LR3 rock crawling carnage

[WillBeck]

D

Those are nice but seem basically irrelevant on an LR3/4 due to it's suspension and chassis design without going full custom with new upper and lower control arms as well as many other parts.

As soon as you rip out the EAS on an lr3, there's almost no point in using the platform without a redo of the entire suspension. Might as well start with a proper 4x4 chassis.

It would be cool but I just don't ever seeing there being a "kit".

There are reasons why you see the Toyota Land Cruiser and the Lexus LX 570 in the Baja races, customized for long suspension travel, but no LR3/4. I don't think the rest of the components are up to the task.

Those Foxes are nearly identical to the kit linked, however much better quality, and obviously not adapted to a Land Rover.

Land Crusiers and 570's are used in stock full classes, but are extremely ruggedized aka not much stock anything left. An LR3's short wheelbase would be at a disadvantage, but I would imagine the relative rarity of parts, plus a complex and expensive starting chassis all contribute to it not being used by Baja racing teams.

 

[Ray_G]

Based off what I've read on various forums (UK, AUS, & a little SA stuff) it would seem that from an overlanding perspective the coil sprung S or base model is perfectly fine. What I've seen thus far on my coil converted truck lends to that viewpoint.

This of course brings up the idea of intended application-i.e. how much hard core four wheeling are you doing vice long haul remote travel. Fox coilovers would be interesting but I'm not sure they'd be that much value over the OME setup or King, etc.

 

[dsm02c]

What do you mean "ever" ? http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/L319SRK-OME

Not even close to what I would hope for on these trucks... Would love to see someone like icon, King, or fox make a system for the LR4... I'm jealous of the yota guys that get nice suspension systems as bolt on components.

A $70,000 truck deserves a better suspension...

 

[Ray_G]

Not even close to what I would hope for on these trucks... Would love to see someone like icon, King, or fox make a system for the LR4... I'm jealous of the yota guys that get nice suspension systems as bolt on components.

A $70,000 truck deserves a better suspension...

I think many would say that the 70k truck starts out with a damn good suspension (EAS, or otherwise) and that the aftermarket support for Toyota may be trying to get their product line into the same ballpark as what Rover comes out of the factory with. I have never been impressed by stock Toyota suspension and am amazed at the amount of $$$ Toyota folks throw at their trucks when you start talking about icon and such. Say what you want about LR/RR, out of the box their suspension and associated systems make for a capable platform that you don't have to spend money on past decent tires to get to perform well, & I have found that to be true across decades of vehicles.

Moreover my experience has been the more $$$ you throw at components for your suspension results often in compromises, i.e. it may be great at certain facets of offroad while sacrificing ride quality significantly. Pushing the envelope may be worthwhile for niche applications, but for a vehicle that has to perform across a wide range of activities reliably and consistently while also not giving up comfort I think that the more you deviate from stock the less you get in return-at least as it relates to Rovers. At least that's my experience and $.02.
r-
Ray

 

[dsm02c]

I think the EAS is fine, when I was new to LR with my LR3, I thought it was really cool, now in my LR4 and having more experience, and especially experience in other makes with their aftermarket support it has opened my eyes...

Not going to jump ship as there isn't a better combination of luxury, capability, history as Land Rover (sorry, new 200 series feels like an expensive Camry inside) but I would love some options from aftermarket, especially considering the 60-80k service life of lower control arms and other general suspension maladies.

As others have stated in this thread they feel the LR3/4 is under damped, a twin tube shock is just never going to keep up with a monotube external bypass, again considering the cost of OE replacement parts, I know it's Land Rover and it will never happen, but a guy can dream...

 

[zelatore]

Sorry to be MIA - I was out over the weekend at Hollister for the NCLR annual event.

*no damage to the truck*

I am running 3/4" spacers from Motorsport Tech, but have only had them on for a couple of trips. About a month now. I do not think they were the cause of this failure, particularly given the minimal amount of use they've had. Why am I running them? Curiosity mostly. I ran this tire w/o them fine but wanted to experiment with them. While they do give me more clearance at the upper front ball joint to sidewall, they also introduce a tiny bit of rubbing at full lock on the inner rear frame. (I've seen this exact problem with LR4s when running spacers to clear LR3 wheels) I haven't actually been able to hear/feel this, but I have seen the rub mark on the frame. This can be attributed to the increased swing radius caused by the spacers. I do like the 'look' and would probably continue to run them as they give me back my lost track width due to running lifted, but I doubt I will be able to with the larger tires I plan to move to in a few weeks.

I _WAS NOT_ running the proud rhino spacer kit. I have purchased it but have not yet installed it. I haven't had a free weekend since it arrived to do the work, and I'm planning to do some other stuff at the same time. I'm waiting until I get back from the WNLRR in Sedona to embark on this project.

 

[zelatore]

I realize I did not address all the questions/concerns in my last post.

Was the wheel in the air a lot? Uhhhh, not more than normal, but given the limited amount of travel on an LR3, lifting a tire is a pretty common occurrence. I'd say pretty much EVERY time I hit the trail I'm playing tricycle part of the time.

And I did have a look at the other side to see if I could spot any cracks - I did not find any, though I did not remove the strut entirely to inspect it I just put the eyeball on it as best I could with the wheel off and the strut still bolted to the LCA.

It's hard to judge the condition of the strut based on the pictures or the tear in the bellows. It had been bashed pretty good by the time the pic was taken, plus of course I've used it on numerous trails this year already. At this point I'm going to chalk this up to a one-off failure due to hard trail use and put the new Arnott/Bilstien strut back on when it arrives. Should I find another failure I'll have to assume the Arnott is the fault but for now I'll give them a second chance; particularly since they are warrantying it.

I leave tomorrow for Sedona and the WNLRR. We'll see if I break anything there. I'm not planning on anything very extreme; all their 'difficult' trails are actually very modest and I think I've done all of them before so I don't anticipate any issues. I am leading a couple of our guys up Back Way to Crown King on Wednesday en-route, but from past experience any difficult spots on that trail have easy bypasses so again, no anticipated trouble.

 

[perkj]

Good to hear the proud rhino kit wasn't a factor here. thanks for responding to that question!

 

[zelatore]

Over the last week I've been on the road/trail to the WNLRR in Sedona. Along the way I took a few of our group up Back Way to Crown King....and since I wasn't traveling alone this time I made a point of taking all the hard lines (of course).

A couple videos of a DII following in my footsteps. Actually, on these particular climbs the LR3 may have done it easier than the DII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D53nBKZ3Rac

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePMiSfSmoWw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QFUATcay6w

All went well until I tried an even longer/harder climb and beached the whale quite firmly on a ledge. Managed to cut a sidewall as well. It took 2 Discos to drag me off since I was just pulling the first one down the hill toward me. Of course no pics.

The reason I bring this up? Although I didn't have any problems that day, the next I took off to run an easy trail (Smiley Rock out of Jerome, AZ) and along the way started hearing a disturbing clunk from the rear. A quick inspection revealed the problem: Snapped the upper driver's rear control arm at the forward bushing eye.


(the eye was still in place, this pic is after I started the disassemble)



Looking closely at the fracture, you can see some old and some new. Clearly this was cracked for some time prior to the complete failure.



After finding the damage I limped it back to camp and was able to get in contact with a local AZLRO club member who was coming up from the Phoenix area and was able to a new control arm from LR Scottsdale for me. I'm afraid I don't recall his name, but big thanks to him! The actual repair wasn't too bad and I had it up and running that night.

The moral of this story is if you bang a heavy rig around in the rocks you should expect to break stuff. And PM is important, so get under your rig and look for signs of cracks!

 

[JAK]

How long have you been running poly bushings? Just one more thing to worry about now! Good to here that you were able to get a replacement so quickly.

 

[A.J.M]

I threw my old arms away when those bushes were worn.

I went for RRS arms as they have a different bush design.

I'm still blaming the driver... *ducks and runs away*

 

[zelatore]

The poly bushes have been in for about a year now. Better than stock? Eh...not sure. When I did them my stock rears were pretty much peanut butter and I wanted something firmer to help stiffen up the on-road ride. They did help there but since the stockers were poor to begin with I can't say how much. The trade off is when running on washboard where our short sidewalls already provide more vibration than you'd want. There I wish I was still running the squishy stockers.

I can't say I blame the poly's for the failure. More likely AJM is onto something....

 

[XJLI]

Wow, thats some lame-*** stamped steel. Are the RRS arms beefier? Or just beefier bushings?

 

[zelatore]

Can't say I know - anybody care to post up a pic of the RRS arms?

My guess would be the arms are the same but the bushings might be firmer. I'm basing this on the LR3 having more cargo room and being more likely to carry a load while the RRS is more road biased and likely to be driven in a sporting fashion.

 

[zelatore]

I have actually, but not enough to research part numbers or the differences in spec. It would seem that the armored version must be heavier, so perhaps closer in weight to what we run with all our rock armor. Possibly the struts would be better damped as well to cope with the higher spring (air) pressures needed to reach correct ride height. And a corresponding strength increase in bushings, control arms, etc would of course make sense as well.

I don't even know if the parts would be available on this side of the pond or if they would have to be shipped in from the motherland. But it is an intriguing idea.