MAN LE180C double cab for a long family trip

[Ford Prefect]

One of the considerations I have recently thought of with the shower would be that if you are careful in your location of the shower you can drop the basin of the shower below the level of the frame. The box that I am looking at using is ten feet tall, so my thought is that if I put the shower outside of the frame rails I can drop the floor (in the shower) by six inches. This gives me 6'11" clearance in the shower and I can still fit a bed with three feet of clearance above the shower. I do not know how wide your frame rails are going to be, but could you drop the shower in below the frame level between the rails? IE if you are going to put the shower in the pass through?

That extra six inches gives you alot of space over the shower. By the way, I am just shy of six and a half feet tall, so, obviously I like a tall shower otherwise I could not really use it.

just my thoughts.

 

[Itinerrant]

Shower

Hello,

Thank you for your message !

you can drop the basin of the shower below the level of the frame.

IMHO, this may seem a better idea in theory than it is in reality, for some reasons :

• between the trucks chassis and the cell, there is often a subframe allowing for some flexiblity on rough terrain, and there will probably be a fixation point just near the shower (i.e. in front of the cell) ;
• there's the problem of water evacuation : if your shower basin is already lower than the cell floor, then the waste water tank has to be even lower, otherwise the water will stay in the basin (or you have to let it flow directly to the ground...) ; this is why we chose not to lower it, but to raise it in order to be able to have a double floor where the waste water tank will fit (if the waste water tank is outside the cell, it is more difficult to make it freeze-proof) ;
• in our truck, the cell floor will be 90mm thick, so if you want to avoid structural weaknesses and thermal bridges, you should have the same thickness around each side of the lowered basin (I don't know if I make myself clear) ; that would certainly be more difficult to build (therefore more costly) and to fit between the rails.

These are only my thoughts and they are directly related to the particular case of my design and truck ; things may obviously be different for your build ! Anyway, thank you again for sharing your thoughts

 

[Ford Prefect]

I still hesitate to put windows along the children's beds. Of course they will have light out of LED lamps but it's not the same as sunlight and I think you're probably right about getting claustrophobic. I'll think about it. Maybe we won't put the windows at first and then check during our first year of short trips whether it is ok or not. I think it wouldn't be impossible to put the windows after (even if it would surely be harder).

Thanks so much for answering my thoughts, I apreciate your time. Another plug for the windows, if you make them small enough that, say, your wife could not pass through them, then I think you would find they work well for you.

Further, at the level that those windows would be, perhaps not for the lowest bed, but certainly for the upper two, they would be very difficult to get into from the outside due to the height they would be. The top one would be well over 3m off the ground, and the middle bunk well over 2m if I am seeing it right.

I have also been told in the past that using a very small simple bar system (such as a cage a dog would be in) would be more than enough of a deterrent that most would not bother trying to break in as they would assume it would take too long to get through the bars. One couple even said theirs were not even bolted on, just hanging from hooks, but you could not tell that from the outside.

Well I love this truck, it will be very neat to watch! If my wife and I ever manage to get a job in Europe I will most certainly look into buying one of these things.

One of the Unicats I have seen, they took the back see of the cab and made it possible to convert that into a bed for guests as well. Super stuff.

Thanks again
Brian

 

[Ford Prefect]

Hello,

Thank you for your message !


IMHO, this may seem a better idea in theory than it is in reality, for some reasons :

• between the trucks chassis and the cell, there is often a subframe allowing for some flexiblity on rough terrain, and there will probably be a fixation point just near the shower (i.e. in front of the cell) ;
• there's the problem of water evacuation : if your shower basin is already lower than the cell floor, then the waste water tank has to be even lower, otherwise the water will stay in the basin (or you have to let it flow directly to the ground...) ; this is why we chose not to lower it, but to raise it in order to be able to have a double floor where the waste water tank will fit (if the waste water tank is outside the cell, it is more difficult to make it freeze-proof) ;
• in our truck, the cell floor will be 90mm thick, so if you want to avoid structural weaknesses and thermal bridges, you should have the same thickness around each side of the lowered basin (I don't know if I make myself clear) ; that would certainly be more difficult to build (therefore more costly) and to fit between the rails.

Wow, yeah, Ok I see what you are saying.

My thought with the shower was to put it much closer to the axle, so there would be room lower without compromising the off road nature of the truck, for the tank. In your case, that would certainly be difficult.

The flex of the frame I have not considered either. The trucks that I am considering have almost zero flex (a friend did his and it had less than an inch of flex over a twenty foot span of the frame) so I do not need to worry so much about that. Do the MAN trucks have a bit of flex in them? Certainly nothing like the Unimog I should think, no?

 

[Jago]

The trucks that I am considering have almost zero flex

That's unusual for larger off road capable trucks...
I know the Tatra has this trait but hadn't heard of others....:ylsmoke:

Some good points as usual Itinerrant - got me thinking about the underside of my cabin - how to keep the tanks freeze proof and keeping the cabin fairly self contained (in case of removal later) but also whilst using as much space within the chassis to keep weight as low as possible! (Are you plnning on putting much between/around or below the chassis rails?

Cheers
Jago

 

[Itinerrant]

Flexibility

Do the MAN trucks have a bit of flex in them? Certainly nothing like the Unimog I should think, no?

Did you mean flexibility ?

I will post pictures of my own truck chassis flex as soon as I make some.

 

[Itinerrant]

Chassis equipment

Hello,

Are you plnning on putting much between/around or below the chassis rails?

Just the usual stuff I guess :

• stairs for the access to the living space
• fuel tanks for a total of ca. 400 liters
• a box for the diesel generator (will take its fuel from the main tank)
• a box for outside cooking (grill / barbecue)
• maybe a box for the air conditioning if we decide to get one

Do you think of something else ?

 

[Itinerrant]

Detailed plans : 1. double floors

Hello everybody,

Many thanks for all the advices, insights and shared thoughts.

While reviewing the global design, I realized that it was difficult to figure out each element individually, so I decided to go into separate drawings for them. I guess it will make discussions with the builder easier and will also help discovering and preventing potential technical issues. So the next series of posts will be dedicated to each of those elements.

First part : the double floors, as it is the basis upon which eveything else will be built.

View from the rear-right side :


View from the front-left side :


A few words about usages and dimensions :

• Main cell floor is 9cm thick.
• Double floors are 30cm high (with a floor of 2cm, there is 28cm high of free space left).
• Front double floor will be used to store the grey water tank (for the shower and bathroom sink), some space for the shoes (near the entrance door) and the batteries (underneath the bunk beds).
• Rear double floor will (partly) hold the fresh water tank, probably the lift-up mechanism for the bed, and some other technical stuff I suppose.

Any comment welcome.

 

[Itinerrant]

Detailed plans : 2. kitchen

Hello everybody,

Second part : the kitchen. :chef:

View from the front :


View from the rear :


A few explanations :

• There is a small folding table in the main entrance to extend the countertop at the left of the cooktop.
• At the left of the countertop, there is the cooktop (of induction type), with two cooking zones (there will be a switch to turn it completely off to avoid unnecessary energy consumption).
• Above the cooktop is a ventilation hood (electrical).
• Under the cooktop is a cupboard ; it is designed large, high and deep enough to hold a washing machine if we decide to get one (then its shelving would be removed).
• At the right of the countertop, there is a double sink, with a retractable spout mixer and a separate tap for drinking water.
• Under the sink are a colum of three drawers and a cupboard.
• The waste water tank (for the kitchen sink) will be located in the small dinette double floor.
• Over the coutertop is a row of three large cupboards.

Any comment welcome.

 

[Itinerrant]

Detailed plans : 3. dinettes

Hello everybody,

Third part : the dinettes

View from the rear-right :


View from the rear-left :


A few explanations :

• The designs are presented without the stand-over bed for clarity. Only the bed frame is visible.
• Under the inner rails of the frame bed, there will be LED lighting for each dinette.
• Storage under the rear bench will be accessible from outside.
• Tables can be lowered independently to allow for additional sleeping (see below).
• Tabletop from the small dinette is doubled and hinged (on the inner / passage side), as is the horizontal part of the small bench, so that they can unfold to join (exact fit) the big dinette tabletop and bench (either in high or low position, to have one big table or one big bed).
• Cushions are designed to fit the tables when they are lowered, to serve as mattress.
• There are three panoramic windows of 1500x400mm.

View of the lowered tables from the rear-right :


View of the lowered tables from the rear-left :


Any comment welcome.

 

[Itinerrant]

Detailed plans : 4. bed

Hello everybody,

Fourth part : the bed

The main bed will stand above the dinettes. It will have two main positions :

1. Raised

Bed raised - view from the rear-right :


Bed raised - view from the rear-left :


2. Lowered

Bed lowered - view from the rear-right :


Bed lowered - view from the rear-left :


A few explanations :

• There will be an intermediate position to allow enough headroom when guests are also sleeping on the dinettes.
• Lift-up system will be discussed with the builder to find the best solution.
• At the feet side of the bed, there are three small cupboards (top opening).

Any comment welcome.

 

[Itinerrant]

Detailed plans : 5. cupboards, fridge and oven

Hello everybody,

Fifth part : cupboards, fridge and oven :chowtime:

View from the right :


View from the left :


A few explanations :

• On the left, there is a small cupboard on top, a wardrobe (to hang coats) in the middle, and another cupboard at the bottom (maybe used for technical stuff)
• On the right, there is space for the fridge, then (above) the oven (micro-wave + pulsed air + grill), then (above) another cupboard.

Any comment welcome.

 

[Ford Prefect]

As always, wonderful.

Thanks for the photo of the Man frame flex, wow, that is certainly more than I had considered.

I know that somewhere along the lines the European disigners went with a flexable frame, but very few trucks in the USA have any flex at all. If you think about Jay Shapiro's Eco Roamer, he showed a photo with the rear wheel off the ground and there was less than (if I recall accurately) 1/3 inch of flex in twenty feet of frame.

Anyhow, very interesting stuff.

I enjoyed the exploded veiws, thanks.

Brian

 

[Itinerrant]

Detailed plans : 6. bunk beds (children)

Hello everybody,

Merry Christmas to all of you ! :wavey:

Sixth part : bunk beds (for the children)

View from the front :


View from the rear :


A few explanations :

• Total size of the bunk beds is 2000mm x 800mm.
• Size is reduced to 1600mm x 700mm while the children are still small to allow for more storage space (during the big travel).
• So there is a cupboard at the end of each bed for their clothes and other stuff (like school books, toys, etc.) and a four-divided space along their beds to put little things like game consoles, etc., that they want to be easily accessible.
• All of this shelving will be removable to get back to the original bed size.
• Lighting will be provided by individual LED lamps.
• Each bed will be equipped with 12V and 220V outlets.
• The ladder is integrated.
• Each bed space can be isolated with a curtain.
• Each bed space has it own window.
  

Any comment welcome.

 

[Victorian]

Good to see that you changed your mind about the windows for the bunk beds.
I think in general you are on the right track with the layout! Little details like the storage compartments in each bunk will make a big difference.

Well done, keep the pics coming :sombrero: