Jeep Wrangler Habitat Official Release

[elcoyote]

Any decision to share yet on the interior finish of the hardtop?

Looking forward to pics of refined interim tent V2.1 and the next hardtop off the line showing the various planned tweaks like thicker hinges for the torsion rod, etc.

As of today, and realizing it could change, is end of July still the target for delivering Habitats with the V2.1 tent?

The intererior of the hardtop will be carpeted. No pictures of tent V2.1 yet. UMV is working on this now. July has unfortunately been pushed into August. I will be visiting UMV at the end of this week to install and test a new cap that we started to build 3 weeks ago, it has an improved interior frame that we need to test.

A 1.5 weeks ago I spent time with NEMO going over changes with the 2012 tent from them. We prepped a chopped down top to ship to their sample room in Taiwan. It will be at least 60 days before it arrives there and we will see a new sample that reflects the design changes. The goal is to show the new sample at SEMA.

The other issue I have with the location is heat in the cab. It has been 100+ degrees here for weeks now. For daily driving just include a shutoff valve and turn it off.

We do have an electric model available as well. We install them with a relay system so they only heat when the ignition is on and the engine running. POwer consuption is 200W.

But I really like the idea of having 13 gallons of water all the time. more would be better. If I can figure out what to do with the exhaust I can fit 17 gallons in the back where the cubby is and not have the muffler there.

The cubby when measured our holds slighty less that 5 gallons. Cutting our the cubby, relocating the exhaust and creating a custom drop in tank is no small feat. We have opted to take the less structurally invasive route with the stage 2 cabinet. We recently developed a 57 AGM battery system that fits in the cubby. The folks with AEV Hemi conversions have no room under the hood for a second battery so this is our solution. Once I get the pictures cleaned up I will post.

 

[jrueppel]

Thanks for the update Mario!

 

[DingusKahn]

Bump

So Mario, how did it go at UMV?

Tell us more about the electric water heater.

DK

 

[kb7our]

So Mario, how did it go at UMV?

Tell us more about the electric water heater.

DK

Also interested in hearing more - 200W hardly seems enough???

 

[AZUnlimited]

Hot Water Options

I've had a couple of conversations with Mario regarding hot water options as a permanent install of the heat exchanger hot water bottle behind the passenger seat will not work for me. (I'd like the option to re-install the 60% rear seat if needed)

Here is the info I have from him regarding the electric water heater:
- 200 watt, 12vdc
- 6 liters at a high temp (165F)
- Blended with the cold it will yeild about 3.5 gallons of shower temp water @ 100F.
- recovery time is about 20 mins so if the 1st person uses all the water, the wait is not horrible.

I believe I have read somewhere or heard that the recovery time to heat up the heat exchanger hot water bottle is about 10 minutes.
Both need the engine running to heat up water.

The electric water heater seems like a nice option, but I still like the idea of the heat exchanger hot water bottle using the excess heat of the radiator fluid to heat water.
I've been hoping that there are other potential locations to permanently install it.

 

[Haf-E]

200 watts of heat is not much. Here is how I think it works out:

1 BTU equals the energy required to heat up one pound of water one degree F.

1 watt for an hour equals 3.4 BTUs

Therefore, 1 watt for an hour will heat up 3.4 lbs of water 1 degree F.

So 200 watts for an hour would heat up 680 lbs of water one degree F - or -3.4 lbs of water 200 degrees F

For this case - to take 1.5 gallons of water (about 6 liters or 12 lbs) from 60 degrees to 110 degrees F then that would be:

50 degree F rise X (12 / 3.4) lbs = 176 Lbs-F = 176 watt hours

So the 200 watt heating element would take closer to an hour to heat up the water (allowing for some losses)...

BTW - One BTU is about equal to the heat produced by burning a single wooden match... so you could heat up the same tank of water to 110 degree F with 600 wood matches...

 

[DingusKahn]

Water

If you could get all of the energy from the matches into the water...

Anyway... My main interest in the electric version was to
a) eleminate the heat in the back seat, but a valve will solve that
b) not have to run the engine to heat the water in the morning.
That is the real deal killer. I'm staying with the engine heater. Much faster and less load on the house battery system.
I have even toyed with the idea of building my own.
For the back seat thing, put the heat exchanger under the floor. OR! build one with the exhaust pipe running through it and make it look like a muffler. Get the heat from the exhaust and the hot water from the engine. Faster heat up from a cold start. Hangers on both ends to support the weight.
DK

 

[will]

Has anyone used a Webasto/Espar(Eberspacher) coolant heater to heat up water for showers? I seem to remember an earlier OJ where that was done, but haven't heard/read anything since. There is definitely added complexity, and noise, but I wonder how well this type of system would work?

 

[will]

Also is it possible to mount the combination slide (fridge + stove) without the Stage 1 drawer system, or do they need to be installed together?

 

[kb7our]

Also is it possible to mount the combination slide (fridge + stove) without the Stage 1 drawer system, or do they need to be installed together?

Speaking as an owner of both, YES. They are completely separate units. They do work very well together and in fact I even temporarily mounted a 10G water tank on top of the Stage 1 with access from the rear. This made the drawer system with the tank about the same height as the fridge/stove slide. Another option if you need the drawer storage would be a 2 level Stage 1 version which could be pretty cool. Still could retain the rear seat too.

Wade

 

[will]

Thanks, that's good to know. I'm trying to weigh options and need to know particulars like that.

 

[elcoyote]

So Mario, how did it go at UMV?

Tell us more about the electric water heater.

DK

Lots has happened since last update which full details will go out to the early adopters via e-mail tomorrow. My visit with NEMO a few weeks ago on tent design will yeild sample results in about another 40 days or so. At UMV, we addressed some internal frame design upgrades, built a new top with a modified internal frame structure and discovered that we needed to redesign the hinges yet again due to a clearance issue we had not seen before. We scrambled to get a new set laser cut prior to the upcoming Outdoor Retailer show next week. I just got the first set of hinges today. I will install them and reassemble the Habitat over the next couple of days. More to report on this later.

The electric water heater is made by the same Austrian company that make our heat exchange version. While I do not have first hand experience with the performance, we have installed one in Equipts Land Cruiser. I will see Paul next week and will be able to share his experiences as far as performance goes.

 

[elcoyote]

200 watts of heat is not much. Here is how I think it works out:

1 BTU equals the energy required to heat up one pound of water one degree F.

1 watt for an hour equals 3.4 BTUs

Therefore, 1 watt for an hour will heat up 3.4 lbs of water 1 degree F.

So 200 watts for an hour would heat up 680 lbs of water one degree F - or -3.4 lbs of water 200 degrees F



For this case - to take 1.5 gallons of water (about 6 liters or 12 lbs) from 60 degrees to 110 degrees F then that would be:

50 degree F rise X (12 / 3.4) lbs = 176 Lbs-F = 176 watt hours

So the 200 watt heating element would take closer to an hour to heat up the water (allowing for some losses)...

BTW - One BTU is about equal to the heat produced by burning a single wooden match... so you could heat up the same tank of water to 110 degree F with 600 wood matches...

Thank you for sharing the rules of heat transfer and the conversion of energy here. Something to remember about this type of on board heater is that regardless of whether you choose a coolant heat exchange unit, an electric unit or a combo, it is necessary to run your engine. To drive an electric unit solely from a battery would be taxing on a conventional battery size and larger battery system is not always convenient in the tight spaces of the overland vehicle. In any event, an appropriately wired electic unit (though a relay to the ignition circuit) will yeild water at full temperture when you arrive in camp with no penalty on the battery. The insulated tank will minimize temperature drop and give the convenince of hot water many hours after arriving in camp and shutting down the rig.

The primary advantages of electric are two as follows:
1- Can be used as a source of potable hot water. Coolant exchange units are not suitable for this because of possible cross contamination of coolant with water if there is a failure in the exchange unit.
2- The electric unit is more easily disconnected from the vehicle because it is not plumbed into the coolant system.

Personally I run a coolant exchange unit because it heats quickly, my installation is permenant and I do not use it as a source of potable hot water. If I needed the unit to be removable and I wanted it for potable water, then I would choose electric.

 

[elcoyote]

Has anyone used a Webasto/Espar(Eberspacher) coolant heater to heat up water for showers? I seem to remember an earlier OJ where that was done, but haven't heard/read anything since. There is definitely added complexity, and noise, but I wonder how well this type of system would work?

They work very well. I have user experience in a SMB. IMO though, inside a JK, space is at a premium and they represent a space hog. They do not store water, use fuel, require and extensive installation (expect 12 hrs+). In the same amount of space, a 6 liter electric or heat exchange tank will fit, store water and offer minimum complexity while using energy sources already built into the vehicle i.e. engine coolant, alternator/battery.

 

[elcoyote]

I believe I have read somewhere or heard that the recovery time to heat up the heat exchanger hot water bottle is about 10 minutes.
QUOTE]

This is correct based upon personal experience, the following scenario: Wake in morning, turn over engine, grab PETT, take care of business, return to vehicle, shut off engine, take hot shower.