Locker or Limited Slip or Open on expedition truck?

[Martinjmpr]

Does anybody make an aftermarket E-locker? I would think that there would be a market out there since there's a significant price gap between an auto locker and the full ARB air locker setup.

Jacket: I thought the Tacos had rear disc brakes?

 

[Jacket]

My taco has rear drums, and I assume yours does to. The new Runners have rear disc.

 

[MountainBiker]

I'd say Toy E-locker. Or the air locker, but it will likely cost more. 3rd choice is the True-Trac (torque sensing) LSD that is available for your truck. 4th choice is clutch type LSD if available. And I'd stay with an open diff before using an "auto-locker" in a pickup.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Loaded question, what kind of locker /should/ an expedition truck have. I would say it depends on what you want. Personally I think open diffs work just peachy and the locker is to save your butt or let you get yourself into trouble. So the truck /should/ be open, but in the real world a locker keeps you from getting stuck in mud and snow, through uneven terrain, whatever. So I vote selectable because that lets you pick which style diff you want. Sometimes an open diff is the right thing, sometimes a locked one is. The advantage to a Air Locker or Toyota E-locker is they are 100% full lock or 100% pure open and you pick which.

 

[vengeful]

I'm going to refrain from voting at this time. Personally, I feel that a selectable locker is te best solution, no matter the circumstances, whether the rig be a dedicated rock buggy, an all-around trail runner, or a long-distance expedition rig. The selectable locker gives you the versatility to be prepared for just about anythig you'll encounter. You have the option of an open diff for on-road/inclement weather, and a fully locked diff for the really technical stuff.

I'm withholding my vote at this time because I am currently, but not for long, open/open. I am installing a modified (added more friction clutches for a higher breakaway torque) Nissan Frontier LSD this weekend, hopefully. It will aid my traction needs until I can spare the money for a front/rear ARB air locker setup. I prefer an open diff on snowy/icy roads by far, but an LSD is not a difficult adjustment to make.

 

[Scott Brady]

How many of you that dump on auto lockers have actually driven one? I've used Detroits in the rear of a F350 crewcab, a BJ40 short wheelbase Landcruiser, and a BJ60 wagon. And I have Lockrights at both ends of my M37.

I have driven spooled and lock-right'ed vehicles. Rear is OK. I would not advise one in the front for any environment except technical desert rock trails.

For every other type of terrain, the compromise to understeer, steering component stress, constant ujoint stress and side slope stability is not worth it IMO.

 

[Ruffin' It]

(2) LSD was actually dangerous because it could kick in unpredictibly on-road causing my rear end to spin around,.

Nah, LSD's are absolutly, 100% not dangerous. They never actually lock-up, so they are not able to spontaniously lock-up and cause unpredictable handling. Who ever told you they do that was confusing a LSD with a lunchbox. All LSD's do is keep one wheel from turning much faster than the other - they still allow some difference in speed. LSD's are actually better in snow/ice/wet/loose side-slopes than lockers are. Not saying they are as good in the dirt/mud/ rocks, but they are better in other ways.
I'm about to put front and rear TrackTech LSD's in my Disco because I prefer the reduced strain on my axles and the increased versatility on more surfaces. Of course, I stay away from most things over a 6 so..take this all with a grain of salt.

Just my two cents.

 

[Nullifier]

you never have better options then witha selectable locker. There is a strength differecnce between the trd axle and the non trd axle so if you carr alot of wieght in your rig you might be better off putting an arb in your current axle.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Does anybody make an aftermarket E-locker? I would think that there would be a market out there since there's a significant price gap between an auto locker and the full ARB air locker setup.

Not that has proven itself... lots of issues. To date none of them have come in the Toyota flavor either... Mostly becuase you can still buy a brand new OEM E-locked 3rd member for under a $1000 (NOT bolt in for a Tacoma however*) but they will bolt in any older 8" rear axle truck, 4runner, etc. On top of that used ones can be had for as little as $200, though the fair selling price is ~$450 it seems (not a complete axle, just the 3rd).

* The non TRD Tacomas have an "8.4" (as its called not measured ) rear axle, the differential bolt pattern is different, and short of some major axle work, it isn't feasible to mount the 8" e-locked 3rd member. Thus complete axle swaps are the best option for 95-04' Tacomas. That being said the 8.4" is a stronger 3rd member due to its integrated carrier bearing cap design... allowing less ring gear deflection. Could be a selling point for some?

Here is the catch... the used hub-hub axle is only a better deal than an ARB setup IF its got the gear ratio you need already. Its that close of a margin really. If you pickup a rear axle with the 4.30 and you need 4.10 for say $700, you might as well consider an ARB.

E-locker axle in need of re-gear:
Complete housing $700
U-bolts $30
R&P install kit $145
R&P labor (assuming you pull 3rd) ~$225
R&P $165
Switches & relays for clean install ~$75
Before you know it your at ~$1350

Now the ARB (or any other carrier replacement locker):
ARB unit: $750
Carrier Bearings: $50
Install Labor: $150
Compressor/wiring/switches: $225
Totals up at: ~$1200

Same scenario is true if you already have lower R&P's (ie 4.56, 4.88, 5.29). All things considered the E-lockers are EXCELLENT units, they rarely fail, zero maintainance (use them!!!) and very robust design. Their robust reputation only increases their resale value

 

[AZTrooper]

I have a '99 trooper with factory LSD. Since nobody makes a locker for my diff, I'm stuck with LSD. As far as I'm concerned, LSD works perfect for me. Running 2.5-3 rated trails, I have no problems whatsoever. A 2003 land rover had open diffs and we had to constantly stop to help him get through some rough areas. I have LSD in both front and rear, never had any trouble losing traction over boulders, or anything else for that matter. I'll stick with LSD. IMO, lockers are for hardcore rock crawling and extreme 4 wheelin'.

 

[Christophe Noel]

A 2003 land rover had open diffs and we had to constantly stop to help him get through some rough areas. .

Man....I bet that sucked.

That Land Rover would be me, and yes, I can attest to the rather amazing capabilities of the LSD on your Trooper. You just crawled over boulders and by the time I got to them, they grew to be wheel stoppers. Open diffs do suck. I followed you on that entire section and your wheels didn't roll so much as a pebble my way. I on the other hand launched many a stone towards poor Cody.

Here you are:
View attachment 10013

 

[Scott Brady]

Nah, LSD's are absolutly, 100% not dangerous. They never actually lock-up, so they are not able to spontaniously lock-up and cause unpredictable handling. Who ever told you they do that was confusing a LSD with a lunchbox.

Clutch style (most typical) LSD works on friction pressure. If the tractive road surface has a lower coefficient of friction than the resistance in the clutch packs, it will behave like a spooled axle. Ice, mud and snow are perfect examples. In those conditions, LSDs can be dangerous to the inexperienced driver, leading to excessive oversteer when installed in the rear axle.

A torsion style LSD requires wheel speed differentiation to load the gears against the case and work better than clutch style on slippery surfaces.

 

[Scott Brady]

A 2003 land rover had open diffs and we had to constantly stop to help him get through some rough areas.

That is because the 1999-2003 Disco II does not have a CDL installed from the factory. 1999-2001 is an easy retrofit, 2002 and 2003 are much more difficult and expensive.

With the CDL, the Rover has impressive performance.

 

[Scott Brady]

If I could have any combination I wanted... I think I would go with an aussie lock in the rear and a torsen in front... go anywhere with NO driver input, NO special skill, NO maintenance, and NO reliability concerns. Can't beat that with a stick.

I am curious what area of the country you do most of your 4wd trips?

Thanks

 

[Ruffin' It]

Very true. I forgot about surfaces with extremly low coefficents of friction. I had a Toyota MR2 with a LSD for years while living in Michigan. I think driving that mid-engine, LSD equipped car on fresh ice was about as much driving fun as I have ever had.:av-7:

Clutch style (most typical) LSD works on friction pressure. If the tractive road surface has a lower coefficient of friction than the resistance in the clutch packs, it will behave like a spooled axle. Ice, mud and snow are perfect examples. In those conditions, LSDs can be dangerous to the inexperienced driver, leading to excessive oversteer when installed in the rear axle.

A torsion style LSD requires wheel speed differentiation to load the gears against the case and work better than clutch style on slippery surfaces.