/offense, protagonistic/antagonistic, or whatever. Drafting a message, drumming up support for it, and then selling it, is not easy by any means and little things like the above erode effectiveness.

Years ago when we were selecting a mouthpiece to represent our local land use organization someone said, "I nominate Joe, he's one manipulative sonovabich." Everyone's response, "Perfect."

 

[goodtimes]

And BRC represents mtn. bikers too! In fact, we are all sports and all trails. Do I wish the "mouth-breathers" would get the message and stop trashing our trails? Of course. Will we ever be rid of them all? No. Will all mountain bikers or Wilderness hikers stop leaving their granola bar wrappers on the trail? No. Most all will, of course. But in our society, we must never stop educating fellow users and setting the example -- of the right way. We do that in BRC.

Belittling user groups (which you purport to represent) by calling them "mouth-breathers" & "granola munchers" sets one heck of an example.

Oh well, at least we know how the BRC really feels about hikers & mountain bikers.

 

[jeepndel]

Belittling user groups (which you purport to represent) by calling them "mouth-breathers" & "granola munchers" sets one heck of an example.

Oh well, at least we know how the BRC really feels about hikers & mountain bikers.

goodtimes, seriously? You are a Moderator here and you are not ensuring "in context" arguments and replies? It was not me who started the "mouth breather" comment about off-roaders who trash our environment or who portray bad behavior. My entire KEY point was for all of us to continue to educate fellow users of public lands; that we must be vigilant in our conservation education efforts. For goodness sakes, let's stay in context unless you have a prejudice you just can't get past. In the "About You" part of your public profile here you describe yourself as "smarter than a bag of hammers -- but not by much." Would you feel good about someone taking that out of context and calling you a hammer-head?

 

[Rockhounder]

over the new year, we went to afton canyon area and drove around the southeast side to get back to a point where there is spectacular angel wing and button plume agate. as the crow flies, it's only about 3 miles south/southeast, but to drive there on blm trails you have to go on a 30 mile round loop and come at it from the east.

Had a great time collecting, and the rest of the group went home, we stayed behind to enjoy the scenery. along comes a group of hikers, we talk, and share greetings. everything is fine until the topic turns to low long they have been out there, and how many hours/days their trip. A thinly veiled snide remark to us from one of them about how "nice' it must be to be able to just drive up to where they toiled for a day to get to. (the last parts are definitely partial rock crawling type of driving to cross washed out and disappeared trails.)

I think that part of the problem with the self-powered style of back country exploration is that is is certainly frustrating to work all day to get somewhere, then get to that remote goal, only to see a family with kids, enjoying ice cold treats out of their onboard solar powered fridge...... while they have just a half liter of warm water to see them all the way back down. (we gave them some frozen oranges, and refilled their water which they were thankful for, and they were a nice group) but you could see the envy on some of their faces.

This may be some of the rub that the "green" movement has, with their preferred mode of enjoyment, and viewing those of us who chose other more capable forms of overland travel as somehow "cheating'....... I have never personally met any of the dreaded "militant" types on the trail thankfully, but have encountered them in Barstow (often, for some reason) while we were shopping for supplies. Sucks to be having a fun family time, and have a carload of REI outfitted types in a hybrid honda civic pull up next to us, and have them call us names (bad words) and how we are destroying the environment and ruining the landscape for them. I tried to explain how we are mineral explorer types, and we are miles different from all the yahoos who show up on the weekends with their huge fifth wheels, full of Funco's and Polaris' and dune buggies, who go and tear up the hillsides while swigging beer and partying....

I said the places we go, you don't have to worry about seeing us at all, because often we are 20 miles further out in the wilderness than they would ever get in that econobox, or by hiking...... that just got them mad

 

[MagicMtnDan]

Hikers hike, bikers bike and wheelers...well, we wheel.

We all can share the same surroundings but when people lose patience with others Mother Nature seems to take a back seat to hard feelings and vented anger.

I've been out in Death Valley many times. And in all those times I've only seen one true hiker (no vehicle anywhere in site). We tried talking to her and offering her water, etc. but she didn't make eye contact and kept on going. Something about being out in DV by yourself (and being a woman) may have led her to keep her distance.

The point is the world belongs to all of us. Many take care of it; some do not. Most don't get off the beaten track; some do. How we get there shouldn't matter as long as we take care of it.

PS: I shop at REI and I'm not "an outfitted type in a hybrid Honda" :bike_rider: