MAN LE180C double cab for a long family trip

[Itinerrant]

Detailed plans : 7. bathroom

Hello everybody,

Seventh part : the bathroom :snorkel:

View from the front-right :


View from the front-left :


View from the outside (sliding doors closed) :


View from the outside (shower open) :


View from the outside (toilet open) :


A few explanations :

• Shower size is ca. 90cm x 70cm.
• Shower serves as passage to truck's cabin.
• This passage can be closed and sealed.
• Shower space and toilet space can be used indepently, each having its own sliding door.
• Waste water tanks for shower, sink and toilet will fit into the double floor.
• Showerhead and faucets will be placed taking passage door into account (still to be decided).
• Shower base will have two outlets to allow for proper water evacuation on uneven ground.
• Shower space and toilet space will be separated by a door if possible, otherwise a curtain.
• Toilet will be of porcelain and vacuum type.
• Above the toilet is a small cupboard.
• Aeration will be provided through the roof for both shower and toilet spaces.
• There will also be a small cupboard under the sink.

Any comment welcome.

 

[Itinerrant]

Detailed plans : 8. box

Hello everybody,

Eighth and last part : the box

View from the rear-right :


View from the rear-left :


View from the front-left :


View from the front-right :


A few explanations :

• The box has been drawn with the double floor design as a basis, so there is nothing else in it (there's no furniture when you look through the windows).
• On the right side, there is the entry door with a lamp above it ; the kitchen window and one of the living area window ; and an awning.
• There will also be an access for the outside shower (place still to be decided), and probably for the fresh water tank fill ; there will also be the ventilation for the kitchen's hood.
• On the rear side, there is the second window of the living area window ; and an access to the storage under the dinettes bench.
• There may also be a frame for bicycles or other stuff between the top of the storage door and the bottom of the window, and also some lighting.
• On the left side, there is the third window of the living area window ; and the windows for the bunk beds.
• There will also be the ventilation for the fridge.
• On the front side, there is the access to the truck cabin (width is correct, but height will be adjusted regarding the truck cabin).
• On the top side, there is space for solar panels, aeration for the bathroom and a big window (allows access to the roof from inside the cell).
• On the bottom side, there is... nothing.
• Corners of the cell will be reinforced with aluminium.

Any comment welcome.

 

[Victorian]

Will the Awning be flush mounted? What type/brand of windows will you be using? Are the panels fiberglass/foam/fiberglass? Will they be just glued or glued and screwed together? Will there be a sliding door to separate the box from the drivers cab?

Cheers,
Andreas

 

[Kohburn]

having a venting window at each bunk is a good idea. makes the space much more livable.

 

[mike002]

Greetings to everyone!
I'm not a traveler; just a motorhome/compact space design enthusiast.
Itinerrant, I really admire your floorplan for accommodating an entire family in such a reasonably-sized box. Many solutions, such as the dropping master bed, are much more advanced than scores of other designs I've seen!

You say you welcome comments, so a few humble ideas of mine in regards to your plan:

1. The entrance the each individual child bunk might prove bit cramped. An easy remedy is removing the integrated ladder; instead building a ladder onto the "future leg room" storage doors (obviously hinge reinforcement is due then). Or just having a permanent ladder there while the gaps between steps are used to access the storage. Also, I'd advise extending the ladder to the ceiling, allowing an easier climb and entrance to the top-most bunk.

2. You mentioned what you plan to include in the frame area. Are gas bottles accounted for in the design (for the stove)?

3. You've raised security as a concern when placing windows at the children bunks. So let me suggest the following: make the windows in your CADs non-opening (and possibly barred as suggested here). Secondary ventilation ports could be added to each bunk level on the front box wall, facing the gap between the cab's back and the boxe's front.
The gap is narrow and concealed enough as to not attracked intruders.

Happy new year, everyone!

 

[whatcharterboat]

Itinerrant, Awesome project. Very keen to follow what's happening.
We had a LE in our workshop recently . A single cab though and the body was professionally made in Switzerland.

It was in for a full suspension upgrade as the original shocks and springs had died on the corrugations over in Africa somewhere.

LE aren't imported into Australia anymore but we are always a little envious of them. Very nice truck and a much more suitable size for Australia than the the bigger TGM. Many of the tracks here only ever see Landcruiser-type traffic so the higher, wider and longer you are , the less tracks you will have access to (in Oz anyway).

We built a crewcab TGM last year if you're interested in seeing some pics. I think they're posted in another section so some of the guys may have seen them before but not sure if you had and it's definitely different to the typical Euro type trucks you would be used to seeing ........................ For a family of 5 + to go on shorter holidays in (as opposed to permanent touring). The roof will lift 1200kg so you can winch a decent sized boat up on top. The galley and bathroom are at the back half with an outside shower and kitchen as well.

Good luck with yours. Looks like you're putting plenty of thought into the design. Not easy to come up with a workable floor plan for a family that is still compact enough to fit in the available chassis space of a crewcab.

 

[Ford Prefect]

make the windows in your CADs non-opening (and possibly barred as suggested here). Secondary ventilation ports could be added to each bunk level on the front box wall, facing the gap between the cab's back and the boxe's front.
The gap is narrow and concealed enough as to not attracked intruders.

That is a slick idea.

I have seen people use some pretty simple bars for the windows, even such that could be place easily in front of an opening window, but I like the idea of ventilations between the cab and box. I wonder, however, how much ventilation you would get without having to put a fan in that vent opening. (which is not too hard, but it takes power and one more thing to break down etc.)

On the topic of bunks. IF You put in that vent I would recommend being certain that you can put your head down by that vent and work for, say, two hours without being overly uncomfortable. Be sure you can roll around in there, room for the arms, etc. Just in case something goes wrong. My old jeep, the only way I can work on the stuff behind the steering wheel is to lay on my back on the driver's seat, with my feet up in the air, and my head and shoulders hanging off the seat. It is extremely uncomfortable, and makes it very hard to work under there when trying to trouble shoot something that has broken.



Hey whatcharterboat, very interesting camper you have there! (I know, not yours)

 

[grizzlyj]

Hi

The effort you've put into those CAD pics is great, thank you!

The Opensens family linked to earlier travelled as a four, (and then as a five!), for several years in a U2150L38 Doka Mog, so the rear cabin is smaller than perhaps most would like for a family. But in the brief email exchange I had with them they essentially said it was no big deal at all since they lived outside during the day, inside at night. Where they went didn't require inside living, and timed with warmer seasons may mean a big truck while on a trip could be overkill? Add a bit of cold though and different rules apply!

http://opensens.com/photounimog.htm

http://opensens.com/unimog.htm

Their table sliding out from under the bed and occupying the walk through but still allowing kitchen use is very good I think. The only thing he said they would change is build an outside kitchen. (Layout below)

Ian U1250 is avoiding a Doka by having his kids seated and belted in the camper which saves wheelbase

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37349

Our "small" 2 person camper Mog has one whole cubic metre of outside stuff storage. This is really too small. We have minimal spares for the chassis and camper parts, lifting gear for the tyres, tools, wooden blocks, bbq & petrol stove for outside cooking, flexy sand mats, engine filters, hosereel, two comfy chairs and table, and half of the very handy Littlegiant ladder, the other half living between body and (empty) bike rack above the tyres, reached by standing on the first bit of itself! We initially carried bikes, but at the height they were getting them on and off was a real pain!

http://www.littlegiantladder.com/little-giant/type-1aa.html

We now also have a frontbumper box with 5 jerrycans on it making 8 in total, petrol, 2 diesel, 2 water, oil for gearbox, axles and engine. An oil change is about 15l, so 20 gives top up between changes. Bumper mounted means a straight siphon into the engine without moving the 20l can. It passed the UK MOT with it in place, but noone can tell me if its totally legal! It does help to balance the 250kg of tyres and the 150+kg rack holding the tyres up so far back on the chassis! The rest of the chassis rails are full of starter batteries, 3 standard Mog tanks, exhaust and black and grey waste tanks.

What range do you want from your diesel capacity? 1000km on tarmac?

Our windows are about 9' or so up, which is OK until you think if someone wants to try to get in they only need to stand on a car roof. Natural light is good though!

Waste or diesel tanks could certainly go between chassis rails, and I think Unicat have a lowered door step incorporating a shower? No idea how it drains though! Do Unicat do buckets?!

Further to the suggestion of extending the bunk access ladder to the ceiling, again from the Unicat site, they have what looks like a floor to ceiling radiator with horizontal rungs under a roof hatch big enough to climb out of, so presumably you could make the rad strong enough to climb up and out on?

We have a shower/toilet room, which although entirely plywood is kept dry enough by a shower curtain! I wonder in use wether throwing muddy stuff into a shower room which you then want to enter barefoot and naked is a nice idea, unless you use a lot of water washing the room before you?!

How high will your truck end up do you think? Ours at 4m/13' is too tall for Europe really, and have yet to take it anywhere else!

Lastly, I don't think that for a long trip speed is an issue. A few thousand miles to cross to Africa? Take a week or two!

Happy travels, and New Year!

Jason

 

[Itinerrant]

That's it for now !

Hello everybody,

Happy new year to all of you ! :wavey:

The eighth part (about the box) closes for now this series of posts dedicated to the detailed plans of our project. Many thanks to those of you who took the time to share their thoughts, ideas and questions ; it is very helpful. I'll try to answer ASAP.

In the meantime, people interested can see a consolidated view of all the details on the dedicated page of our blog. If someone can see some utility in having the Sketchup files that I created to produce the designs, please feel free to contact me either by PM or via this link ; I will be glad to send them.

Next step : I have a meeting with the builder on January 15th, and I'm looking forward to this because it will be the occasion to show and furthermore challenge the designs and to discuss all the questions that have aroused (some of them thanks to you !).

Of course I will keep you informed.

 

[Itinerrant]

Hello,

Will the Awning be flush mounted?

I would like to, but I don't know whether it will be possible.

What type/brand of windows will you be using?

These ones probably : KC Technik. Awfully expensive but probably the best ones available.

Are the panels fiberglass/foam/fiberglass?

Yes : GRP (or GFK in German) 3 mm - wood - polyurethane foam - wood - GFK ; 60 mm for the walls and ceiling, 90 mm for the floor.

Will they be just glued or glued and screwed together?

Glued and screwed.

Will there be a sliding door to separate the box from the drivers cab?

More probably a normal door (same material and insulation as the whole box).

 

[Victorian]

Hello,

I would like to, but I don't know whether it will be possible.

--You are right, 6cm wall thickness wont be enough... --


These ones probably : KC Technik. Awfully expensive but probably the best ones available.

--Looks like they copied Unicats design... but they look great!--


Yes : GRP (or GFK in German) 3 mm - wood - polyurethane foam - wood - GFK ; 60 mm for the walls and ceiling, 90 mm for the floor.

--Perfect!---


Glued and screwed.

--Don't like the screw part... with the right glue, screws shouldn't be needed...--

More probably a normal door (same material and insulation as the whole box).

--was just wondering :ylsmoke:--

Thanks for your answers!

 

[Itinerrant]

Hello,

Itinerrant, I really admire your floorplan for accommodating an entire family in such a reasonably-sized box. Many solutions, such as the dropping master bed, are much more advanced than scores of other designs I've seen!

Thank you ! Well, the aim is to make every inch available either useful or enjoyable... Preferably both !

The entrance the each individual child bunk might prove bit cramped.

Actually it is 51 cm wide for the two first bunks, 66 cm for the upper one. What do you think would be a sufficient width ?

An easy remedy is removing the integrated ladder; instead building a ladder onto the "future leg room" storage doors (obviously hinge reinforcement is due then). Or just having a permanent ladder there while the gaps between steps are used to access the storage.

Hmmm... maybe. But then it would protrude (a bit) in the living space, and I would have to redesign another ladder when the storage will be removed.

Also, I'd advise extending the ladder to the ceiling, allowing an easier climb and entrance to the top-most bunk.

Well I would have thought it would be easier to climb in without the ladder to the top... I checked the bunk beds commercially available and none had their ladder go up to the ceiling...
Anyway, thanks for the suggestion, I'll ask my daughter : if extending the ladder to the ceiling is easier for her, I guess it will not difficult to make it so.

2. You mentioned what you plan to include in the frame area. Are gas bottles accounted for in the design (for the stove)?

No, as gas is not required. We will live out of water and diesel
Stove will be of induction type, fridge will run on electricity only, heating and warm water will come from a diesel heating system. Electricity will be provided from solar panels / generator / alternator.

3. You've raised security as a concern when placing windows at the children bunks. So let me suggest the following: make the windows in your CADs non-opening (and possibly barred as suggested here). Secondary ventilation ports could be added to each bunk level on the front box wall, facing the gap between the cab's back and the boxe's front.
The gap is narrow and concealed enough as to not attracked intruders

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll think about it. In the designs, the height of the bunk beds windows is only 20 cm, so I guess not that many people could get into the truck this way... Perhaps did you think of another kind of attack ?

Again, many thanks for taking the time to give your advice, I appreciate ! :wavey:

 

[Itinerrant]

Hello,

Very keen to follow what's happening.

Thank you !

We had a LE in our workshop recently . A single cab though and the body was professionally made in Switzerland.

Nice truck ! Any website ?

It was in for a full suspension upgrade as the original shocks and springs had died on the corrugations over in Africa somewhere.

Well maybe we will ask you the same one day if we get there...

Many of the tracks here only ever see Landcruiser-type traffic so the higher, wider and longer you are , the less tracks you will have access to (in Oz anyway).

Yes, I guess it's the same almost anywhere. That's a concern for us so we wouldn't have bought a bigger truck.

We built a crewcab TGM last year if you're interested in seeing some pics. I think they're posted in another section so some of the guys may have seen them before but not sure if you had

Yes, of course I had, awesome truck ! But as you stated, more adapted for family holidays than for a long living. Anyway, inspiring, great ideas and build quality apparently !

Looks like you're putting plenty of thought into the design. Not easy to come up with a workable floor plan for a family that is still compact enough to fit in the available chassis space of a crewcab.

Yes, that was exactly the challenge. But design is one thing, then it has to take shape in reality... Then you see all the mistakes you've made !

 

[Itinerrant]

Windows and safety

Hello,

I have seen people use some pretty simple bars for the windows, even such that could be place easily in front of an opening window

The KCT windows we are planning to put can be equipped with a pretty sleek safety plate, check it here. It seems easy to install even alone and from the inside of the cell (see their catalog p.15).

but I like the idea of ventilations between the cab and box. I wonder, however, how much ventilation you would get without having to put a fan in that vent opening. (which is not too hard, but it takes power and one more thing to break down etc.)

Yes, that could probably be a concern.

I still wonder what kind of attack we want to prevent here.

If it is intrusion, the lowest window will stand almost 2 meters up the ground level and it is only 20 cm in height. Besides, the particular opening cinematic of the KCT windows further reduces that height when the window is open (at first sight I didn't like those windows, but they have at least 2 advantages, not mentioning their strongness and the genuine safety plate : 1/ they can be cleaned both faces from the inside ; 2/ they allow a particular air flow when opened [hot air from inside to outside on the top of the opening and fresh air from outside to inside at the bottom of the opening, see their catalog p.6 ; on the other hand, the main disadvantage is that they don't offer a full view when totally opened).

If it is gas (anesthetic, etc.), then if it's not possible through the window, it will through the fridge or kitchen hood vents or some other opening...

So is it really worth making those windows not openable and cut other holes in the front wall (not mentioning the efficiency and electric power issues you stated) ?

Anyway, thanks for the advice, I will keep it in mind and discuss it with the builder.

 

[mike002]

Again, many thanks for taking the time to give your advice, I appreciate ! :wavey:

Hi

Thanks for the kind words. I've nothing much to add really, but maybe a quick reply:

- IMHO 51cm is ok for a passage-way you walk through (like into the cab), but it may well prove too narrow for an opening through which one climbs and immediately turns sideways into a laying position. Now, children will manage to climb in through just about anything, but it seems you're after a bit more future-proofing for when they grow up etc.

- About the ladder protruding: true. However it could be an independent unit in front of the storage bins, not connected to them. Just a suggestion.

- Ladder to ceiling thing: you're absolutely right about bunk beds never extending the ladder above mattress height. However some form of railing or other handle usually does extend upwards to assist in climbing in.
A typical example of this

- No gas: nice and elegant! Just one more admirable factor in the design.

- Safety issue: well honestly I don't see specific safety issues. I made my rather quirky suggestions based on concerns you and others raised earlier in the thread.
Though come to think of it, even a barred opening might allow a hand through (stealing game consoles from the bedside storage perhaps).

Good luck with the build!