In Response to the Congo Thread: A Technical Discussion

[bobDog]

I just trimmed a bunch of ******** chat.

My point about talking and not doing is simply that I believe criticism should come from a position of experience. If someone has direct experience in the particular topic, then the criticism is useful, as it provides a different perspective based on relevant situations and learning. Unfortunately, with regards to the Congo thread, I am seeing a lot of criticism that lacks perspective, that lacks context, and in most cases, lacks experience.

Being "prepared" is a relative term, and one that can only be determined by the person actually traveling. Being "prepared" will also vary throughout a travelers lifetime and depending on the risks involved.

The world is not nearly as scary a place as most believe, and the world is certainly better developed and easier to travel in than most expect.

It is all about perspective, and each person has their own. . .

Oh, and do I drive like a maniac? It is all about perspective. . . :smiley_drive:

I understand this to be basically saying that you would like to micro manage this thread to operate within the bounds of your opinions as others w/o experience in the Congo or places like it simply can't understand what it is like.

 

[bobDog]

I agree. That is why I started this thread. Not to talk good OR bad about those who completed this, but what can we learn as a community through talking amongst ourselves.

So let me start....
Their story confirmed to me that a winch and lockers are invaluable when traveling alone on what is expected to be rough terrain. I am a stout believer that a good reliable locker will allow you to continue the drive even with a broken shaft. A winch for the obvious reason of not needing to go for a hike to get help.

So, that very quickly, is a few little things I walked away with. I ask, what lessons vehicle modifications can YOU the others readers of that thread walk away with. And again, I beg you keep it relevant to your rig and your lessons.

Been offroading since Colorado allowed me to drive a moto at 13 (times have changed) being 63 now I have had alot of experience w/ & w/o a winch. No winch means you will still most likely get out but hours later and with broken or stressed parts because you did things you knew you shouldn't just to get unstuck...such as smoke the clutch, smoke the tires etc. W/ a winch you will strain less stuff including you and your rider...you will get further even if the winch breaks partway thru and you and vehicle will be in much better shape to finish the drive. going solo (one 4x4) w/o a winch is just plain masochistic.

 

[Scott Brady]

I understand this to be basically saying that you would like to micro manage this thread to operate within the bounds of your opinions as others w/o experience in the Congo or places like it simply can't understand what it is like.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the only posts I removed was the chat. It made it impossible to engage in a reasonable stream of discourse.

As an important note, F&J did just complete a live interview, and the reason they did not install a winch and lockers was because of finances. They would rather have explored the world than have a fully outfitted Land Cruiser in their driveway at home - there is no reasonable argument against that.

 

[bobDog]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the only posts I removed was the chat. It made it impossible to engage in a reasonable stream of discourse.

As an important note, F&J did just complete a live interview, and the reason they did not install a winch and lockers was because of finances. They would rather have explored the world than have a fully outfitted Land Cruiser in their driveway at home - there is no reasonable argument against that.

I once put off going western Colo. a month once just so I could have a winch. I would think going 1/2 way around the world would be worth a months wait, but hey I guess if you like pain and suffering................

 

[Scott Brady]

...within the bounds of your opinions

Which of my opinions do you disagree with?

I can see you are quick to throw the first stone - but lets see what wit you can volley into the fray.

 

[Scott Brady]

but hey I guess if you like pain and suffering................

There are few rewards for the weak and timid.

 

[bobDog]

There are few rewards for the weak and timid.

I don't think that was the point, but I must say that even tho I didn't need the winch as it turned out and I had a wonderful trip for a month in late summer around most of the good trails and a few not so good tracks, I was rewarded w/ a sense of security that allowed me to go into places I would not have gone.:coffeedrink: Also in my book at least one locker is an absolute must.

 

[bobDog]

Which of my opinions do you disagree with?

I can see you are quick to throw the first stone - but lets see what wit you can volley into the fray.

All I was saying is it seems the mods including you seem to object to things that I find totally exceptable, whether its a few ******** chat jokes or just stating ones opinion once to many times. I rarely have seen the need for any censor or warnings in what I have read in these forum during my time here. It seems to me that as adults we are doing just fine w/o management.
Many folks, yourself included, here keep bringing up the thought that if you haven't done it you can't have a valid opinion about it.
I have had other experiences that I feel validate my opinions about F& J trip.
I won't mention them again .because I have already had one warning and don't wish to be out of the forum for 7 days as I like many other subjects here.

 

[ratkin]

Fit & Trim

I understand this to be basically saying that you would like to micro manage this thread to operate within the bounds of your opinions as others w/o experience in the Congo or places like it simply can't understand what it is like.

Truly, what he cut out was a total thread hi-jack that, as LaOutbackTrail succinctly put it, was intended to bring levity to the discussion to try to get folks to NOT take themselves too seriously. My post was one of those trimmed out, as it was about the judicious application of a wiffle ball bat, and absolutely was of no part of the actual discussion of the Congo, winches, etc.

- Richard

 

[DiploStrat]

I once put off going eastern Colo. a month once just so I could have a winch. I would think going 1/2 way around the world would be worth a months wait, but hey I guess if you like pain and suffering................

With deepest respect, driving across Africa is nothing like Colorado and driving around the world is nothing like going Jeeping for a weekend.

For many of us, the weight of a winch is going to do far more damage to the front suspension (and fuel mileage) than it will ever save in digging. Sand ladders, on the other hand, are infinitely useful. Similarly, there are lots of vehicles with better off road performance than the diesel Land Cruiser troop carrier and lots of tires that are better than 7.50x16 ten plies, but these are the world standard and since you can't carry all the spares you will need for two years, these are the best options for long range/long duration overlanding. Food, water, fuel, cooking, and sleeping are generally more important than rough road performance.

I would not presume to tell you about four wheeling in the US, but I would offer that Africa is a bit different.

 

[1leglance]

I am really looking forward to all the great trips reports that will be posted soon by all the people who seem to think they know better.
My rule is to try and lead by example, and in this case that would mean actually doing a trip like this.
So for all of you who love to rip on others, please let us know when you are leaving and when we can start enjoying your trips.

 

[DiploStrat]

I am really looking forward to all the great trips reports that will be posted soon by all the people who seem to think they know better.
My rule is to try and lead by example, and in this case that would mean actually doing a trip like this.
So for all of you who love to rip on others, please let us know when you are leaving and when we can start enjoying your trips.

Touché

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

Well said, DiploStrat.

Well said, Lance.

 

[Scott Brady]

All I was saying is it seems the mods including you seem to object to things that I find totally exceptable

My trimmings were out of respect for the original poster, who made it pretty clear in his title that this was intended as a "technical discussion", posted in General Vehicle Modifications, not chat. . .

I thought the posts that were trimmer were funny, and I left them for some time - then it seemed appropriate to trim the chat and bring the discussion back to a technical one.

 

[rezdiver]

If you want to get technical regarding the merits of the winch, then yes, in their trip it would have been very handy. but the story seems to suggest that the only time that the winch would have been highly benificial was the point of the major climb with the broken rear end. every other time they had no issues getting themselves unstuck for the most part with what they had.

so based solely on the fact that if the rear end had not given up the winch wound not be a necessity. in fact, i would rather have had a new rear end tucked in the back of the truck instead of a winch.

it still would have been a pain in the *** to winch themselves through all that with the broken rear end and even with a winch they would still have needed assistance. plus using a winch on such a long haul could easily destroy the winch after the abuse it would have taken from just being mounted on the front through that terrain and exposure to the elements travelling halfway around the world.

another point the winch could have destroyed their battery supplies or their alternator when used in such a haul. then we would be saying they should have carried a second winch on the rear, or a second alternator, etc....or now we would be discussing which type of winch is best to have if it did break down; hydraulic, pto, electric...