Lite weight campers & RVs. Consumers/customers need to push manufacturers....

[squeezer]

Squeezer, you mention that your "expeditioning" is ultimately limited by fuel and water.
While that may be true, and is often 100% true, let me ask you this...

Q- whats to say a person or persons utilize their camper and rig for long term dry camping in one location?
Naturally water must be a concern, but there are simple enough ways to go about solving that problem.
As for fuel, it SEVERELY cuts the requirement for fuel, and depending upon how you do it, can nearly make fuel a non-issue.

Not exactly...

My "Expeditioning" is severely limited by vacation time... Literally nothing else.

Alaska aside where can one go in the USA and Canada that fuel range is a problem? How about water?

Unless a person is incredibly unlucky we just flat out don't have logistical problems in North America.

A Jeep Rubicon a couple of jerry cans, and $500 worth of gear at REI and you are as capable as needed for ANY trip imaginable in the USA.

Long term dry camping has very different requirements than Expedition travel. Water is the key factor there as we all know... And fairly easily managed if one is paying attention. And for long term dry camping in one spot a canvas wall tent is likely your best choice...

 

[calicamper]

Not exactly...

My "Expeditioning" is severely limited by vacation time... Literally nothing else.

Alaska aside where can one go in the USA and Canada that fuel range is a problem? How about water?

Unless a person is incredibly unlucky we just flat out don't have logistical problems in North America.

A Jeep Rubicon a couple of jerry cans, and $500 worth of gear at REI and you are as capable as needed for ANY trip imaginable in the USA.

Long term dry camping has very different requirements than Expedition travel. Water is the key factor there as we all know... And fairly easily managed if one is paying attention. And for long term dry camping in one spot a canvas wall tent is likely your best choice...

I do like range when exploring the 395 strip. Which is why I typically make a big effort to fit our Subaru over the truck. One reason the new 2.8 diesel Canyon / colorado has my attention. Similar range capability as the Subaru but better load rating and propper 4x4 capability etc. Jerry jugs suck, I try to avoid them. Need space at home to store them and if I can avoid the need to pack them and the weight along I do just about all I can to avoid doing that. Spend enough years with a 13mpg with tail wind LC you really start to hate jerry cans and lousy mileage / range even in the US.

 

[IdaSHO]

Not exactly...

My "Expeditioning" is severely limited by vacation time... Literally nothing else.

As is the "excuse" for most people.

So what are we talking about then?

You did state this....

True Expedition'ing (A new word!!!?) is logistically limited by fuel and fresh water...

Alaska aside where can one go in the USA and Canada that fuel range is a problem?

Fuel range and reliance upon fuel are two different things.

Sure, there are very few places that fuel RANGE is an actual issue. But that isn't the point.

Fuel usage with regards to operating costs is.



My simple point is that there are many ways to do it.

By "it" I mean extended or even permanent life in a camper, regardless of why or how you define it.

While most think that they need to keep moving, my ideal scenario is to explore at will, and stock and smell the roses from time to time, potentially for weeks or even months.

Doing this allows to you take 100% control of your fuel usage, and enjoy life at the same time. Again, to each their own.



And that takes me right back to the sole discussion, about lightweight campers and how they are of benefit.

Efficiency is key. Reducing weight and having the ability to lean out or eliminate your need for items like fuel is essential.

 

[boxcar1]

Fuel and water.......
Yes . Range is an issue. But limited only by ones ability to carry fuel and proper planning.
The need for water is only limited by the distance between mud puddles if you carry a good quality filtration system.
You have an amazing grasp of the obvious......


I take offence at the statement:

Full time folks the smart ones both on land and water migrate with the seasons to avoid miserable winter conditions.

You're ("Fallow the herd") mentality is not for everyone. Nor the smartest option.

What one person considers miserable conditions, others consider heaven.

I for one could never survive living in California again, nor can I understand any one who chooses to. You on the other hand seem fine with it.

I have spent the better part of my life avoiding what

" the smart ones "

are doing.....

The entire reason for an expedition rig ( TO ME ) is the ability to go where I want, when I want , with no restrictions other than the ones I place upon my self and the restrictions imposed by the law.

And for long term dry camping in one spot a canvas wall tent is likely your best choice...

You have fun with that at 7000 ft...... Winter or summer.
I will keep my hard side.

I'm not saying that one needs a 30" flat screen to be comfortable but I'd rather stay as far away from the stone age as is practical.

 

[squeezer]

snip'

You have fun with that at 7000 ft...... Winter or summer.
I will keep my hard side.

I'm not saying that one needs a 30" flat screen to be comfortable but I'd rather stay as far away from the stone age as is practical.

I am not sure if you are trying to be funny here or are just that out of the loop with what the majority of the Elk hunters use for 6-8 weeks at a time in all kinds of weather conditions most of that being cold/snow at high elevations.

https://www.google.com/search?q=elk...=0ahUKEwjZi470goPLAhVE0WMKHVOeADI4ChD8BQgHKAI

Virtually every Elk hunter I know or am related to wouldn't dream of spending weeks in a slide in camper. Hell half of them drive their truck and campers 2-3 days back and forth to the Elk camp.

 

[IdaSHO]

I am not sure if you are trying to be funny here or are just that out of the loop with what the majority of the Elk hunters use for 6-8 weeks at a time in all kinds of weather conditions most of that being cold/snow at high elevations.

https://www.google.com/search?q=elk...=0ahUKEwjZi470goPLAhVE0WMKHVOeADI4ChD8BQgHKAI

Virtually every Elk hunter I know or am related to wouldn't dream of spending weeks in a slide in camper. Hell half of them drive their truck and campers 2-3 days back and forth to the Elk camp.

That's funny, around here where we have real winters, our hunters use campers :coffeedrink:

Most have trailers. And the going trend is to stake out their "spot" the week or two before by dragging their trailer out, beating the competition, and leaving their trailer there to hold their spot.

Many do have slide ins, but trailers are MUCH more popular. They are also cheaper, and there always seem to be dozens of used POS camp trailers on CL pushing into fall.


Most In know wouldn't ever bother with a temp. No matter how nice it is.

 

[mhiscox]

It would appear that our desire for small, light RVs could be met by moving to another country. ;-)

http://www.gizmag.com/2016-japan-camping-car-show/41852/

83 photos of (mostly) tiny little campers. Worth your time if you're a builder looking for ideas.

-------

(Have a good trip, Squeezer.)

 

[Victorian]

There are some great ideas! I love what they can pack into those small vans.

 

[boxcar1]

I am not sure if you are trying to be funny here or are just that out of the loop with what the majority of the Elk hunters use for 6-8 weeks at a time in all kinds of weather conditions most of that being cold/snow at high elevations.

https://www.google.com/search?q=elk...=0ahUKEwjZi470goPLAhVE0WMKHVOeADI4ChD8BQgHKAI

Virtually every Elk hunter I know or am related to wouldn't dream of spending weeks in a slide in camper. Hell half of them drive their truck and campers 2-3 days back and forth to the Elk camp.

I'm not trying to be funny. And I am a real Elk hunter.....
As is my family and are most of my friends. All, save one, have gone to campers / trailers... Sold the canvas long ago.
Used to take the better part of an entire day just to set up the elk camp and more like a week to truly pack it up once the hunt was over.... ( Have to dry the canvas for proper storage.)
I had an 8'x10' shed dedicated to nothing other than my elk camp gear.
Took a week to get everything ready for the hunt. Weigh's as much as a hard side. And once all the work was done and the camp to support 4 guys for 3 weeks was set up , you get the joy of sleeping on a cot and waking to ice cold canvas in the morning.....
When I was a younger man I lived for that trip. Not any more.
Now I just pull into the same meadow and shut off the truck.

 

[locrwln]

I love all of the thoughts and suggestions in this thread. There has been some really good ideas put forth. Looking forward to what the future holds for campers.

Jack

 

[boxcar1]

This is what 1027.8 lbs looks like....

 

[IdaSHO]

I love all of the thoughts and suggestions in this thread. There has been some really good ideas put forth. Looking forward to what the future holds for campers.

Jack

Hopefully options, and good ones.

Todays market seems to be split into 2 main categories.

Traditional RV type campers and "expo" type campers.


And the price certainly reflects that.

Anywhere from 20-50k for a traditional RV that you might get 10 years out of, or 80k+ for an expo rig that you hope will last for a lifetime.


And neither really allow for customer involvement in the design phase.


So what would you be willing to pay for a lightweight, expo ready camper that was built exclusively for you and your rig?

 

[Victorian]

That's an excellent question! Having build custom Expo trucks I know how much work and time goes into them if you want to do it right. I know it's a tough pill to swollow for many but realistically, a familiy sized expo truck , let's say based on a double cap Unimog, would be very difficult to manufacture for less than $100.000 (without the chassis).

 

[boxcar1]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eirCQp7LYl0/UgSNdHAWE1I/AAAAAAAAIlw/th6W5QmTg6g/s1600/M820+anigif.gif

This would be a hell of a start for a family size expo rig . At $12000 leaves a lot of room for upgrades...

 

[Jeep]

Well, if you shop in the great white north, where we envy the peso along with the warm weather $100K CAD is a meager $75 611.51 USD today (you can go up from there based on personal desires)......and you get design input to a reasonable degree, along with a nice aluminum flat bed, with cabinets, mounted with Transport Canada/DOT certification, and CSA compliance (NFPA 1192) so export and resale is a non issue. If you skin the beast down of some of the convenience items (nothing that affects function) and drop the lower deck cabinets you can probably drop another $7500 CAD or $5670 USD and you are into approx. $69 941 USD. I did a pretty thorough manufacturing evaluation over the course of building mine, I do that with everything I build in case I have to build another.

Is it expensive? Depends what you consider expensive. And in the USD exchange there is a large financial benefit. You can be all set up on a 1 ton single wheel truck, be under GVW, and have far better construction and componentry than any conventional camper, flat bed mounted or otherwise, and something that you can resell or pass down in the family. Your kids can do a reno in 25 years for the $1500 it's going to cost to recover the cushions and replace the mattress. It will outlast your truck....

Coming from that direction I can see a very high end fully equipped slide in camper coming in around $82 500 CAD or $62 441 USD. I have not evaluated that build yet, but it cannot possibly have the space and capacity features of the flat bed design, which will obviously play a part in the price tag. I didn't anticipate building a slide in, but anything is possible. Drop the inverter, lose the wet bath, manual water pump, go minimalist and I don't know where the price would end up but there could be a substantial difference and we are into light 3/4 ton range with great value.

In those prices there are the following items as standard equipment:

Jacks
3000 Watt inverter
2-6 volt AGM's or 1-12 volt AGM on the skinned down version
200 watt solar
Diesel cooktop and heating

And you can buy with confidence, we've been around since 1994 under a couple names due to corporate sales (must have done a little right), grown through 3 recessions, and have the facilities to execute some pretty incredible projects.

Sound like a plausible venture?