Locker or Limited Slip or Open on expedition truck?

[Spikepretorius]

lockers are for hardcore rock crawling and extreme 4 wheelin'.

I disagree with this statement.

I also disagree with the use of LSD in an offroad vehicle.

Selectable lockers are the best option, but like some have noted, the ARB is expensive. Out here an ARB is a months salary. And they can have airline issues.

Most vehicles in SA use OEM vacuum activated lockers and they very seldom give problems. Most are Gearmax diffs (which I believe is BorgWarner in your parts) but my Mitsu comes with a genuine Mitsu diff.

 

[7wt]

Martin,

I am in the same boat you are in. I need (want) more traction in the rear and have been looking into the lunch boxes or LSD's. I have decided to go with a Trutrac because it is a different beast all together. It acts like a LSD but works on a 3 to 1 ratio. If the right side is off the ground and providing no traction, the left side will rotate 1/3 the speed of the lifted tire. Think of it as a 3rd of a locker. It will always work without worrying about clutch packs to wear out and provides seamless traction benifits. The only down side is it cost a little more than the lunch boxes and not that much less than the e locker conversion if shopped patiently.

I need something that will work on wet roads and not stick me in a ditch and this seems to be the best set up for my needs. I have spoke with a lot of folks that run this diff and they said they would do it again for the type of gains they are recieving but you have to understand that it wouldn't be their first choice for a rock buggy. I think it is the best set up for an expedition set up due to it's reliability, no air hoses to leak, no electric actuator to get wet and bail on you.

 

[njtaco]

Just to throw out there...

A torsen type LSD would work best for me, if only because my wife also drives the truck. Her "driving skills" do not include dealing with the quirks associated with a lunchbox locker, spool, or even a tight clutch type LSD. An ARB or E-locker are beyond her mechanical comprehension, and thus are useless (or even dangerous) to her. This is not a general dig against her, or women in general, but she grew up without a father around and just never had the opportunities to learn relevant skills.

Whew, all that to say we need to consider other drivers of the vehicle in question in the decision making process.

FWIW, a co-worker is installing Torsen type LSDs in the front and rear of his Jeep, at least in part so his wife can drive it in the snow/ice without having to think about how it is "different" than their Chevy Avalanche.

 

[Spikepretorius]

Whew, all that to say we need to consider other drivers of the vehicle in question in the decision making process

True words indeed.

And talking about quirks a thing that really bothers me is automatic traction control on it's various forms. If the driver is not fully aware of the quirks of their particular version it can be dangerous.

When I bought my new Mitsubishi it came with a free introductory 4x4 course. After much indecision I decided what the hell let's go see what it's about, and dragged a buddy along to keep me awake.

What an eye opener!

I was the only truck there and the only one with previous experience. The rest were all total novices with various models of Montero/Pajero. According to the instructor just about every Montero present had a different permutation of the traction control system, each with different characteristics. And we had a class room full of total newbie 4x4ers who had no clue as to how they worked. They were all under the impression that thay had bought the best and were ready to tackle whatever was thrown at them. During the practical segment the poor instructor was having to give different instruction to each different driver. In a particular situation the one must tap off, the other must accelerate, and yet another must hold it smooth.

These fancy gizmos are a danger to Joe Public in my eyes

 

[cruiser guy]

Because the poll said which SHOULD an expedition truck have I chose an e-locker or air locker.

When finances come into play the choice can change. I have an Aussie locker in the rear and will be installing a limited slip in the front.

99% of the time you probably don't need the locker but when you do you'll be glad you have it.

 

[ntsqd]

........

Gov-Locks are stupid and I hate GM for putting them in vehicles.

The poor ol Gov-Loc. No one seems to like it.
I contend that had it worked as intended very few owners would see a need to change to something else. Think about what it is, then compare it to the selectable lockers that are LSD's when 'unlocked'. Only real difference is automatic vs. manual locking.

BTW, your scenario would more likely result in a broken Gov-Loc than a launch.

Long time compatriot off the ORC yota list has Tru-Tracs front and rear in his IFS yota. Reportedly a Tru-Trac will spin the lifted tire (unlike the far more rare and considerably more spendy Wiseman (sp?) that it and the Gleason/Zextel Torsen are based off of). Ed's trick to deal with that is a very light brake apply.

 

[goodtimes]

I know of a number of GM's (particularly the [no longer produced] S-10), that would literally eat motor mounts. What really sucked about it was when you would grab 2nd or 3rd gear, the engine rolls over, the fan meets the shroud, then splinters into a bunch of nice sharp shards, some of which WILL end up in your radiator....costing you about $1000 to fix it all. I don't think the gov-lock has anything to do with it. It is more a matter of poor quality motor mounts.

The g-80 in my old s-10 worked fine, as long as you were not afraid to use the skinny pedal. So, for rock crawling, it was useless. But for playing around on forest service roads and the like (say, trails rated at, or less than 2.5), where you would occasionally need a bit more traction than an open diff can provide, it was quite adequate. But I certainly wouldn't trade either of my air lockers for one....

 

[Ruffin' It]

I have a couple questions for those running selectable lockers:
Are you able to lock them if you become stuck? or is it like my CDL which really needs to be locked before hand? Are you able to unlock easily to negotion a tight turn or something, or do you have to plan ahead for that too. Finally, did you switch to a HD axle when you put the lockers on (assuming they didn't come standard)

Thanks,
Tyler

 

[Taz]

I have a couple questions for those running selectable lockers:
Are you able to lock them if you become stuck? or is it like my CDL which really needs to be locked before hand? Are you able to unlock easily to negotion a tight turn or something, or do you have to plan ahead for that too. Finally, did you switch to a HD axle when you put the lockers on (assuming they didn't come standard)

Thanks,
Tyler

Mine came standard, but I have upgraded my axles anyway. I am able to lock up both front and rear fairly easy, although sometimes I need the wheels to turn just a bit to get them to finish engaging most of the time not even a quarter turn of the wheels either forward or reverse. Also the front sometimes is finicky if the wheels are cranked hard to one side or the other, but I have yet to run into a problem getting them to disengage for a turn.

 

[spressomon]

I have a couple questions for those running selectable lockers:
Are you able to lock them if you become stuck? or is it like my CDL which really needs to be locked before hand? Are you able to unlock easily to negotion a tight turn or something, or do you have to plan ahead for that too. Finally, did you switch to a HD axle when you put the lockers on (assuming they didn't come standard)

Thanks,
Tyler

The Toyota e-locker (on my '99 LC) most normally needs a little distance to engage. However the ARB Air Locker on the front of my LC engages almost instantly. Best bet: Engage before you're stuck...particularly with the e-locker.

 

[TeriAnn]

I have a couple questions for those running selectable lockers:
Are you able to lock them if you become stuck? or is it like my CDL which really needs to be locked before hand? Are you able to unlock easily to negotion a tight turn or something, or do you have to plan ahead for that too. Finally, did you switch to a HD axle when you put the lockers on (assuming they didn't come standard)

I have an ARB air locker in the rear. It has no problems engaging after I get stuck. I think an important trick is to realize when you are getting into trouble, stop, engage the locker, air down if you have not already then proceed before you get good and stuck. The stucker you are the harder to get unstuck. When you frame is resting on the ground and taking all the weight is the wrong time to ask your buddies for a tow.

I have an automatic torque biasing diff up front because I like to work my front wheels in the gooey and loose stuff to try to get the bes bite I can with the edge of my treads to try and get the front out of whatever it is in.

I don't like the idea of a front locked diff but I have learned to love a front automatic torque biasing diff.

My vote is a selectable locker in the rear, an automatic torque biasing diff up front AND on board air so you will not be reluctant to air down early on.

Oh, axles. My 1960 Land Rover came with weak 10 spline axles. In 1996 I swapped the rear out for a Salisbury (Dana 60 built in the UK under license from Dana) with much stronger 24 spline axles. In 1997 I added an ARB air locker in the rear and Quaife automatic biasing diff up front. In 2006 I went to hardened rear axles from Great basin Rovers. Today and tomorrow I'm adding hardened 24 spline front axles made by SeriesTrek.

 

[Scott Brady]

Hi TeriAnn,

Were you on a Border to Border event?

Fantastic Dormobile you have there :arabia:

 

[Ruffin' It]

TeriAnn - I think your set-up is what is starting to make the most sense to me (can I re-vote?):bowdown: . I always was a little nervous about the stresses created, especially in the front axle, when turning and locked. I know lots of people do it, but me still being so new to the wonderful world of off-road travel, I don't feel like I have the expereince to really use them properly (read: not end up with steel confetti). I guess in my mind I'd rather be stuck than broken.

BTW, your website makes me envious in the best possible way. Love the 109 AND the Wolfhound
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

 

[MountainBiker]

I have decided to go with a Trutrac because it is a different beast all together. It acts like a LSD but works on a 3 to 1 ratio. If the right side is off the ground and providing no traction, the left side will rotate 1/3 the speed of the lifted tire. Think of it as a 3rd of a locker. It will always work without worrying about clutch packs to wear out and provides seamless traction benifits.

Do you have the source for this info on the 3:1 ratio of the TruTrac? I thought it worked similarly to a Torsen diff, which provides zero torque to the wheel on the ground when one wheel is in the air.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Do you have the source for this info on the 3:1 ratio of the TruTrac? I thought it worked similarly to a Torsen diff, which provides zero torque to the wheel on the ground when one wheel is in the air.

To my knowledge they dont... they need some sort of resistance from the other side in order to initiate the torque transfer. If one tire is in the air, your not getting the 3:1 torque transfer. Though, a little finessing with the brake pedal and you can often start the transfer to the other tire. PITA in my opinion... while it works for some, I prefer to know I am either 100% open, or 100% locked... not some varying ratio inbetween