JB1RDS B190 Build (it's gonna be slow) of Henry!!

[86scotty]

I have a 95 SMB with the same plumbing........I think. It's that gray and copper stuff. I was able to add and modify my plumbing with the Aquapex fittings and 1/2 pipe from Lowe's, pretty cheap and in yellow and white packaging near the Sharkbite stuff. I already had the special pliers from an Airstream rebuild though, so it was cheap for me.

That's pretty good MPGs for a 94 EFI 460. Better than my 95 Quigley 460 SMB without the big roof cap! I have a hiccup too BTW but only when using my rear tank so I'm pretty sure it's got crud in it. Routine maintenance parts for your van are dirt cheap so I would just do everything INCLUDING plug wires. I did when I got mine and it runs great, except for the rear tank thing.

Oh, there's a pretty cheap OBDI code reader with a thick book on Amazon for around $20. It has helped me a lot, much easier than counting dash lights. Let me know if you want the link.

Watching this thread with interest.......

 

[r_w]

I have a 94 (but a 351) and have a similar surge/stumble issue. I have tried all the cheap fixes, I think it is the TFI module on the distributor. Even hooked up to the Ford scanner, they couldn't find a code--just a random miss. Now I can tell it gets worse with heat.

Right now I am debating whether to buy a NAPA TFI module, a Ford rebuilt distro, or just swap out to a MSD (not much more than a Motorcraft rebuilt).

I have to figure it out soon, wanna go on vacation at some point.

 

[Jb1rd]

It's with the mechanic now so we shall see, hoping they are able to get it diagnosed. The shop works on Uhauls and has a lot of experience with these motors. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[lndhark]

I was going to chime in with EEC-IV module too. In my past life, I worked on waaay to many of these. Do yourself a favor though - establish a baseline. You'll want to know where you stand with this engine. If I were in your shoes, I'd replace the cap, rotor, wires, spark plugs, PCV valve, clean the throttle body, replace the fuel filter, air filter, breather filter (inside the airbox) and ensure the belt(s) are in good shape. Flush and fill the cooling system and inspect the radiator and heater hoses. Throw a thermostat in there too. You can't go wrong with Ford OEM parts either. They aren't outrageously expensive and you can often find them at Pep Boys. See if your mechanic will run a secondary check on the ignition coil too (not just a resistance check). I've seen flaky coils result in a miss, especially under load. On a related note, service the transmission. That era E4OD should still have a drain plug on the torque converter. Get all of the oil fluid out, flush the cooler, drop the pan and replace the filter. A lot of folks complain about the reliability of Ford trucks from this generation but if maintained correctly, they will last a good, long time.

That's a great find you've got! Enjoy it!

 

[Jb1rd]

Thanks Indhark, I will def run this by the mechanic when I talk to him in the morning, I was going to have the tranny flushed and serviced, totally forgot about the cooling system, and the gen tune up items are def on the list. I will ask him about the secondary coil check too. Before I bought it my uncle also told me that these old Fords are work horses and that Uhaul had used them for a reason, cuz they could take a beating.Thanks for everything. I'll report back when I get somewhere.

I was going to chime in with EEC-IV module too. In my past life, I worked on waaay to many of these. Do yourself a favor though - establish a baseline. You'll want to know where you stand with this engine. If I were in your shoes, I'd replace the cap, rotor, wires, spark plugs, PCV valve, clean the throttle body, replace the fuel filter, air filter, breather filter (inside the airbox) and ensure the belt(s) are in good shape. Flush and fill the cooling system and inspect the radiator and heater hoses. Throw a thermostat in there too. You can't go wrong with Ford OEM parts either. They aren't outrageously expensive and you can often find them at Pep Boys. See if your mechanic will run a secondary check on the ignition coil too (not just a resistance check). I've seen flaky coils result in a miss, especially under load. On a related note, service the transmission. That era E4OD should still have a drain plug on the torque converter. Get all of the oil fluid out, flush the cooler, drop the pan and replace the filter. A lot of folks complain about the reliability of Ford trucks from this generation but if maintained correctly, they will last a good, long time.

That's a great find you've got! Enjoy it!

 

[Jb1rd]

Have been reading a ton of stuff through god knows how many different forums but a theme keeps popping up, ECM, PCM, something called EEC IV, and PIP in the distributor. People are saying, a lot of them, that the PIP in the distributor is often at fault yet not changed out, not sure how that works when you are buying it from an auto parts store but it comes up quite a bit. Question is, would it be worth spending the money on an MSD, or is that more in the muscle car/high performance arena?

 

[Jb1rd]

Mechanic said he could not find anything other than the van needing a full tune up, he said it looked like it had all original equipment. He wants $536 to do it, he said it calls for 2.8 hours labor, so nearly $300 in labor, seems high so I figure I might as well dive in here and now and experience van frustration Going to try and wrangle my neighbor in for support and coaching.

 

[lndhark]

The PIP is the pick-up coil or what the ignition system uses to determine engine speed based off of the rotation of the distributor. This is a possibility but would require removing the distributor for testing. Sadly, not many shops do this anymore. You could look around for a performance/speed shop in your area that might still have the capability to test/curve distributors. EEC-IV is Ford-speak for Electronic Engine Control (version 4). It's the generalized name for the components used in the ignition and fuel engine system on your engine. PCM is the powertain control module. PCM's usually fail early on...at this point in the game, I'd say yours is fine. If anything, a PCM at this age would typically result in a no-start situation.

Jump in and do it yourself! It will be a great learning experience and think of how much more knowledge you'll have of your van! Use the list I gave you earlier and go shopping. Don't skimp on the parts! Good luck!

 

[r_w]

That sounds LOW for hours to work on a van. As you shall soon learn, grasshopper...

I was looking at an MSD because it is roughly the same price as a Motorcraft or less. I can't find an answer whether the "complete" motorcraft distributor includes the TFI module or cap/rotor. Or just how "plug and play" the MSD really is.

 

[Jb1rd]

I did jump in and well,it was shallow :Wow1: I got the better parts as you suggested and took my time with the distributor cap and plug location numbering them all and matching one for one, it was slow but I believe that I got them in order. I was able to get 5 of the 8 plugs out this afternoon but will have to tackle the drives side very front and passenger side front 2 tomorrow. Any suggestions/tips for removal would be great, it is a 94 E350 with the 460. I got the passenger side second from the front out but am having a bear of a time trying to get it back in, not sure I you even get to the very front ones. Thanks for all the input and I do feel successful even though I didn't finish today, I normally let my mechanically inclined brother and friends do this stuff :sombrero: It feels good to try.

 

[r_w]

You probably need every extension you have to reach the front two. A good flashlight and spotter (or mirror) help, too. Even the lifelong Ford mechanic complained how hard they were to get to.

 

[Jb1rd]

I did manage to get the plugs, wires, cap and rotor installed to no avail. So the hunt continues, the mech. said that there were no codes and the computer was reading/displaying communicating, whatever it does, so did not think it was ECM or PCM. After taking it out for a test drive after installing the new the plug and wires, here is what I noticed; the jerking, stuttering, hiccup, surge, whatever you want to call it is most noticeable between 30 and 45 mph with 40-5 seeming to be the worst. It does not do it under any acceleration load or when coasting only at cruising speed,if I had a tach I could tell exactly what rpm but think around 2200-400(?) At higher speeds 55-65 it is still present but faint, less abrupt. (this is all consistent with what it was like before the tune up) The same mech. suggested the EGR valve, but seemed clueless to anything else, are there no real mechanics any more, he said he was lost without his computer telling him what to do, and that the antiquated computer in my van might as well be nothing at all. I do not want to just throw money at maybes and what ifs, but I certainly would love some suggestions, and I will keep searching the net. I do feel a wee bit of pride and accomplishment that I did the project myself (physically anyway) and that the van still runs and there are no leftover parts :sombrero: Now for another cup of coffee and some more searching. Thanks for the help thus far.

 

[bdog1]

You can lift the EGR and slide something under it to block the port for free. I usually use a quarter. This should tell you if it's the valve. The EGR can cause a lean condition and might be consistent with your issue. Also check for possible vacuum leaks causing lean condition.

 

[lndhark]

Not to discount the EGR theory or the vacuum leak (you'd probably see that at idle as well) but what about the transmission? Sounds like maybe the torque converter clutch is hunting. If the EGR was causing a lean misfire, you'd probably hear some spark knock or a ping - the EEC-IV would probably see feedback from the A/F's and adjust the mixture accordingly.

Sorry I can't be of much help...this stuff is easier to figure out in person! Also, anyone that calls them self a mechanic yet relies on a computer for nuts a and bolts diagnosis is merely a parts changer. If the mechanic (ugh) said that the computer in the van isn't "anything at all" you might as well rip out the ECM, wiring, fuel pump, intake manifold and related hardware. Put an Edlebrock Performer on it and a Holley 4180 and your troubles will vanish (sarcasm).

 

[Jb1rd]

Funny you should mention the trans. I was hunting other forums and searches and torque converter, dirty/old fluid, comes up. I had tranny service on my list of "to do's" so will now make it a priority. Will they be able to tell me if it is a TC issue before changing fluid or do they need to change/flush the fluid first? Would hate to pay for a trans service only to have to do it again because of a bad TC or other tranny issue. FWIW there were no codes when he did use his computer, a 628 is excessive trans slippage if that helps anything.

Not to discount the EGR theory or the vacuum leak (you'd probably see that at idle as well) but what about the transmission? Sounds like maybe the torque converter clutch is hunting. If the EGR was causing a lean misfire, you'd probably hear some spark knock or a ping - the EEC-IV would probably see feedback from the A/F's and adjust the mixture accordingly.

Sorry I can't be of much help...this stuff is easier to figure out in person! Also, anyone that calls them self a mechanic yet relies on a computer for nuts a and bolts diagnosis is merely a parts changer. If the mechanic (ugh) said that the computer in the van isn't "anything at all" you might as well rip out the ECM, wiring, fuel pump, intake manifold and related hardware. Put an Edlebrock Performer on it and a Holley 4180 and your troubles will vanish (sarcasm).