Looking to buy a Trooper-what to look for
- Thread starter BBslider001
- Start date
BigSwede
The Credible Hulk
Hmmm, well that probably had more to do with your tires than anything. I have driven Troopers for 14 years now, including a ton of miles on washboard dirt roads, and never experienced that.
Ask anybody who has wheeled with me, expo or otherwise, if they 'ran circles around my Trooper'. They will set you straight.
There are a lot of good reasons to get a Landcruiser, but most of them have to do with market penetration and related service, parts availability, and aftermarket. A smaller manufacturer can't compare with that. Mechanically, I have compared my Trooper side-by-side with Lancruisers and 4Runners, and the Trooper is a lot closer in terms of frame and hardware strength to the Landcruiser than you think.
Actually you are wrong, if comparing dollar to dollar. You can get a Trooper and make it expo-ready for peanuts, whereas even a decent used Landcruiser requires a mortgage to get one. I'm sure you will say there is a reason for that, but the fact is their pricing is WAY out of proportion to their relative performance.
And really, if 'you live in America', there is a lot LESS reason to shell out for a Landcruiser than there is for use in other parts of the world where Landcruisers are indeed king.
If you say it multiple time, it must be true. Lol, I am beginning to wonder if the loss of control you experienced was more driver-related than anything.
How many Toyotas were sold compared to Isuzus? Think that might have something to do with it?
In any case you are welcome to join us in Moab for the Isuzu get-together in May. I will take you on Golden Spike, no problem. Heck, I've done it several times before, yes in a Trooper.
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rotozuk
New member
Was going to say I was sipping a soda while cruising at 50 mph in my Trooper on nasty washboard today. The dogs in the back were happily sleeping after enjoying a fun day on the local trail. We didn't die or anything. LOL
When I go to Moab I tend to see a lot of Isuzus, but I tend to go on the Isuzu week.
I wheel with Toyotas all the time. They are very nice, but cost a lot more. They are blessed with a lot more aftermarket, that is very true. With that said, I'm not sure what I would want to buy and bolt onto my Trooper for my needs. I usually build my own.
-Wayne
When I go to Moab I tend to see a lot of Isuzus, but I tend to go on the Isuzu week.
I wheel with Toyotas all the time. They are very nice, but cost a lot more. They are blessed with a lot more aftermarket, that is very true. With that said, I'm not sure what I would want to buy and bolt onto my Trooper for my needs. I usually build my own.
-Wayne
SRN
Adventurer
Ok! :thumbs up:
I was blasting down about 100 miles of awesomely bad washboard during Freeze Your Tail Off in December and never felt like the Trooper was going to lose control. In fact, in the year I've owned my '94 I've probably put nearly 500 miles of washboard under it driving around in Utah. Never felt it get any more squirrelly than, say, an 80-series Land Cruiser. Were your tires inflated too high? What were the other road conditions? How comfortable were you at the time driving a high clearance off-highway vehicle? Did it happen to you more than once? Has there been documentation showing that this is a common issue? If this is the only instance, I don't know if it's fair to use this as the only qualifier to not get a Trooper.
First off, what is an “expo rig”? I like my Trooper because it's set up as an expedition vehicle (or “rig” if you prefer). Expo, in my limited understanding, refers to “Expedition Portal”, or ExPo. So I guess if you're building a rig to show off on ExPo, then sure, build up a Land Cruiser! Or a Unimog, or anything else that will impress other web wheelers!
See my first statement.
How do these make a Trooper look foolish? Can I get an example? As others have stated, a Trooper and similar vintage Land Cruiser are closer in build quality than you may think. I'll do a name drop thing here, since you're such a Land Cruiser guy. One of my good friends is Kurt Williams, owner of Cruiser Outfitters and generally considered one of the authorities on all things Toyota off-road. He's helped me do all the work on my Trooper and frequently comments on the similarities between the Trooper and Land Cruisers. Oh noes! How can that be!?! It's a rip in the space time continuum!
No, you're telling it like your narrow view of the off highway vehicle market sees it. And you're offending people. Or at the very least making us laugh at you.
Ok, buddy. I'll keep that in mind. How old are you? I certainly hope that your parents are monitoring your internet usage. And your language! I think mommy's going to be washing your mouth out with soap tonight.
Try harder.
They are like nipples! Everyone has at least one. Except people who have been horribly burned. Poor saps…
Justy's are awesome! I always thought the 4WD version would make the perfect pizza delivery vehicle. Think about it, small and economical, 4WD, CVT transmission, pizza warming unit in the back. Put a small lift on it, good snow tires in the winter. It'd be unstoppable.
I don't think you can. I think you lack the ability for individual thought and creativity. All the other lemmings are running off the Toyota money pit, you'll likely follow.
Good. More Troopers for the rest of us! Save the Troopers from vehicle bigots!!!
Yes.
Again, for an expo vehicle (or rig), perhaps. But I'm not much of a web wheeler. For an expedition vehicle I would venture to say that the “best” is what you as an individual find suits you the best. I like my Trooper. It suits me fine. That said, my Samurai is also pretty awesome for shorter trips (and trust you me, I can fit that Samurai places a Land Cruiser dreams about and then wets itself. Does that make a Samurai better than a Land Cruiser? You betcha!
)Ellipsis…
And are failing.
I thought that they only got squirrelly on asphalt washboard and thus should never be driven under any conditions. In fact, what I'm getting from you, is that all Troopers (perhaps all Isuzu's?) should be crushed and melted so that their once inferior metal can be used to fashion new, amazing, God-like Toyotas.
Man, you really like web wheeling! Maybe you should get out of the house more.
Are you touching yourself right now while you think about Land Cruisers?
Are you? Actions speak louder than words.
Wow, I gotta see this! Do you have video? An inanimate object with no legs literally kicking another inanimate object with no posterior in the posterior. Please show us this evidence!
I do, and have. I'd venture to guess many more times than you.
A fair number. Less now as they are getting older.
Lots. But there were also tens of thousands more Toyota's sold in the US than Isuzu's. Simple mathematics (which I'm guessing you lack the ability to process) would allow you to figure out that there would be more Toyota's than Isuzu's due to that.
Or you could buy a Trooper! I got mine for $700! And its swell! I'm quite pleased with it and would recommend a Trooper to anyone. They are well built, very capable off road, have tons of space, and are immensely comfortable. I think anyone considering an expedition vehicle should give the Trooper a good hard look because of these, and many other qualities. But just remember, one time Cat Jockey got it sideways for unspecified reasons after driving over some ruts in the road. Many suspect that he was inexperienced at driving, and quite possibly tweeking on some catnip, but hey! It could happen to you too! So BEWARE!
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Sounds like an Isuzu nailed Cat Jockeys girlfriend.
I have a first gen Trooper, and I've been very happy with it. It has no business being as solid as it is for how much I paid for it. Drove it from Texas to Michigan last month, and then yanked some folks out of snow drifts when I got there.
I have a first gen Trooper, and I've been very happy with it. It has no business being as solid as it is for how much I paid for it. Drove it from Texas to Michigan last month, and then yanked some folks out of snow drifts when I got there.
double moo
Adventurer
I still really like my Trooper, just wish there was better aftermarket support. My buddy was a diehard 80 series fan... Was a total money pit.. I like them too but think his was a lemon. He would continually give me crap about the IFS, real trucks had solid axles... Until Toyota threw IFS on their newer rigs, now I tell him it's just proof Isuzu was ahead of their time!
Both good rigs, whatever makes you happy.
Both good rigs, whatever makes you happy.
BBslider001
Diesel Head
Yeah, no influence here...still gonna get a Trooper. I am not even looking at "Yotas"....I must be REALLY dumb :sombrero: Still looking and taking my time. I trust the right one will come along.
Clutch
<---Pass
We have both...I kinda like them both...I must be bi-polar or sumthing...
The Trooper does have better cup holders than my Tacoma, not that will sway a person one way or another
rotozuk
New member
I have to agree with the other poster.. My Trooper is always spinning out. Sometimes I spin it out going to the store, than I park it, and do some shopping, and when I come back out the darn thing has spun on its own in the parking lot. It is just crazy!! Unsafe at NO speed.
Just kidding.
Just kidding.
BBslider001
Diesel Head
:coffeedrink: me this morning after reading this
4D55 Performance
Explorer
BBslider-Every vehicle on the market has it's trade-offs and the only way to find out what vehicle you like the best is to ask questions and drive them. You have done the right thing by asking questions. I have only owned one first gen 1990 trooper and two Isuzu pickups(LUVs). I really had issues with rust but this may not be an issue for you if you live in socal. The 2.6L trooper had trouble keeping up on the freeway when going up hills. On flat ground i did pretty well. I think the 2.6 FI is better than the GM 2.8. The leaf sprung suspension was not as smooth as competitors coil sprung rear suspension. Since it has been over ten years since I owned that trooper I am unsure of parts availability. I remember having an alternator go out and the local auto parts store had one on hand. I know there was a place setup to sell dealer parts in Garden Grove, CA. So if that is close to you then it would make more sense to look at getting an Isuzu. I still recommend driving other vehicles like the 1st and 2nd gen Montero, 2nd gen trooper because they are very similar in appearance and it will give you a better idea of whats out there. I also know there is a large Montero contingency in socal that does a lot of trips together which is always a bonus. But I am sure they would let an Isuzu guy join because they are just nice that way. Drive them, see what the trade-offs are and it will help you form your own opinion more easily. Even my G500 has trade offs, as I have found out, it can be expensive to fix, it has a rare bolt pattern so getting aftermarket wheels are basically no existent unless you like running 24" rims. It lacks switch to unlock the power doors, you have to open your door to unlock door when you pickup a passenger. So stupid. The steering is heavy, but tight. But deep down I still love it because it has that great look like the troopers, montys and defenders. If I were to buy another first gen trooper, which I am looking for a really clean 1987 first gen with a 2.2 turbo Diesel with 3rd gen connecting rods, I would cover ever square inch of the underside with bedliner to prevent rust.
For those who were wondering even the legendary FJ80 has it's trade-offs and it's over-rated(I have owned two). Are they good vehicles, yes. Would I buy another one, possibly, do they have major shortcomings, yes. In stock form an FJ80 is not a serviceable offroad vehicle. To be be serviceable the spare tire needs to be relocated, it needs a small 2-3 lift and some larger tires so the rear end doesn't scrape on every rock. To do this you are looking at $3000-4000 which is a lot of money and that does not include the $6000-10,000 purchase price. I don't understand why that one guy a was so insistent they are perfect, cause it's just not the case. Other vehicles will be much more serviceable right out of the box. Buying a Trooper or something similar makes a lot of sense if you are on a small budget. How much will it cost to buy a 2nd trooper with and fit it with 33's? You could buy 2nd gen trooper and outfit it with 33" tires for $2500-3500 total. That's a lot cheaper than a Landcruiser. The Same goes for the Montero. You can get a lot of bang for your buck but you can bolt 35's on a stock 2nd gen Montero with out any concerns of breaking. I have never heard of a failure on a 2nd gen Montero with 35" tires even when locked in the front. Montero's for some reason don't have front end failures even when fitted with 40"+ tires. Logic would say they should fail but they don't. Do I know why they don't fail, No. But I have my suspicions Mitsubishi is using a stronger alloy on the front end components than their competitors. With the older Monteros the interiors quality is a problem area which is ironic because by the 3rd gen Montero the interior is like a Mercedes. The interior in the older troopers held up much better than the montero's interior.
From what I have been seeing you are on a limited budget and live in socal. Drive as many vehicles as you can within you price range regardless of brand. Where would we all be if we were closed minded and only drove what our parents liked. I would be driving a POS 1990 Chevy pickup if that were the case. The interior fell apart long before the truck ever wanted too.
When your looking for a 25 year old vehicle condition and maintenance history are everything. If I see one in your area I will let you know.
To give you a little idea if you are looking at first gen monty vs first gen trooper. This is not to say one is better than the other, it just gives you an idea of how they are different from my experience of owning both.
Purchase price: Even
Appearance: Even, it's just a matter of personal preference.
Engine: Advantage Montero, the 143 hp 3.0 v6 is very reliable and easy to find parts for. It was used in over 25 applications by Hyundia, Mitsubishi, Dodge, Chrysler and Plymouth.
Transmission: Advantage Montero, the 1990-91 automatic tranny with the lockup torque converter is so smooth and it is compatible with NP231/NV241 tcase. I can not say enough about how amazing this tranny is. It's bullit proof and smooth.
Tcase: Advantage Trooper, the trooper has a better low range ratio about 2.28:1. The Montero had a terrible low range ratio at 1.9:1.
Rear End: Even, both had an LSD
Front End: Advantage Montero, The components are pretty stout and 33" will not be an issue. The first gens Montero can only accommodate 33" tires with out serious rubbing issues. It's the second gen Montero's that can accommodate 35"+ tires.
Frame: Advantage Montero, the first gen Isuzu had rust issues and frames can rust right through. The Montero uses a fully boxed frame.
Body: Advantage Montero, it less prone to rust
Suspension: Advantage Montero because it used coils in the rear it this is more just personal preference. Leafs have there advantages, especially when carrying a heavy load. So the advantage could be Trooper depending on your needs.
Steering and handling: Even
Fuel Economy: Even, both take regular fuel and get the same MPG
Rear door: Advantage Trooper, the barn doors are nice to have.
Interior: Advantage Trooper, the fabric seems to hold up better, but the Montero did come with a drivers side bouncy seat. Bouncy seats are way cool.
Aftermarket Support: Advantage Trooper, with the help of Independent 4x4 the Trooper has the advantage, but most things can be had for the Montero
Dealer support: Advantage Montero, they still have a dealer network for the time being but that can change. Trooper parts can be had through aftermarket dealers
Safety: Even, Neither vehicle is all that safe when compared to newer vehicles.
Seating and cargo capacity: Even
For those who were wondering even the legendary FJ80 has it's trade-offs and it's over-rated(I have owned two). Are they good vehicles, yes. Would I buy another one, possibly, do they have major shortcomings, yes. In stock form an FJ80 is not a serviceable offroad vehicle. To be be serviceable the spare tire needs to be relocated, it needs a small 2-3 lift and some larger tires so the rear end doesn't scrape on every rock. To do this you are looking at $3000-4000 which is a lot of money and that does not include the $6000-10,000 purchase price. I don't understand why that one guy a was so insistent they are perfect, cause it's just not the case. Other vehicles will be much more serviceable right out of the box. Buying a Trooper or something similar makes a lot of sense if you are on a small budget. How much will it cost to buy a 2nd trooper with and fit it with 33's? You could buy 2nd gen trooper and outfit it with 33" tires for $2500-3500 total. That's a lot cheaper than a Landcruiser. The Same goes for the Montero. You can get a lot of bang for your buck but you can bolt 35's on a stock 2nd gen Montero with out any concerns of breaking. I have never heard of a failure on a 2nd gen Montero with 35" tires even when locked in the front. Montero's for some reason don't have front end failures even when fitted with 40"+ tires. Logic would say they should fail but they don't. Do I know why they don't fail, No. But I have my suspicions Mitsubishi is using a stronger alloy on the front end components than their competitors. With the older Monteros the interiors quality is a problem area which is ironic because by the 3rd gen Montero the interior is like a Mercedes. The interior in the older troopers held up much better than the montero's interior.
From what I have been seeing you are on a limited budget and live in socal. Drive as many vehicles as you can within you price range regardless of brand. Where would we all be if we were closed minded and only drove what our parents liked. I would be driving a POS 1990 Chevy pickup if that were the case. The interior fell apart long before the truck ever wanted too.
When your looking for a 25 year old vehicle condition and maintenance history are everything. If I see one in your area I will let you know.
To give you a little idea if you are looking at first gen monty vs first gen trooper. This is not to say one is better than the other, it just gives you an idea of how they are different from my experience of owning both.
Purchase price: Even
Appearance: Even, it's just a matter of personal preference.
Engine: Advantage Montero, the 143 hp 3.0 v6 is very reliable and easy to find parts for. It was used in over 25 applications by Hyundia, Mitsubishi, Dodge, Chrysler and Plymouth.
Transmission: Advantage Montero, the 1990-91 automatic tranny with the lockup torque converter is so smooth and it is compatible with NP231/NV241 tcase. I can not say enough about how amazing this tranny is. It's bullit proof and smooth.
Tcase: Advantage Trooper, the trooper has a better low range ratio about 2.28:1. The Montero had a terrible low range ratio at 1.9:1.
Rear End: Even, both had an LSD
Front End: Advantage Montero, The components are pretty stout and 33" will not be an issue. The first gens Montero can only accommodate 33" tires with out serious rubbing issues. It's the second gen Montero's that can accommodate 35"+ tires.
Frame: Advantage Montero, the first gen Isuzu had rust issues and frames can rust right through. The Montero uses a fully boxed frame.
Body: Advantage Montero, it less prone to rust
Suspension: Advantage Montero because it used coils in the rear it this is more just personal preference. Leafs have there advantages, especially when carrying a heavy load. So the advantage could be Trooper depending on your needs.
Steering and handling: Even
Fuel Economy: Even, both take regular fuel and get the same MPG
Rear door: Advantage Trooper, the barn doors are nice to have.
Interior: Advantage Trooper, the fabric seems to hold up better, but the Montero did come with a drivers side bouncy seat. Bouncy seats are way cool.
Aftermarket Support: Advantage Trooper, with the help of Independent 4x4 the Trooper has the advantage, but most things can be had for the Montero
Dealer support: Advantage Montero, they still have a dealer network for the time being but that can change. Trooper parts can be had through aftermarket dealers
Safety: Even, Neither vehicle is all that safe when compared to newer vehicles.
Seating and cargo capacity: Even
BigSwede
The Credible Hulk
I thought the OP was looking at 2nd gens, but I haven't reviewed all the posts in between.
So, keep in mind that much of the above does not apply to 2nd gen Troopers. Here are some differences with 2nd gens:
93-97 Troopers 3.2L V6 175-190hp, very reliable.
2nd gen Troopers can handle 33s without a lift. 35s are too big without regearing IMO, but can be fitted with 4" minimum lift.
Troopers have fully boxed frames also.
Unlike first gens, 2nd gens bodies are quite rust resistant.
2nd gens have coil suspensions. OME coils make a fabulous upgrade, with 3 different spring rates available.
4D55 Performance
Explorer
The only Trooper bbslider has posted up that he was interested in was a first Gen.
BBslider001
Diesel Head
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...66804&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123#v4-42
Here is one to check out and give opinions on. Has the V6...not so sure about that.
I am interested in both 1st and 2nd, depending on what I find for the $$. A 1st gen would be my first choice, but I am not opposed to 2nd gens.
Here is one to check out and give opinions on. Has the V6...not so sure about that.
I am interested in both 1st and 2nd, depending on what I find for the $$. A 1st gen would be my first choice, but I am not opposed to 2nd gens.
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