4Run'nOnEmpty
Member
the b58 is an interference engine from what i've been told
INEOS Grenadier
- Thread starter Correus
- Start date
SkiWill
Well-known member
There are no firm dates at this time. From their website they say full pricing and orders open early 2023, so I guess that depends on your definition of "early." Deliveries maybe late 2023? Realistically, I don't expect to see these in the US or Canada before 2024, but that's just my opinion as an engineer in an unrelated field trying to work through a world of totally jacked up supply chains.
X-plorenow
Adventurer
I was just at talked to them at Overland Expo East this past weekend. You can reserve now for $450. You will get an email in Jan / Feb asking if you want to convert it to an actual order. Expectation is they will begin shipping in US in December of 2023.
Pricing for US is still not firm, but they referenced the price in the UK is about $79,000 GBP. While the exchange rate is about equal for USD currently they said expect a higher costs for export and shipping.
T-Willy
Well-known member
That converts to $87,600 USD before exporting and shipping costs. Bummer if true.
Herbie
Rendezvous Conspirator
Article from the Guardian on current supply chain issues for Ineos:
www.theguardian.com
Jim Ratcliffe’s attempt to rival Land Rover Defender racks up steep losses
Ineos Automotive’s plans for Grenadier 4x4 hit by global supply chain disruption
www.theguardian.com
ABBB
Well-known member
Isn’t the new Defender less expensive than that? And isn’t this supposed to be a ‘return to basics’ vehicle? In fairness, I don’t envy anyone attempting to start a specialized automobile company in this particular day and age, but the price being that far from earlier expectations, and that high, may condense the production life of the Ineos Grenadier to a few years as they’re pricing so many people out. Unless they get military contracts, it’s hard to fathom this kind of a niche product selling enough to stay in production.
Highlander
The Strong, Silent Type
$88K is a lot. You can build an amazing Ford / Ram / GM with that money.
It will be hard to draw customers from Jeep and Bronco.
It will be hard to draw customers from Jeep and Bronco.
Cayenne-958-TDI
Active member
Read the Guardian article on Ineos. Most major projects encounter scope creep and unforeseen issues that cause schedule delays and increased cost. Add in the supply chain issues, no wonder about their and our situation.
Two questions for North America -
- We did get to see and sit in one many months ago, will there be an opportunity to drive one prior to converting our pre-order into an order?
- Then for delivery, will a European delivery be an option? Other marques do this like Volvo, etc.
Two questions for North America -
- We did get to see and sit in one many months ago, will there be an opportunity to drive one prior to converting our pre-order into an order?
- Then for delivery, will a European delivery be an option? Other marques do this like Volvo, etc.
ChasingOurTrunks
Well-known member
I had to re-read that klahanie; at first I thought it said "you'd be hard to get one for less than $100k" but now I realize they mean the exact opposite; even fully belled-and-whistled, you won't hit $100k. I blame the lack of coffee this morning!
When I do a VERY quick build-and-price of it's competition for folks like us (The 4-Runner, the Ranger, the Gladiator), the Ranger comes out in the mid- to high- $60s with the tremor, but you'd need to spend another $3-$5k on a cap which would never be quite water and dustproof. The 4-Runner comes in at the low $70s as does the Gladiator (which would also need the cap treatment to make it comparable to the Gren for cargo protection, and it would never be quite as good as a proper wagon). I don't have time to do more but I've done this a few times, and it always makes the Grenadier seem more competitive for what we are getting for the money. None of the above vehicles have the same payload or towing capacity, for instance.
I'm not saying it's the same -- if "you'd be hard pressed to hit $100k" means that with all the options you are at $98k, then we're talking about over $30k difference, which is significant. But even built out to the max in terms of capability, the competition still doesn't quite match what the Grenadier is offering. For the right buyer (like me) that extra 500lbs payload, 700 lbs towing, and the wagon configuration is worth a bit of a premium over the others on the market. Maybe not a $30k premium in my case, but mine isn't spec'd that high and I am comfortable paying $10-$15k more for the Grenadiers capability over what I would get in a Jeep/4Runner/Mid-size truck.
I also think the Aftermarket will allow us to "up-spec" a Gren with things like racks, snorkels, bumpers, etc. for potentially a good bit less than one can get those same things from the Factory.
When I do a VERY quick build-and-price of it's competition for folks like us (The 4-Runner, the Ranger, the Gladiator), the Ranger comes out in the mid- to high- $60s with the tremor, but you'd need to spend another $3-$5k on a cap which would never be quite water and dustproof. The 4-Runner comes in at the low $70s as does the Gladiator (which would also need the cap treatment to make it comparable to the Gren for cargo protection, and it would never be quite as good as a proper wagon). I don't have time to do more but I've done this a few times, and it always makes the Grenadier seem more competitive for what we are getting for the money. None of the above vehicles have the same payload or towing capacity, for instance.
I'm not saying it's the same -- if "you'd be hard pressed to hit $100k" means that with all the options you are at $98k, then we're talking about over $30k difference, which is significant. But even built out to the max in terms of capability, the competition still doesn't quite match what the Grenadier is offering. For the right buyer (like me) that extra 500lbs payload, 700 lbs towing, and the wagon configuration is worth a bit of a premium over the others on the market. Maybe not a $30k premium in my case, but mine isn't spec'd that high and I am comfortable paying $10-$15k more for the Grenadiers capability over what I would get in a Jeep/4Runner/Mid-size truck.
I also think the Aftermarket will allow us to "up-spec" a Gren with things like racks, snorkels, bumpers, etc. for potentially a good bit less than one can get those same things from the Factory.
SkiWill
Well-known member
Of course they're wracking up huge losses. They're not delivering vehicles yet. It takes a lot of upfront capital to start a car company, which is why this is Jim Ratcliffe's project and not mine. If the costs get towards $100k USD, you'll never see these actually in the wild. It will become another G class. At $59k GBP or $65k USD for one with locking diffs is probably the upper end of what I would consider. Too many other options if this is more like $75k and up. Want payload and more space? Go domestic full size. The underdog: a Land Rover Defender which actually has more towing and payload (yikes!). Jeeps, Broncos, Lexus GX460, 4Runner, etc. all with proven aftermarket and dealer network support. I want this to succeed and be priced competitively, but I'm also not extremely optimistic that it will be. Also, I'll be incredibly impressed if they actually start shipping to North America in 2023. I have a project I'm managing and what should be a fairly common 8" valve was just quoted as a 36 week lead item for a stupid valve. Considering all the parts and supply chains that have to be established for the Grenadier, and there's no way 2023 is realistic.
ChasingOurTrunks
Well-known member
@SkiWill - not sure if you were responding to my post or not, but of note, klahanie and my post were discussing a price point of under $100,000 Canadian Dollars; in the exchange rate, that works out to being about $73,000 United States dollars, which is very competitive for the high end of the numbers you have posted given this was described as being a figure that one would be "hard pressed" to reach.
Fully agree with everything you said though; I just wanted to clarify that currency conversion as it can throw perceptions in the conversation off and I realized I didn't specify.
Fully agree with everything you said though; I just wanted to clarify that currency conversion as it can throw perceptions in the conversation off and I realized I didn't specify.
Timcampsallover
Tree top flyer
I’ll definitely be more confident when I get my slot at actually driving one! I’m hoping we get to test drive before the next deposit deadline.