Ozark_Prowler
Active member
20k?? At that rate I'd just get the new Bronco, or look for a pristine garaged LC online. What'd you do, like a full frame-off restoration?
Is the FZJ80 worth it in today’s market?
- Thread starter Ozark_Prowler
- Start date
Almost, It adds up quick.
This is also counting new gears axles. All body stuff is Toyota as well as engine, trans and anything that will leave me stranded. hell. you price a fuel pump from Toyota?
Wow...new bronco for 20k? Damn, good thing I don't like them. I payed 30 for my Tacoma and haven't moded it yet. When I do I'm sure I can add in about 10k. That should put it about 40 invested?
Still less money than some of my desert trucks.
No reason to do anything half way.
This is also counting new gears axles. All body stuff is Toyota as well as engine, trans and anything that will leave me stranded. hell. you price a fuel pump from Toyota?
Wow...new bronco for 20k? Damn, good thing I don't like them. I payed 30 for my Tacoma and haven't moded it yet. When I do I'm sure I can add in about 10k. That should put it about 40 invested?
Still less money than some of my desert trucks.
No reason to do anything half way.
Arktikos
Explorer
Here's a good write up on the 1FZ-FE engine.
"..As for longevity, the 1FZ typically lasts well over 300,000 miles when basic care is given to the motor. I've often read reports of engines being tore
down with 300,000 miles and no major wear to the bottom end. 200,000 and higher mileage vehicles are extremely common and most of these
have had no major repairs..."
"..As for longevity, the 1FZ typically lasts well over 300,000 miles when basic care is given to the motor. I've often read reports of engines being tore
down with 300,000 miles and no major wear to the bottom end. 200,000 and higher mileage vehicles are extremely common and most of these
have had no major repairs..."
XJLI
Adventurer
Thats just more anecdotal information. I guess I'm being contrarian just for the hell of it, but there are plenty of Rover V8s out there with over 300k too.. and those motors are not known to be bulletproof. So you need to do the head gasket every 150k on a 1FZ, but once every 80-90k on a Rover V8. It's just "maintenance" right? A better marker for reliability (in that era) would be a Chevy Vortec/Gen II small block V8s. Or the Ford or Jeep straight sixes. All those motors will go just as long as the Toyota, with less maintenance. I'd firmly wager a Jeep 4.0 over a 1FZ for not just longevity when maintained but for the ability to handle just straight up abuse.
I really DO love LCs. I almost bought an 80 (two different times), have wanted a 100 since they came out, and love the last facelift 200s. When I was shopping around two years ago, finding a great deal on a 06-07 wasn't that hard but in the end I couldn't DD something that got 14 mpg. And 200s were out of my price range. If I could afford a daily driver and a kitted out 200 that's what I'd probably have right now instead of my LR4.
Ozark_Prowler
Active member
I was thinking about this earlier. Speaking as a Toyota fan, here's plenty of Suburbans with the 5.3l Vortec still going strong with over 300k with no major repairs and no one really cares, but when the LC does it, everyone's in awe it made it that far on the original top end. And everyone gushes about how strong the driveline is, but how is it any better than an F250 of the same era with the 7.3 diesel or 7.5 big block, not to mention the 12v Cummins mentioned earlier?
And then whenever the Toyota breaks, it's "just maintenance." When a Chevy, Ford, or Nissan breaks, it because it's a piece of junk.
On the other hand, I really do think the 1fz is a good solid 90s engine which can go the distance if taken care of and kept cool. And the HG thing is overblown IMO; the forums make it seem like a bigger issue than it really is since people generally only post there when they have a problem. In reality the 80 series will put up with neglect better than 99% of its contemporaries. And it does blow, 3500 for a top end rebuild isn't the end of the world. At least it isn't like a 3.slow that blows them every oil change.
I have no reason to doubt the quote @Arktikos posted. That seems to be the consensus that 300k+ is no mean feat for an 80. Some of them even still go for $15k at that mileage.
XJLI
Adventurer
LCs will always run forever, because since the 80 came out LCs have been expensive and (since the early 2000s) are also less competitive than their contemporary competitors in all nearly every category... luxury, tech, ride quality, power, etc. For that reason, the big wagon LCs have only been bought new by enthusiasts who value the badge and the build quality Toyota puts into the truck. The owners love the trucks, and they are usually maintained meticulously. And when they to get sold, they got sold to enthusiasts who do the same. This is way different than a typical Range Rover/Escalade/Denali owner who is swapping for a new one every two years because they want the new new.
There are a lot of vehicles on the road that are complete junk, even when they were new. However, most aren't. It will always be my opinion that if you maintain and take care of any vehicle according to the service guidelines written out by the manufacturer that the car will have a long and reliable life. It just so happens that nearly every LC/LX on the road sees this maintenance from new.
There are a lot of vehicles on the road that are complete junk, even when they were new. However, most aren't. It will always be my opinion that if you maintain and take care of any vehicle according to the service guidelines written out by the manufacturer that the car will have a long and reliable life. It just so happens that nearly every LC/LX on the road sees this maintenance from new.
Ozark_Prowler
Active member
A lot of 80s got abused and neglected when they tanked in value in the Obama era though. The PO of mine just did an occasional quick lube oil change and let everything else just pile up.
lugueto
Adventurer
Totally. It adds up SUPER quick. "While you're there" repairs are crazy expensive.
As mentioned earlier, anything is reliable with enough money and upkeep! The ultimate question is how often you have to ground the vehicle and perform maintenance/repairs to get that sense of reliablity. Less often, more reliable. But not performing maintenance is negligence and no vehicle no matter what brand or model will handle continued negligence.
Another factor that helps with that sense of reliability is the ability to limp home, be it without repairing a failure or doing field repairs. Toyotas, in their simplicity (ie. lack of luxury, tech, ride quality and power as explained by XJLI in his post) helps in that matter.
Ozark_Prowler
Active member
I know a lot of forums go crazy over "baselining" and PM, but I'm not convinced it's a requirement to dump thousands of dollars into a tough older 4x4 like the 80 series.
Keeping an eye on temps and topping it off with reasonably fresh fluids will go a long way.
I know it's a cliche, but they really were designed for rudimentary maintenance in less developed parts of the world. They aren't finely tuned hypercars, in other words.
Keeping an eye on temps and topping it off with reasonably fresh fluids will go a long way.
I know it's a cliche, but they really were designed for rudimentary maintenance in less developed parts of the world. They aren't finely tuned hypercars, in other words.
XJLI
Adventurer
The whole "Its worth it because it's a Land Cruiser !!" thing on forums like ih8mud is pretty crazy to me. I get that these rigs are becoming collectible now and going up in value, but the insane baselining and OEM-only repair parts has been going on since way before that. And the big money repair bills attached to high mileage examples is what keep (kept?) the values up on high mile examples.. IMO.
On the other hand, if you're spending 5 year old, 65k mile used truck money on a 20 year old, 250k mile truck that's essentially been rebuilt once, or even twice.. you can have high confidence in it lasting you longer than a typical used truck. Still, things wear out that make for a worn out driving experience that don't get replaced bc they won't strand you. Like seats, body mounts, other touch points, etc. Not to mention rust, but that's an obvious one.
nickw
Adventurer
I think you are right when 'enthusiasts' get their hands on them....but honestly think that the majority of them are not owned by enthusiasts, particularly when the 80's first came out since there were seen as kinda soft rigs and not "real" Cruisers, PM stacks up....since they handle abuse SO well, people just stopped doing it and they keep running....I think that is the true secrete to cruiser longevity folklore. That and they are a HD equivalent to what we see with domestic SUV's which are for the most part light duty. If properly maintained, I honestly don't think they are any more or less reliable than HD domestic pickup from a sim era.
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nickw
Adventurer
100%
It would take a LOT of convincing from somebody to show me how a 90's Ford 3/4t with manual trans + 7.3 diesel or 4.9 six with Dana 60's axles or a Dodge equiv with a 5.9 cummins would in any way be inferior. I think the reality is those pickup examples were used by logging companies and got beat to death whereas most cruisers domestically lead a fairly easy posh bougie life.
I have a buddy with a RR Classic with 160k+ miles, runs perfectly, 0 issues outside a few annoying things electrically and the air bags. Feels about as tight and rides as good as any FJ80 of the same era that I've ridden in.
Arktikos
Explorer
Well, there's this too. https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/g35834918/top-vehicles-most-likely-to-reach-200000-miles/ My money is on the average LC to outlast the typical Jeep or Land Rover.
nickw
Adventurer
That kinda makes me question the data set and how far back it goes, are they including LC's from the 80's like the 60 series? I don't think I've personally seen a LC200 with over 200,000 miles on it, if they are out there, it's not many.
We know the Tundra has a very sim drivetrain to the LC200 but it gets ranked lower than the Tahoe, Suburban and a Expedition? Suburbans and Expedtitions also out-rank Tacoma's, which is odd.
I think you are right, especially when it comes to poor maintenance.
I see they excluded HD pickups - which is probably fair as the ones towing for a living go 500k and the ones used commercially get beat up / are operated in a stop and go environment all do so rarely make high miles.
Andrew Bluemel
New member
I think that there is no particular thing that makes the 80 series reliable, its all of it. Sure a Cummins from the same era probably will probably be less maintenance heavy and run longer, but hows the interior on that truck, how many rattles does it have? Sure the 4.0 in the Jeep is a fantastic motor, but how strong is the T-Case behind that? I have seen TJs break T-Cases on 31s.
I think the 80 series is magical because all of it is well assembled. Interior is tight as can be, the motors run forever if taken care of (and you can afford the gas), stout frame and axles with having the option of finding one with 3x lockers, pretty damn reliable electronics for being at this point over 20 years old.
I bought my cruiser when I was 14 and now I am 21. I have put 100,000 miles on my cruiser since then and besides doing PM that we all know they need, its been rock solid. I just threw a supercharger on it 15,000 miles ago (260,000 miles). I am not sure how many trucks can take a supercharger at 250,000 + miles but I think thats pretty incredible.
I think cruisers are in a weird spot because now they are at the point where everything rubber needs attention, and nowdays everyone wants to throw big tires on them, along with bumpers and all the other crap, and still go 80 down the speed limit. And it pisses people off when it can‘t fulfill all of that. For being at this point a classic car, I am not sure what other trucks can do it better then them. Sure they aren’t perfect and no I don’t daily mine anymore (I drive a Pruis everyday now), but the 80 will always be the Swiss army knife of trucks. It doesn’t do anything perfect, but it does a lot of things very very well.
I think the 80 series is magical because all of it is well assembled. Interior is tight as can be, the motors run forever if taken care of (and you can afford the gas), stout frame and axles with having the option of finding one with 3x lockers, pretty damn reliable electronics for being at this point over 20 years old.
I bought my cruiser when I was 14 and now I am 21. I have put 100,000 miles on my cruiser since then and besides doing PM that we all know they need, its been rock solid. I just threw a supercharger on it 15,000 miles ago (260,000 miles). I am not sure how many trucks can take a supercharger at 250,000 + miles but I think thats pretty incredible.
I think cruisers are in a weird spot because now they are at the point where everything rubber needs attention, and nowdays everyone wants to throw big tires on them, along with bumpers and all the other crap, and still go 80 down the speed limit. And it pisses people off when it can‘t fulfill all of that. For being at this point a classic car, I am not sure what other trucks can do it better then them. Sure they aren’t perfect and no I don’t daily mine anymore (I drive a Pruis everyday now), but the 80 will always be the Swiss army knife of trucks. It doesn’t do anything perfect, but it does a lot of things very very well.