LR3 Help

[R_Lefebvre]

this whole "dweb crew" stereotype thing is getting old, real quick. I was a member of dweb long before this forum. Am I not welcome here? Am I "one of them"?

"We" aren't the gang from the other side of town. "We" all aren't hot headed, experts, or novices. Why the hell am i even saying "we"? Probably because I feel grouped into a stereotype. Oh well.

This is a great site, and I'm glad I was referred to it. However, I don't think its the folks from dweb who came "en masse" who threaten to worsen it. I think it's the people who feel "their" site is threatened and retaliate against new members based on what other site they might have joined first. The moderators of this site know their goals, and they do a good job at sticking to them. I don't think this site is going to "become like dweb". Is it just the Land Rover section, or do folks in the other make/model sections on this board act like middle school girls defending their cliques? Sheesh...

No, and you're right. My use of the term stems from some of the prominent personalities there who tended to drive the discussions there, coming here. I will stop using the term.

Apparently this problem is not restricted to the LR forum, I'm told there is concern about the style of discussions in other forums here as well, though I haven't seen it myself.

 

[michaelgroves]

Where have I ever claimed to have more experience than anyone else here. I have not even claimed to have more experience than you. There are quite a few people on this board with a lot of experience and knowledge. I listen to what they have to say. I may not agree, and I may decide to do it my way regardless of the information provided. That does not make me an expert. However, if someone then asks why I did it my way, I give my reasons. I may then get an earfull as to why my reasons are wrong. You know what? As long as I have put thought into it and I am comfortable with my reasons then... I am ok with that. But again, that does not make me an expert.

You're right, I lumped you in with the others based on the side you are taking. What you write is exactly how I approach this forum as well.

LOL - you two are not so different. Intelligence and an ability to analyse other people's reasoning is a good complement to personal experience. Better in some ways, and of course not as good in others. But life would be hell if we had to learn every hard lesson through personal experience!

 

[traveltoad]

LOL - you two are not so different. Intelligence and an ability to analyse other people's reasoning is a good complement to personal experience. Better in some ways, and of course not as good in others. But life would be hell if we had to learn every hard lesson through personal experience!

I agree that to learn it all through personal experience would be a real bitxh. Even with help and guidance I have had my fair share of hard knocks (as I am sure we all have).

The difference is that I would never have considered posting much more than a question regarding trucks with a couple weekends of seat time.

Just as now I would never try to advise someone as to how to plan an around the world trip. Do I have opinions as to how it could or should be planned, yes. Do I think those opinions are worthy as advice for someone else who is getting ready for a trip? Hell no.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

What bothers me is that you seem to have assumed that knowing EFI makes you informed as to how to choose and set up a truck.

I NEVER assumed that. I only debated some very specific technical misconceptions presented here. Such as ECU reflashes being indicative that the vehicles were unfinished when released. Or that the loss of one COP would take down the entire EFI system. etc.

My bike is "most complicated off-road motorcycles made"? Really? I am very curious as to why you say this.

I didn't say THE most, I said one of. It has fuel injection, two cylinders, liquid cooling, a low mounted front fender, ABS brakes, and catalytic converters. I grew up on air cooled single cylinders with drum brakes, kick start, and not even a battery. Some of them didn't even have valves or any place to keep oil. (Take that diesel truck guys.) :elkgrin:

Your bike could be criticized because it cannot go on this trail:

And at over 500lbs, would take even more than 5 men to extract from this mud hole than this KLR, and if Larry the cable guy on the left didn't show up in a truck with a tow strap, that bike would still be there today.

But I for one would not do that, because I know the intended purpose of your bike. I admire your bike for what it was made to do, and would be very happy to have one in my garage, cost being no object (alongside a nice Triumph Scrambler). Since I'll never make that happen, and my goals for travel are a little different than yours, I'll probably get a DR650 when I can.

I don't feel the need to belittle you our your choice in bikes just because mine is more capable off-road, or maybe I've been driving off-road bikes longer than you at about 25 years? And you don't see me in the Adventure Motorcycle forum telling people not to buy 950's because I had to leave one on the side of a trail with a dead fuel pump, or not to buy KTM's because I find them less reliable than the Japanese bikes.

 

[muskyman]

Your bike could be criticized because it cannot go on this trail:

I guess that all depends on who was riding it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6TYxgocZfo

 

[traveltoad]

I NEVER assumed that. I only debated some very specific technical misconceptions presented here. Such as ECU reflashes being indicative that the vehicles were unfinished when released. Or that the loss of one COP would take down the entire EFI system. etc.



I didn't say THE most, I said one of. It has fuel injection, two cylinders, liquid cooling, a low mounted front fender, ABS brakes, and catalytic converters. I grew up on air cooled single cylinders with drum brakes, kick start, and not even a battery. Some of them didn't even have valves or any place to keep oil.

Your bike could be criticized because it cannot go on this trail:

And at over 500lbs, would take even more than 5 men to extract from this mud hole than this KLR, and if Larry the cable guy on the left didn't show up in a truck with a tow strap, that bike would still be there today.



But I for one would not do that, because I know the intended purpose of your bike. I admire your bike for what it was made to do, and would be very happy to have one in my garage, cost being no object (alongside a nice Triumph Scrambler). Since I'll never make that happen, and my goals for travel are a little different than yours, I'll probably get a DR650 when I can.

I don't feel the need to belittle you our your choice in bikes just because mine is more capable off-road, or maybe I've been driving off-road bikes longer than you at about 25 years? And you don't see me in the Adventure Motorcycle forum telling people not to buy 950's because I had to leave one on the side of a trail with a dead fuel pump, or not to buy KTM's because I find them less reliable than the Japanese bikes.

I won't turn this into any more of an arguement thatn it has already become. I would like to point out, however, that once again you have made a statement without the facts.

My bike does not have a low fender, nor fuel injection, nor ABS, nor catalytic converters.

The whole debate as to whether my bike can go on the pictured trail is neither her nor there.

A dead fuel pump and you (or the bike owner) had to leave it? Oye! All vehicles have known problems. The fuel pump is one such problem piece on a 950 (so is the water pump impeller shaft on the earlier ones). And... so... what's the big deal? I have one in the tail section. It would take me longer to get it unpacked than to swap it.

Now, the fact that it is a mutha to bump start and does not have a kick start... that is another story.

 

[traveltoad]

I guess that all depends on who was riding it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6TYxgocZfo

Agreed, but I really hate those arguements.

 

[traveltoad]

I don't feel the need to belittle you our your choice in bikes just because mine is more capable off-road, or maybe I've been driving off-road bikes longer than you at about 25 years? And you don't see me in the Adventure Motorcycle forum telling people not to buy 950's because I had to leave one on the side of a trail with a dead fuel pump, or not to buy KTM's because I find them less reliable than the Japanese bikes.

Just out of curiosity... how long do you think I have been riding motos off-road?

 

[muskyman]

Agreed, but I really hate those arguements.

Oh I agree but I had to post that video...some brutal riding there!

 

[Mike_rupp]

).


As a generalisation (and not an entirely fair one, I concede), this is not your discussion style. You routinely ridicule or dismiss those who question your judgement, or express alternative views, and even more so, if they slip up and make a factual error. Every thread seems to become an effort to persuade or coerce a specific conclusion. I'm not going to trawl back for examples, nor do I expect you to accept my criticism, although I would hope that you might at least consider to what extent it's true.

I did think long and hard before posting this - and the reason I decided to go ahead is that recently all too many threads have ended up in this kind of pointless bickering over minutiae, and it's actually killing the forum.

Regards,

Michael

Guilty as charged. Through trial and error, I have learned a few things that I believe to be true, such as correcting caster / pinion on a D1. It is hard for me to understand how someone can disagree when I truly see it as a simple truth.

You must admit however, that I don't simply just throw out a conclusion out there and ask people to take it as gospel. In the caster correction thread, we went on for pages of the reasoning behind the conclusion.

Another thing that you have to concede is that the ridiculing isn't simply from my side. When Rob brings up Discoweb, it is nothing more than a personal attack. How does the fact that I post on Discoweb have any bearing on a discussion here?

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I won't turn this into any more of an arguement thatn it has already become. I would like to point out, however, that once again you have made a statement without the facts.

My bike does not have a low fender, nor fuel injection, nor ABS, nor catalytic converters.

The whole debate as to whether my bike can go on the pictured trail is neither her nor there.

A dead fuel pump and you (or the bike owner) had to leave it? Oye! All vehicles have known problems. The fuel pump is one such problem piece on a 950 (so is the water pump impeller shaft on the earlier ones). And... so... what's the big deal? I have one in the tail section. It would take me longer to get it unpacked than to swap it.

Now, the fact that it is a mutha to bump start and does not have a kick start... that is another story.

You're right, I didn't look closely enough at your sig, thought it was an Adventure, not a Super Enduro.

You're right the debate is neither here nor there, that's why I didn't make it. My point was trying to draw a parallel to the conclusions here being made about the LR3's trail ability. The point still stands. You'd have a hard time arguing that your bike is as capable or reliable as an XR400, but you don't see me in the motorcycle forum telling you to buy one. My WR250 has no known problems, yet I've never tried to tell somebody else that anything else is junk.

Yes, we had to leave it. You can't push a 500+lb bike out of a trail. Had to come back and get it with a truck.

I guess that all depends on who was riding it

Yeah, Gio Sala is on another plane of existence. Here he is helping my friend Kevin at the WEC in Parry Sound. Kevin was knackered after hours of non-stop riding, and Gio helped him out. And Musky, you might be happy to note he was wearing Crocs no less! :Wow1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvOUYirRCVQ

Just out of curiosity... how long do you think I have been riding motos off-road?

Not a clue, I assumed nothing. Notice the question mark.

Another thing that you have to concede is that the ridiculing isn't simply from my side. When Rob brings up Discoweb, it is nothing more than a personal attack. How does the fact that I post on Discoweb have any bearing on a discussion here?

I just finished explaining this, admitted my error, and said I'll stop. If only everybody could do the same, we could end this.

 

[michaelgroves]

You must admit however, that I don't simply just throw out a conclusion out there and ask people to take it as gospel. In the caster correction thread, we went on for pages of the reasoning behind the conclusion.

Absolutely - I remember the thread well. That's why I say your knowledge is not in dispute.

Another thing that you have to concede is that the ridiculing isn't simply from my side. When Rob brings up Discoweb, it is nothing more than a personal attack. How does the fact that I post on Discoweb have any bearing on a discussion here?

Also conceded. I suspect Rob feels a bit skaam about that too!

 

[michaelgroves]

I guess that all depends on who was riding it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6TYxgocZfo

Nice video Many years ago, when I lived in SA, our Land Rover Club was asked to act as sweep vehicles for the Roof of Africa Rally. Exciting stuff - not only did we get to see some of the most exciting rallying in the world, but also recovered quite a few rolled cars and bikes from way down the sides of mountains. Back in those days, the Sani Pass hairpins had most of the 109s having to reverse at each bend!

 

[michaelgroves]

Oops.. have we gone off topic here?

What was the original question again?
:xxrotflma

 

[traveltoad]

My point was trying to draw a parallel to the conclusions here being made about the LR3's trail ability. .

I actually think the parallel is a good one.