bkg
Explorer
Why take the tundra calipers off? Usually that’s a great upgrade.
Is a Land Cruiser really better off-road than a Tacoma? My experience says the opposite..
- Thread starter Ozark_Prowler
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Ozark_Prowler
Active member
bkg
Explorer
I don’t think you’ll profit. You’ll need rotors as well. And then wheels and tires?
imho - put the 4.88s in and keep the current size tires and brake upgrades. Zero cost
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Ozark_Prowler
Active member
Ozark_Prowler
Active member
bkg
Explorer
Not really such a thing as axle spacers… per se. There are some IFS lifts (mostly Chevy and ford, IIRC) that put a small spacer between the inner cv and axle flange, but that’s really the only axle spacer I know of.
The spacers that you see on SAS rigs are just wheel spacers.
Buy a high quality set of 1.25” hub centric spacers, install them correctly, and you’ll never have an issue.
and it’ll be worth it verses (what most would call) downgrades you are considering.
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Ozark_Prowler
Active member
I know this is an old thread, but I keep thinking about this post since you're the only one I've heard saying that the front 7.5" clamshell and 1st gen CVs are so incredibly weak. People on Tacomaworld and elsewhere have said the stock front end actually takes a lot of abuse; plenty of them have beat the crap out of them on trails, hopping all over the place and still they hold up pretty well, some even on 37s.
I'm not sure what the issue is with the guys on your trips to be honest. Maybe it's the terrain at SH and Moab. As I said, there's fairly constant traction there. If you think about it, you're basically using your 4WD on pavement. In fact the sandstone out there has even more traction than a typical road. I'm thinking a full-time 4WD set up might hold up better out there, since they can probably handle a lot of obtsacles in AWD/lo, whereas the part-time Tacomas and 4runner would beed the center diff locked for most of the trails. Maybe they'd fare better with the rear diff locked in 2wd/hi until they got to a big challenge.
Finally, you also have the 80 series axles with the much lighter 4x series body. It would be interesting to see how a stock FZJ80 would perform in the same conditions, or even a part-time FJ60.
I mean, the 1st gen Taco front end might be weak compared to the 80 series, but you'd think it was a Honda Fit front end you're talking about from the above post. The 1G Taco/3G4R wouldn't be su h a popular platform if it was as weak as you're saying.
What gives?
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
This is usually how it goes.....most of them are running very mild lift and 35s with some trimming. Not overly heavy vehicles either.
-when pushing the front tire into anything too hard, they will pop the joint at the knuckle often. Also happens when the front end is wedged. This is what they look like after that happens.....I probably have pictures of a dozen broken front ends floating around.
-If the tires are pointed straight ahead, on a big climb any medium size bounce seems to take out the inner shaft. I think it was the short side pretty repeatably. If somehow the shaft doesn't pop, it usually takes out the ring gear....and they are all running 'stronger' 4.10 gears pretty much.
The solution for one of them was to install a later iron high pinion 8 diff center from a late model 4-runner. Custom alloy inner axles shafts. It popped a lot of CVs till he finally swallowed having a custom set of RCV shafts made for it.....both CVs and the shafts.
My #LX45 isn't that much of a lightweight. It is still 4500-5000lbs depending on how it is loaded for the trip. It's probably lighter than a loaded 80 series sure, but that is being pushed around by a 5.3LS V8 engine and has 40s hanging off the axles. I do have 300m axles front and rear. This last year I was able to shear off a set of alloy drive flange studs on one front corner ( with 4340 RCV drive flanges ).
I don't think AWD would help, at least if you want to go places. My #LX45 runs an AWD t-case, I know immediately on anything even medium-hard if I forget to lock the center diff. Once the front tires start to unload it just spins one of them and you don't go anywhere. Having to drive around a front end that breaks all the time kinda sucks.
It doesn't seem to be very popular for the stuff I do. It might work fine for mild wheeling, but as soon as you need two lockers....they start to have a issues. If the type of wheeling you do only requires one locker sometimes....then it might be ok.
Ozark_Prowler
Active member
I'd agree that these trucks aren't well-suited as heavy-duty rock crawlers (unless SAS'ed). As I said, the grippy sandstone at Moab may also be extra hard on the IFS. These trucks are at home in the woods on slick muddy narrow tracks. It's generally advised not to lock the front diffs on the IFS either, and 35s are pushing it as well. It's just a matter of knowing the limits of the vehicle.This is usually how it goes.....most of them are running very mild lift and 35s with some trimming. Not overly heavy vehicles either.
-when pushing the front tire into anything too hard, they will pop the joint at the knuckle often. Also happens when the front end is wedged. This is what they look like after that happens.....I probably have pictures of a dozen broken front ends floating around.
-If the tires are pointed straight ahead, on a big climb any medium size bounce seems to take out the inner shaft. I think it was the short side pretty repeatably. If somehow the shaft doesn't pop, it usually takes out the ring gear....and they are all running 'stronger' 4.10 gears pretty much.
The solution for one of them was to install a later iron high pinion 8 diff center from a late model 4-runner. Custom alloy inner axles shafts. It popped a lot of CVs till he finally swallowed having a custom set of RCV shafts made for it.....both CVs and the shafts.
My #LX45 isn't that much of a lightweight. It is still 4500-5000lbs depending on how it is loaded for the trip. It's probably lighter than a loaded 80 series sure, but that is being pushed around by a 5.3LS V8 engine and has 40s hanging off the axles. I do have 300m axles front and rear. This last year I was able to shear off a set of alloy drive flange studs on one front corner ( with 4340 RCV drive flanges ).
I don't think AWD would help, at least if you want to go places. My #LX45 runs an AWD t-case, I know immediately on anything even medium-hard if I forget to lock the center diff. Once the front tires start to unload it just spins one of them and you don't go anywhere. Having to drive around a front end that breaks all the time kinda sucks.
It doesn't seem to be very popular for the stuff I do. It might work fine for mild wheeling, but as soon as you need two lockers....they start to have a issues. If the type of wheeling you do only requires one locker sometimes....then it might be ok.
IMO a mild lift, skinny 33s, a rear locker and sliders is the sweet spot on these trucks. 35s and a locked front is pushing it. In fact it's usually advised not to lock the front at all on the 1G Tacos; they simply weren't engineered for it, let alone while pushing 35s.
Having said all that,, they're still pretty formidable in their own right. Here's a vid of several IFS Tacoma on 33s on the Rubicon: IFS Tacomas on the Rubicon. They guy in the red truck does break a CV in the exact way you described. But it's not like they were breaking down every 50 meters like you were implying. Is an 80 series more robust? Yes of course, but they're also a much bigger and heavier vehicle.
Anyway, it's not like the stock 80 series front end is indestructible either once you're on 35s+ and doing hardcore trails.. 8" diffs shatter, birfs break, hubs come apart, sector shafts bend, hell even the frames are known to crack around the steering box, and the front diffs can shear by the panhard (this was fixed on the 105 IIRC). In fact it's arguable whether stock for stock it's much stronger than the 3rd gen of Toyota IFS on the 2nd gen Tacomas and 120 series platforms..
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
I never said it was every 50 meters now....come on. What I will say is that it was happening multiple times, same vehicle, on larger trips. It wasn't always rock trails either. And these where not being driven by yahoo types....they where TRYING to keep them together and could not.
The 80 series chassis in contrast under my #LX45 project.....has been VERY reliable (shockingly so honestly). The only upgrades to the axles where RCV shafts, flanges, and the studs that hold on the drive flanges. I went YEARS on that combo over the same trails that where causing repeating failures on the IFS tacomas/4runners without issues (being pushed around by a 5.3LS V8 on 40" tires). I did finally manage to shear off the studs on one of the front drive flanges, though I think honestly that is just one of those weak links. I redesigned that a bit and had really good luck this last year.
Ozark_Prowler
Active member
Well regardless I think they really beefed up the IFS for the next gen of Tacoma. You are making me regret getting rid of the 80 series though. It just felt like kind of a boat anchor in the woods compared to the Tacoma, which is almost more like a SxS.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Yes, the next generation IFS is a bit better.....but that is in a lot larger vehicle.
I love the wheelbase and axle width on my #LX45 ( stock 80 series), with the pinched FJ45-esk pickup body ( doors parallel for a 56" wide cabin ), it's an amazing fit on the trail. An 80 series body does feel like it has a big booty, but unless your talking a regular cab Tacoma and no shell, it isn't THAT much larger.
