loaded gun in the glovebox?

[Haggis]

The law in PA seems to be quite clear, google is your friend:

(a) Offense defined.-- (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

(2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes...firearms-not-to-be-carried-without-a-license/


If you read further, it can be carried in the vehicle unloaded.

It also appears that if you have a CCW permit, it would be legal to carry. But I would check with someone in PA to be certain.

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/PA/18/II/G/61/A/6109/licenses/

Ding, ding, ding. we have a winner!

In PA you must have a concealed carry permit to transport a loaded firearm in a vehicle. Even if it's in a case, locked in a glovebox or hidden in a hardside case. Unloaded firearms are no problem. And you can carry any loaded firearm exposed except in some municipalities, but who wants to hang out there. Technically you're legal to have a loaded firearm in your vehicle while you are on your own property as you are not a public byway or public lands. But as soon as you hit the public highways you'd be in violation.

*EDIT* One other thing...Muzzleloaders are not considered loaded if there is no percussion cap affixed or primer powder in the frizzen, even if there is a powder load and ball down the snout.

 

[Cnickgo]

In NC, a firearm must be either securely locked or in plain sight, or else a Concealed Carry Permit is necessary. You can ride with a weapon on your dash all day long, but as soon as it is concealed from sight, such as a glovebox, you need a permit.

 

[Hanley Noel]

Just get a Utah permit. I'm signed up for the class in Jan. It will cover you in 34 of the states. Unfortunately I live in Illinois (have residency in Indiana) and carrying guns are a huge no no in Chicago--read felony.

Legally carry a concealed firearm in 34 States!
Non-residents of Utah, 21 years of age and older, who complete this 4 hour course, taught by Jim Floyd, M.Ed., a Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification Certified Concealed Firearms Instructor, are eligible to apply for a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit which is recognized in the following states:
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado (recognizes Indiana license, NOT the Utah non-resident permit)
Delaware
Florida (recognizes Indiana license, NOT the Utah non-resident permit)
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana (Indiana residents MUST possess a Indiana handgun license!)
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan (recognizes Indiana license, NOT the Utah non-resident permit)
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nevada
New Hampshire (recognizes Indiana license, NOT the Utah non-resident permit)
New Mexico
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah (recognizes Indiana license AND the Utah non-resident permit)
Vermont
Virgina
West Virginia
Wyoming
Washington State

 

[Dave Bennett]

Regardless of what you do or do not do when it comes to carry in a vehicle, having a concealed permit, or whatever...

DO THIS:

Keep you weapons and vehicle papers/I.D. completely separate (like glove box & center console, you decide) in all your vehicles.

Practice and train yourself to NOT routinely get into the container holding a weapon if/when you are stopped by the cops.

Most people are not pulled-over often, and if you don't think about this and discipline yourself in advance you WILL do the wrong thing out of habit at the Wrong time.

This will make the cop's and your day much safer.

Great advice James.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Just get a Utah permit.

Double check your source, at least one state on there (Nevada) no longer accepts Utah's permit.

 

[RMP&O]

Just get a Utah permit. I'm signed up for the class in Jan. It will cover you in 34 of the states. Unfortunately I live in Illinois (have residency in Indiana) and carrying guns are a huge no no in Chicago--read felony.

Legally carry a concealed firearm in 34 States!
Non-residents of Utah, 21 years of age and older, who complete this 4 hour course, taught by Jim Floyd, M.Ed., a Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification Certified Concealed Firearms Instructor, are eligible to apply for a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit which is recognized in the following states:
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado (recognizes Indiana license, NOT the Utah non-resident permit)
Delaware
Florida (recognizes Indiana license, NOT the Utah non-resident permit)
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana (Indiana residents MUST possess a Indiana handgun license!)
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan (recognizes Indiana license, NOT the Utah non-resident permit)
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nevada
New Hampshire (recognizes Indiana license, NOT the Utah non-resident permit)
New Mexico
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah (recognizes Indiana license AND the Utah non-resident permit)
Vermont
Virgina
West Virginia
Wyoming
Washington State

That is pretty interesting....at least to me since I am in Wyoming.

I really would not want to have it loaded in my glove box. Just because cops are always so cautious when they approach a vehicle. Usually with there hand on their gun. It just seems like it could get ugly fast when you don't really need a loaded gun on you. I guess it could just depend on how you handle yourself in the situation.

I think it is best to know the law first. Get your info from good sources about the law. A forum is usually not the place for that. I have read big threads about this before. One not long ago about guns on the Rubicon. Seems like a lot of bad info can get tossed around pretty easily on a forum when it comes to guns.

 

[FAW3]

Forgive a long post, but the topic is too important for simple answers.

A previous post mentioned keeping your gun separate from "your papers", a very good idea! I have given several people "a bad moment" when they momentarly forgot what was where...but I would suggest the glove box or any OEM compartment is a dumb place to keep a gun.

Anyway, I climbed through the decision tree about 27 years ago about how my wife and I would maintain a ready handgun. First, we both have legal authority to carry concealed due to prior employment, if we did not, we would both have a CCW permit. By the way, in many states...if you have a CCW, that data is linked to your OL and vehicle registrations. When your tag is called in prior to a vehicle stop...in most cases, the cop already knows the registered owner has a CCW.

All our vehicles (and our bedroom closet) have a lockbox. The boxes are all the same. They use the same combination. Easy to open from drivers seat, very secure, unobtrusive. When we sell a vehicle, we move the box to the next. We have guns in each...all are similar in function, caliber, etc.

Here is a vendor I used in the past and would use again for the boxes:

http://www.deansafe.com/amg-swpb2.html

Please look at my vehicles: No LEO decals (not even the little blue stripe), no NRA, Glock or "you can have my gun..." type stickers.

If I am stopped, which is very rare (2x in 45 years) you get a smile, hands in sight, and my OL and registration. I am civil. I listen and answer approprate questions....Are there any weapons or drugs in your car? Answer: No. Can I search your car? No. What are you hiding? Nothing. What is in that small box? If anything, it is personal property of which I have a high expectation of privacy. Will you open it? No. I can get a search warrant? Ok, get one.

If you get tagged, shut up and get a lawyer. Would any of this make me lessen my abilty to protect me and my family from harm....no.

This system works for me....guns are secure from kids and theft, accessable, and I comply with the law. How could this be any simpler?

 

[el_jefe]

If I am stopped, which is very rare (2x in 45 years) you get a smile, hands in sight, and my OL and registration. I am civil. I listen and answer approprate questions....Are there any weapons or drugs in your car? Answer: No. Can I search your car? No. What are you hiding? Nothing. What is in that small box? If anything, it is personal property of which I have a high expectation of privacy. Will you open it? No. I can get a search warrant? Ok, get one.

If you get tagged, shut up and get a lawyer. Would any of this make me lessen my abilty to protect me and my family from harm....no.

This system works for me....guns are secure from kids and theft, accessable, and I comply with the law. How could this be any simpler?

That can get you in trouble in some states. You don't usually have to volunteer information, but many places if a police officer in the course of his/her duties asks, you may be legally obligated to tell them. Gun laws are sticky and vary greatly from state to state and even by county, your best bet is to research any areas where you will be going and read the law yourself, contact law enforcement in the area, or contact a CCW instructor in the area.

 

[craig333]

Best bet is just to not doing thats going to get you pulled over. Obey the speed limit and all other traffic laws. Not that hard.

 

[02tacotoy]

I don't Know if its been mentioned yet, but Handgunlaw.US is a great Reference for situations like this.

 

[astn]

I listen and answer approprate questions....Are there any weapons or drugs in your car? Answer: No. Can I search your car? No. What are you hiding? Nothing. What is in that small box? If anything, it is personal property of which I have a high expectation of privacy. Will you open it? No. I can get a search warrant? Ok, get one.

If you get tagged, shut up and get a lawyer. Would any of this make me lessen my abilty to protect me and my family from harm....no.

This system works for me....guns are secure from kids and theft, accessable, and I comply with the law. How could this be any simpler?

I personally think this is a bad idea. Many states require you to notify the LEO if you are carrying concealed as part of their permit law. While technically the only way they could find out if you've violated the law is via search, the end result is going to be the revocation of your permit. Even if the gun charge doesn't stand up (due to illegal search,) your permit can still be revoked--shall issue means that they have to find a valid reason to not give you a permit, and being charged with a firearms violation (even if dismissed or not guilty) is reason enough to deny. It depends on your locality as to how that'd play out, you may win, you may lose.

I think it's crap that there's such a debate on the "right" to carry concealed, but what are you going to do. If you're in a place where they don't feel the second amendment is an individual right (Chicago, New Jersey, California, etc) and you're interested in seeing change, join a local organization and start working on seeing it resolved. The SCOTUS has been seeing some cases that 10 years ago they wouldn't have touched, and the ball is rolling, we just need to fight it out (and win, which isn't as sure of a thing as it could be.)

Austin

 

[w squared]

when asked by law enforcement if you have a weapon in your vehicle you deny it even though you're carrying one in your "lockbox"?

Hope you never get pulled over by a Federal agent, lying to them about that is an offense all by itself regardless of whether the gun is legally concealed or carried.

Why would anyone lie about legally carrying a weapon to a police officer?

I don't get it.

If there is no legal obligation to inform the police officer that you are carrying a weapon or have on in the vehicle, then you have the right to choose not to tell them. If someone decides to exercise a right which they have and is protected by law, I'm not going to tell them that it's wrong to do so.

That said, if a police officer decides that he is going to do something, do not attempt to stop him. Even if that "something" is illegal, you can voice your objection in a polite manner...but do not attempt to resist him in any physical manner (that includes Greenpeace style "passive resistance"). Let your objection to any action he takes be known after the fact...preferably in writing, with a lawyer involved.

In Canada, we have far fewer legal rights left with regards to firearms. We are hoping to win back just a tiny fraction of what has been taken from us in the next 6 months by having part of the current gun registry abolished. It has taken decades (literally) to accomplish this small step forward.

If you don't understand and exercise your rights, they will vanish. Quietly, steadily, one by one they will be eroded...in steps that are designed to seem "reasonable" and "logical".

 

[Dave Bennett]

If you don't understand and exercise your rights, they will vanish. Quietly, steadily, one by one they will be eroded...in steps that are designed to seem "reasonable" and "logical".

aka "Death by a Thousand Cuts"

 

[Martinjmpr]

The most important piece of legal advice I would give would be this:

Do not rely an an internet message board for legal advice!

Saying "Some guys on the internet told me it would be OK" is not a valid defense in any court I'm aware of.

Most states post their laws online. Go straight to the horse's mouth (i.e. the state's official web site.) Contrary to what many people think, statutes are generally written in plain English and are fairly easy to understand, especially laws regarding firearms.

In CO it's legal to carry a firearm in your car or personal conveyance, locked and loaded and concealed and you do not need a permit. (Incidentally, this applies to any form of private conveyance including bicycles and motorcycles, too.)

However, the instant you step out of or off the vehicle, the weapon cannot be concealed unless you have a permit to do so or are on private property with the permission of the property owner.

Source: CRS 18-12-105

Note also that it is illegal in CO to carry any firearm other than a handgun in a loaded and ready-to-fire condition. Long guns can have a loaded magazine but they must have an empty chamber

Source: CRS 33-6-125

 

[Haggis]

Great post Martin. Sound advice.

This thread has sort of meandered from Al's original question. But it is important to remember that no matter what the laws are in the State that issued you your Conceal Carry Permit, you are subject to the State and/or Municipalitiy laws whose providence you find yourself under. Even if there is a reciporcal agreement on those permits. Assuming that just because your State allows you do do one thing, does not mean you can do the same in another State. It behoves those that do carry concealed to be aware of the regulations for the States, Municipalities, and Federal lands they are visiting.