Max Coupler Wearing Out

[Martyn]

Teotwaki, sorry you are having all these issues with Chris, he can sometimes be a little difficult to deal with but I think that is true for many of us entrepreneurs, myself included. If there is anything I can do to help let me know.

The Max Coupler has gone through a range of modifications over the years to improve it's performance. It first came out as a competitor to the Lock-n-Roll that had design and availability issues. The Max Coupler has changed over time to improve coupling and wear issues. I've read all the comments on the Max Coupler in this thread and have mulled them over, but from customer feedback and personal observation my feedback is that the Coupler performs very well both on and off road. The first generation couplers may now be showing signs of wear, but considering we are dealing with three pivot points that are articulating and being used in a variety of off road conditions I don't think that is unusual.

AT was the first company to import Australian made couplers into the USA when we brought in the Treg Coupler. It too had some issues as it aged, primarily the degrading of the urethane bushing due to U.V. We also couldn't get a regular supply of the couplers. We looked into other Australian brands but faced the issues of costing, SAE certification, and liability coverage. The cost was extremely high, as was shipping, few if any of the Australian couplers were SAE certified for use in the US so there would have been an initial cost to get them certified. The big stumbling block was who would cover liability, the manufactures didn't want to be held responsible for any liability for product failure in the US. This was the issue that stopped the project.

For the up and coming entrepreneurs who want to build a three axis coupler my advice is study the SAE regulations on coupler testing and certification, and find product liability insurance. Couplers for on road use need to comply with SAE standards and DOT regulations. Couplers for off-road use only do not need to comply but you are still open to being sued as a company and or as an individual if the coupler fails and results in a loss.

Finally can the perfect product be design? Yes I believe it can. Will the consumer buy the perfect product? I think that depends on the price of the product. The improved Australian couplers will run you $350 - $400, the perfect US made coupler maybe $500, the current Max Coupler $250. Considering there is a large faction of off roaders who still use the Pintle hitch because it's way less expensive than a multi axis coupler, and we are in a very price sensitive community I believe the Max Coupler is good value for money, it performs as expected, and yes after 5 years of service you may we'll have to change out some of the moving parts or replace the coupler.

 

[teotwaki]

Thanks Martyn, I appreciate the offer.

I never asked Chris for freebies of any sort. Just treating a customer with respect is all I expected but failed to get. The second he raised his voice to me on the phone I hung up.

My Max Coupler is 4 years and 7 months old. My original issue was not with the age versus the wear nor did I knock its performance when it was not too worn.

It is not possible to change out individual parts because you can't buy them. You have to buy either or both of the major assemblies. Some dealers won't sell just one half.

The web site is difficult to use, and by their own admission it is by design. That's messed up.

There is no warranty statement that I could find there. How hard is that to fix?

The instructions shipped with the new unit are out of date. How hard is that to fix?

Chris spent more time writing me angry emails than he spent trying to help me. I know he reads the forum so I posted all of the quality control issues here.
I highly doubt he'll ever offer to replace or repair the low quality one I just bought and the pictures clearly show there are issues with the one I have.

Is the hitch improved? Yes as I can easily see the differences between the two that I have. The new model definitely mounts up better if the two halves are reasonably aligned. That is likely to reduce or eliminate the chipping and tearing of the red bushings.

Can it be improved more? Absolutely! Better materials choice will reduce wear. Better bearing design would probably come close to eliminating the wear of hard metal against soft.

Better quality control would keep customers from receiving sloppy weld alignment and bare metal splotches on a factory fresh assembly that they paid $135 for.

Someone will soon pull a "Smittybuit" stunt and offer a "Mao Coupler" for less money, undercutting Chris and all similar USA made products.

Regardless of how much Chris dislikes me I have offered accurate feedback and you could convince him that he should not lightly dismiss it. He had no interest in hearing it from me directly so I've shared it here for all to see. He refuses to communicate and I can't help that.

Best regards,

Jim

 

[Martyn]

Jim, if you have more issues work directly with AT and we'll get her right for you.

 

[HudsonZRoamer]

Just saw this post makes me a little nervous reading this. I just ordered a Max Coupler from CU Offroad and found these guys are actually local to me so if I have any real issues with them Ill just head over to Azusa to work it out. Their website is a little hard to use and the Contact Us is pretty buried under their Specials category. So far so good though he has been pretty helpful with measurement questions and things like that I will keep this thread bookmarked for future updates. I give every company a chance to prove themselves so I try not to be too quick to make judgements. Sorry for the OP issues with them such a bummer and I hope you get everything worked out.

The power of social media now is undeniable so I am finding a lot of companies normally stepping up to resolve issues that are not completely due to end user negligence.

 

[teotwaki]

I don't think Max Coupler's address has been in Azusa for a while. I'm pretty sure they are in Nevada now.

As for "working things out"? The company has gone silent. As you can see in the previous post to yours the good folks at Adventure Trailers stepped up and offered to help me if ever needed but Max Coupler only likes praise and sales, not criticism. Be careful what you say to them as they'll stop talking to you too.

Note that the instructions supplied with the hitch I got are not for the new model so you have to figure things out for yourself such as greasing, torque of the bolt and bushing, etc. They mention using LocTite on the Nylock Nut but no mention is made of the threaded bushing. If you get newer instructions please share them.

All I can tell you is to disassemble the vehicle side of the hitch after every trip and clean out the grit and dust. Take some measurements of the play (or wobble) as it sits when new and keep an eye on the wear. Lubricate the moving parts of both assemblies often, especially because the harder metal of the bushing ("crush sleeve") is going to wear into the softer metal of the hitch. Watch the surface areas of the metal to metal contact for pitting. They don't sell replacement parts so you can buy either or both assemblies but that is it. Preventive maintenance is all you have to make it last because after that it is a throw away item.

 

[Shooter235]

I've recently ordered 2 of the latest Max Coupler. My experience with Chris has been excellent. During my research before purchasing a hitch I emailed them and asked a few simple questions. I received a prompt reply, on a Saturday, that answered the questions asked, but led to a few more. I included my phone number in my next email and what do you know, I receive a call from Chris that same day. He took the time to answer all of my questions, was very friendly and professional.
I ordered the first Max Coupler a few weeks later. It has worked exactly as expected. No, I don't have many miles on it, but it is exactly what I believed it would be.
Fast forward a bit, I wanted a coupler for a second trailer. I again emailed Chris and asked a few questions about the new bolt on design. All questions were answered promptly, and after daily emails for 4-5 days I had another coupler on order. This one is in route as I type this.
This entire thread seems to bash on a man and company that I have had only good experiences with. I feel Chris was more than willing to help, to the point of going out of his way, from day one. I am happy with the product the company sells, understanding my experience is limited. Will it wear out over time.....I fully expect it to, I've had 2" balls wear down to the point they were no longer usable, and this is a specially item with "more moving parts". I do feel Chris and CU Offroad will be there to help if/when I have issues down the road.

 

[teotwaki]

That's nice that you had a satisfactory experience with Chris. This thread was not solely invented to bash Chris because he and his company have a need to improve in a number of areas that other people besides myself agree upon. Look at how you jumped into that Intech RV thread just to bash Rich, the owner of the company:

Did you do all of the customizing yourself? I spoke with Rich at Intech and he flat refused to talk about any kind of custom work. I mean would not even listen to my ideas, not even on small items such as hub bolt pattern. Wasn't to impressed with his ambition to work with the consumer.

I've had a Max Flyer ordered for over 2 months now. Was told it would be a 6-8 week wait when the order was placed. Now being told it will not arrive until July. I have had a VIN since mid April. Has anyone else had to wait this long.

You weren't shy about sharing your unhappiness with Rich at Intech RV so who are you to admonish anyone for documenting their problems with CU Offroad?

 

[Shooter235]

Yes Sir, I did, directly to the person I was speaking about, if you noted who I quoted in the post. I said my piece and that was it. It didn't carry on for 6 pages.

The second quote you list is out of context. It is not directed towards Intech, it was a dealer issue. A valid explanation was given a few posts later.

 

[teotwaki]

Yes Sir, I did, directly to the person I was speaking about, if you noted who I quoted in the post. I said my piece and that was it. It didn't carry on for 6 pages.

The second quote you list is out of context. It is not directed towards Intech, it was a dealer issue. A valid explanation was given a few posts later.

Context is nonessential. The real point is that you felt free to jump into that other thread and bash people and products in public. It seems that your public bashing is justified in your own mind but you have a double standard to apply to others who have legitimate complaints based on long term ownership of a Max Coupler.

I started this thread about the quality issues with a specific product and the poor service I received. I documented CU Offroad's coupler problems with photos and facts. Others have chimed in with their comments and I responded. Framing this discussion as "carrying on" makes you sound like a shill and adds to the very page count you gripe about.

Since you don't have any facts to offer, any real experience with the coupler or much else to contribute to the discussion all you can cobble together now is to bash me? Come back after a year or two when your coupler wears the same poor way as mine and you can't purchase any replacement parts. You'll squeal a different tune.

 

[Shooter235]

I beg to differ, context is always essential, unless you are interested in twisting things to fit your shape.

Yes, you started this thread, a new thread, after making the same opening comments on another related thread. There was absolutely no reason for a new thread, especially a negative thread serving only as a vent for the OP. It fails to offer any help to viewers or offer any real solutions. Anyone with an opinion differing from your own is obviously shunned.

You are correct, I admittedly do not have much experience with the product, but I do have relative experience as far as the company's customer service. That is what I commented on. I understand it must be hard to believe they can actually offer help to a person that acts decent towards them. Unfortunately, I don't think they will ever be able to do any right by you.

Enjoy you thread.

 

[teotwaki]

I beg to differ, context is always essential, unless you are interested in twisting things to fit your shape.

Yes, you started this thread, a new thread, after making the same opening comments on another related thread. There was absolutely no reason for a new thread, especially a negative thread serving only as a vent for the OP. It fails to offer any help to viewers or offer any real solutions. Anyone with an opinion differing from your own is obviously shunned.

You are correct, I admittedly do not have much experience with the product, but I do have relative experience as far as the company's customer service. That is what I commented on. I understand it must be hard to believe they can actually offer help to a person that acts decent towards them. Unfortunately, I don't think they will ever be able to do any right by you.

Enjoy you thread.

First off, THANK YOU for continuing to bump the thread and increase its visibility. As much as you are trying to shoot it down for the vendor you are only causing it to be more visible. Enjoy the irony?

The "other related thread" was my "Wanted To Buy" thread which is not an appropriate place to have this discussion. Having a thread focused solely on one topic is normal around forums in case you hadn't noticed the Jeep or Land Rover or Toyota or other specific topic areas. This thread is also picture heavy because those are illustrations of facts as opposed to people who insist on forcing their own biased opinions into every thread they disagree with. If you read all of my responses you'll see I've even assisted others with where to buy the coupler from places besides the CU Offroad site. Even better, there are 20+ other responses which came from others. Did you read any of those? In your narrow opinion they got no benefit from the thread I guess.

Serving as a vent? I never said "Don't buy from CU Offroad". As opposed to you I am not forcing my opinions on anyone. I have a neighbor who just bought two of them for some good reasons which include the price. He is going to make sure his customers understand the extra maintenance they must perform to keep the coupler from failing. In this thread I have carefully documented how the coupler's design has unneeded wear between the soft metal yoke and the hardened bushing. Are you denying that now?

I have pointed out that people should be careful to disassemble it often, clean it and re-grease it. Is that bad advice? I never said throw it away or return it for a refund. Maybe you are upset because you bought the product first and now realize you need to carefully maintain it because you cannot buy spare parts? How does that make this a bad thread?

What about the fact they were shipping the coupler with the old instructions which say nothing about the new design's differences in construction? I guess that is not useful to readers either, huh?

As for shunning opinions that differ I would correct you to say "uninformed opinions". Did you even read what Martyn of Adventure Trailers said. He has tons of experience with the coupler and they source them for their trailers too. You don't see me shunning that guy. He is a genuine Offroad Trailer God.

I have put hundreds, maybe thousands of miles offroad on the coupler where you have not. I sought out help from the vendor and got angry phone calls AND emails instead. You've got no experience with the product and you got Chris in a good mood. I'm happy for you but you seem to be unhappy that I tell people that I had a bad experience. Complain as much as you want but the pictures clearly show the problems and serve as a reminder to folks to maintain their couplers as best as possible. You cannot buy replacement parts; only one or both of the assemblies are offered.

Have a great time with your new trailer and maintain your Max Coupler well. :sombrero:

 

[orangeTJ]

Another wear point I see is that the angled hitch pin is going to wallow of the hole it goes in to as it slides back and forth.
A straight, locking hitch pin is a far better solution to avoid a wallowed out hole.
Angled hitch pins causing wallowed out holes is a well documented problem on the OEM hitches used on GMT800 (99-2007) GM trucks

 

[teotwaki]

Another wear point I see is that the angled hitch pin is going to wallow of the hole it goes in to as it slides back and forth.
A straight, locking hitch pin is a far better solution to avoid a wallowed out hole.
Angled hitch pins causing wallowed out holes is a well documented problem on the OEM hitches used on GMT800 (99-2007) GM trucks

I think you mean one of these?

A straight non-locking might be like this

 

[orangeTJ]

I think you mean one of these?

Yep, either would work.

 

[JJBiggs]

I have read through this entire thread. And...am very sorry the OP had these issues. Also...I am not writing this to bash the OP. That crack in the assembly warranted attention, IMO and he did the right thing. However...something does need to be pointed out.

Maintenance. In dusty, watery, nasty conditions any mechanical device MUST be disassembled, cleaned and re-greased regularly. In some cases, quite frequently as unwanted debris will penetrate the finest of mechanical joints. The military lives by this mantra. It simply must be done. When in doubt - grease. Then add more.

My reason for mentioning this, based upon the photos of the pitted steel that depicted the worn pivot point of the hitch. Those pits are from debris that was ground into the steel repeatedly over a long period of time. That said - the most recent generation of the hitch seems to have somewhat solved this. HOWEVER, even that new assembly will need regular greasing and maintenance. If owners / users do not, added wear and material degradation will certainly take place.

Just my two cents and an observation.

C