Maxing out your truck’s payload

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
Remember saying this? This is where it all started and what I disagreed with:

"Nonsense. Running at max GVWR on the highway isn't taxing anything near peak on a truck unless you are hitting a legit, and long, 6+% grade, or operating continuously on legit off-road.

Start from the ground and work your way up...

Tires
Brakes
Hub/wheel bearings
Axle housing
Ring and Pinion

Driveshaft and U-joints
Trans
Clutch/Converter
Engine
Chassis

I run at or over max GVWR all the time. Nothing on that list is near its max rating. Nothing
.

Using YOUR data the things highlighted are different between the 250/350 and 450+, so you are flat out wrong using you comparative analysis since Ford upgraded components from the 350 to 450 why?

And all you are doing is confusing the parts that happen to also cross over to medium duty (or not) as part of the discussion. Nowhere did I infer that parts are also shared between our f250 and medium duty, although many do. My inferences were between our 10k GVWR and a similarly equipped 11,500 GVWR F-350. You really should work on your reading comprehension. ;)
 
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IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
It's pretty entertaining how there are people traveling the world in Tacomas 1000lbs over GVWR and people who say running a 1 ton truck at more than 75% GVWR is asking for trouble. My F250 is currently sitting at 97% GVWR. I'll let you all know when the wheels come off if I survive🤣
Id love to see our troll in this thread justify theGVWR of the old 1-tonToyotas Surely they would have exploded in a great ball of fire before even hitting the dealers. 😆
 

nickw

Adventurer
And all you are doing is confusing the parts that happen to also cross over to medium duty (or not) as part of the discussion. Nowhere did I infer that parts are also shared between our f250 and medium duty, although many do. My inferences were between our 10k GVWR and a similarly equipped 11,500 GVWR F-350. You really should work on your reading comprehension. ;)
LOL - what you originally said and what I disagreed with:

"Nonsense. Running at max GVWR on the highway isn't taxing anything near peak on a truck..."

That statement is false using your logic, it may be true on select rigs but you were using it as a broad statement and that is specifically what I had issue with, not rocket surgery. All the data you provided disproves your point.

But regardless, nobody is going to convince me rigs are designed to operate at max.....maybe select 3/4T rigs and maybe rigs like Tremor and Powerwagon that are de-rated 3/4T rigs.
 
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nickw

Adventurer
Id love to see our troll in this thread justify theGVWR of the old 1-tonToyotas Surely they would have exploded in a great ball of fire before even hitting the dealers. 😆
Back to name calling because I don't agree with you - grow up.

You talking about the campers with HD frames and FF dually rear axles?

Speaking of Toyota - why do the LC70's have FF axles, HD Tcases, big transmissions, etc? Duty cycle and design parameters.
 
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nickw

Adventurer
It's pretty entertaining how there are people traveling the world in Tacomas 1000lbs over GVWR and people who say running a 1 ton truck at more than 75% GVWR is asking for trouble. My F250 is currently sitting at 97% GVWR. I'll let you all know when the wheels come off if I survive🤣
With all due respect - we agree on a lot, but the folks defending full GVWR seem to be justifying their decisions.

The further below GVWR you are the larger your factor of safety is, the longer rigs will last and the more they are going to be able to handle offroad or in sketchy situations.

If design life of a rig is 150,000 miles, maybe you get that on the road at full GVWR (varies by manuf).....at 75% of it maybe you get 200,000 miles or a certain % more. You have a larger factor of safety....that is a good thing, nothing bad about it.

I took offense to @IdaSHO saying vehicles are designed to handle max day in day out are are not taxing anything, he doesn't know that, we are not privy to duty cycles, engineering docs, design paramters, life cycle, mileage requirements. You get into playing games with how manuf. market their rigs vs the real world, the real world is very different.

Lots of Tacomas have issues running over GVWR, just because you can doesn't mean you should. You show me an overweight Tacoma I'll show you a 3/4T rig as a better option that is going to be safer, more robust, less breakdowns and more reliable long term.
 
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IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
LOL - what you originally said and what I disagreed with:

"Nonsense. Running at max GVWR on the highway isn't taxing anything near peak on a truck..."

Finally! So thats what all your nonsense has been about??

Alright, so if thats what you are convinced is incorrect, please enlighten us as to what IS being taxed near peak GVWR while running down the highway.

And since you are so convinced Im wrong, Ill even let you use my own rig as an example.

Details:

2011 F250 4x4
Extended cab, long box
6.2 Gasser, 6-speed select shift
GVWR 10,000
Loaded weight (typically) lets say 11,200
Thats 6200lbs rear, 5000lbs front
Lets assume 60mph, as thats what we drive
And use 9mpg for your calcs, as thats what we have averaged with this setup, for the last 30,000 miles or so.

Thanks, Ill be waiting to see just how taxed my truck is, and what components are near exploding , creating disaster on the roads, and likely killing a busload of nuns. <—— only the kool kids will understand that reference. 😉

Yep, this should be good.
 

nickw

Adventurer
Finally! So thats what all your nonsense has been about??

Alright, so if thats what you are convinced is incorrect, please enlighten us as to what IS being taxed near peak GVWR while running down the highway.

And since you are so convinced Im wrong, Ill even let you use my own rig as an example.

Details:

2011 F250 4x4
Extended cab, long box
6.2 Gasser, 6-speed select shift
GVWR 10,000
Loaded weight (typically) lets say 11,200
Thats 6200lbs rear, 5000lbs front
Lets assume 60mph, as thats what we drive
And use 9mpg for your calcs, as thats what we have averaged with this setup, for the last 30,000 miles or so.

Thanks, Ill be waiting to see just how taxed my truck is, and what components are near exploding , creating disaster on the roads, and likely killing a busload of nuns. <—— only the kool kids will understand that reference. 😉

Yep, this should be good.
That is a very charlatan-esque technique - make somebody disprove your claims if they can't, it's gotta be true! You made the claim about all trucks and I said show me the money - still waiting outside of one example and a handful of cross reference parts.

Here I'll quote you again:

"Running at max GVWR on the highway isn't taxing anything near peak on a truck unless you are hitting a legit, and long, 6+% grade, or operating continuously on legit off-road."

Explain why F450's don't have the same parts as a F350, you brought it up, you showed part numbers, they clearly have different brakes, axles, carriers, the list goes on and on. Same story with Ram's, if you spend any time looking underneath one you'd see how large the axles are relative to a 1T.

I'd believe it with the older Toyota's - those mini trucks / Hiluxes were way overbuilt and you know what, they lasted 500,000 miles in part because of it. A 140 hp engine isn't going to hurt a ~1/2T drivetrain, it isn't going to put strain and stress on mechanical components that is going to shorten lifespan like overloading a rig. Some thing with some Landcruisers, they have close to 3/4T running gear and in the case of my 78' FJ40, it had 140hp and was relatively light weight so it drove around at a fraction of it's mechanical limit....again, partially why they last.
Do what works for ya - I'm done, it's all you from here on out.
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
So you cannot back up your claim that Im incorrect?

Oh come on…. If you can Ill ‘like’ all your posts for a week, or maybe even let you eat at the cool kids table!

Or how about this…. you find a single truck on the market today that challenges my claim. As in, running at max GVWR on the highway heavily taxes the truck in some way. Just one, surely you can do that! :D
 

Alloy

Well-known member
Dude, after reading your post detailing your recent suspension "upgrades" and reviewing your pictures - I wouldn't let you change my air filter. Seriously, your trucks suspension is questionable, at best, and you claim you are a person who can increase GVWR?!?

Interesting lift block in the rear - I can assure you that will not last.
View attachment 797083


And your rear air bags and mounts - who installed them?
View attachment 797084

Disappointing seeing this post.

When I looked at the original post I thought it was pretty good and I made a suggestion regarding the air bag mount.

The air bag mount was designed and engineered by the manufacturer which contradicts the point you make.

In addition if I thought it was unsafe I would have said so.
 

ramblinChet

Well-known member
Here is
The air bag mount was designed and engineered by the manufacturer which contradicts the point you make.

Provide a PDF of the manufacturer's instructions so we can all review their installation procedure and compare that with the installation being discussed.
 

ramblinChet

Well-known member
Here is objective information provided by experts:



Carrying passengers or cargo? Knowing your gross vehicle weight rating helps ensure you don’t overload your vehicle.

Gross vehicle weight rating, or GVWR, might sound like a term only professional truck drivers are aware of. In reality, it’s an important figure every driver of a GMC pickup truck, SUV and crossover needs to keep in mind in order to remain safe while carrying cargo or passengers alike.

Easily found on a label placed inside the driver’s door jamb, the GVWR figure is the maximum weight a GMC pickup truck, SUV or crossover is engineered to safely carry. While this figure does not include the total weight of any trailer being towed, it does include the passengers, personal effects, and cargo carried, along with the weight (or the curb vehicle weight) of the truck itself and the tongue weight of the trailer.

You may not give much thought about those figures while making short trips or carrying a couple of small items, but when it comes time to load your GMC with lots of passengers or cargo, it’s important to keep your GMC’s GVWR in mind. Failure to do so may result in you exceeding the GVWR and overloading your vehicle.

Overloading your truck or SUV can carry severe consequences, including:
  • Broken springs and suspension components due to excess weight
  • Brakes unable to stop the truck or SUV in a timely manner
  • Transmission and other driveline components may overheat and sustain serious damage
  • Unusual suspension behavior, making the vehicle hard to control
  • Tire temperatures rising to elevated levels, potentially leading to a blowout
Knowing both your vehicle’s gross vehicle weight and gross vehicle weight rating allow you to quickly calculate how much you can safely carry. For example, take a look at the 2020 GMC Sierra 1500 Crew Cab Short Box 4WD with the available 3.0L Duramax® Turbo-Diesel engine. The gross vehicle weight rating for this particular model is 7,200 pounds†. The weight of this Sierra (unloaded and without occupants) is 5,350 pounds. By subtracting the weight from the GVWR, you can determine this particular Sierra can carry about 1,884 pounds without exceeding its maximum weight rating.

That doesn’t necessarily mean you can universally carry 1,810 pounds of cargo in its pickup box – the weight of passengers within the cab also needs to be factored into the GVWR. If you have two 200-pound passengers climb into that same Sierra, it now has an available capacity of 1,410 pounds.

You should also take care to not overload the weight on the individual axles of your GMC. To prevent this, it’s important to know the gross axle weight rating, or GAWR, of your vehicle. This number represents the maximum amount of weight that can be placed on an individual axle.

The GAWR includes the weight of the vehicle, passengers, cargo and trailer tongue weight (if applicable). Also, front and rear axles can have individual GAWR numbers.

It's important to always abide by the GVWR and GAWR specifically set for your GMC truck or SUV. In the course of vehicle development, professional engineers have extensively pushed these vehicles to their limits in order to keep you, your passengers, and your belongings safe and to avoid damage to your vehicle. Staying within these limits helps your truck, trailer, and travel remain safe.



Gross Vehicle Weight Rating: GVWR for heavy loads and trucking

Everything you need to know about gross vehicle weight rating and why it’s important to your fleet.

What is GVWR? Why is it important to consider this factor? How is it calculated? We’re here to answer all your burning questions about gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). According to the Association for the Advancement of Automotive Medicine, failure to adhere to weight capacity when loading a truck can become a major crash contributor, especially in crashes where the truck rolls over. Additionally, it can be hard on the truck's overall body, resulting in more wear-and-tear, increased maintenance costs and higher truck downtime.

So, let’s get into it.

What is a gross vehicle weight rating?

First and foremost, let’s talk about what GVWR is. It refers to the maximum combined weight — including the net weight of the vehicle and accessories, plus passengers, fuel and cargo — that a vehicle can consist of before it starts to become unsafe or cause damage to the vehicle.
Identifying and enforcing gross vehicle weight helps:
  • Drivers have complete control of the vehicle
  • Maintain the integrity of roads and bridges
  • Decrease on-road truck breakdowns
Additional terms

There are other different types of weight assignments for trucks that are useful to know, including:
  • Curb weight: Refers to the vehicle’s weight including a full tank of fuel and all standard equipment. The curb weight does not include passengers, cargo or any optional equipment.
  • Tongue weight: The maximum downward force that can be safely suspended from the hitch.
  • Dry weight: The weight of the vehicle, not including liquids such as fuel, water, oil, coolant and brake fluid.
  • Towing capacity: The gross weight that a truck is able to tow behind it safely.
  • Payload capacity: Refers to the gross weight of anything being carried in a truck or the truck bed, including passengers.
  • Gross combined vehicle weight rating (GCVWR): The weight of the truck as well as its trailer.
  • Gross axle weight rating (GAWR): The maximum amount of weight that can be exerted on each axle.
How is a truck's gross vehicle weight rating determined?

The truck’s manufacturer determines a vehicle's GVWR. They will figure out both the front and rear GAWRs using the lowest-rated components (tires, suspensions, axles, etc.) and, combined, they will dictate the GVWR. Usually, the GVWR of a vehicle is listed on the driver’s side door or in the vehicle’s manual.

Why is GVWR important?

Finally, you might ask yourself, why these ratings and calculations and considerations are important. Truth be told, they dictate a lot of what fleets can and can’t do with their workforce.

Lower maintenance costs

One aspect of fleet ownership that managers want to avoid is vehicle downtime. It might seem as though adding a couple hundred extra pounds to a transportation truck can allow you to be more efficient, but adding excessive weight only causes its parts to break down faster. Instead of a more efficient fleet, you’re left with unnecessary maintenance costs, increased vehicle downtime and a higher rate of breakdowns.
Extra weight means more pressure on the axles, suspension, tires and overall body of the truck. By adhering to GVWR, fleet managers can stretch their maintenance times and ensure that their vehicles – and their parts – aren’t being put under avoidable strain.

Reliable vehicle control

The last thing you want is for a driver to lose control of a vehicle on the road, let alone a vehicle carrying more weight than it is supposed to. When trucks are overloaded, steering, maneuverability, braking and acceleration are all affected. It can be challenging for drivers to judge stopping distances, maintain control going down an incline or take a turn.
Not only is vehicle control important for your drivers, but it is vital to other drivers who are sharing the road. An overloaded truck losing control can have significant consequences for everyone involved.

Avoid liability

Safety for your drivers and others on the road should be a top priority. Part of the reason GVWRs exist is to help make sure that roadways are safe for everyone using them. If your truck is involved in a collision and it is found to be overloaded, there is a chance that you could be involved in a costly court case. With cases of nuclear verdicts on the rise, fleet managers should be doing their best to follow compliance and keep themselves out of trouble. Additionally, failure to follow your vehicle’s GVWR can result in some very hefty fines and, in some cases, getting your truck impounded.
 

ramblinChet

Well-known member
Continued...



The role of GVWR and GCWR in specifying work trucks

By Bob Raybuck, NTEA Director of Technical Services

Often, GVWR and gross vehicle weight (GVW) are thought to be the same, but they are not. A truck’s GVWR is the maximum weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer. GVW is the total weight of the truck and payload at a point in time.

There’s a common misconception that a truck’s GVWR is determined by adding gross axle weight ratings (GAWRs) together for all axles. Although this was a common way of calculating GVWR many years ago, it’s no longer an accurate method. The chassis manufacturer task of establishing a vehicle GVWR is much more difficult today due to advancement of safety system standards and how vehicles meet these requirements. This is why many trucks have a GVWR much lower than the combined axle ratings. It’s not uncommon for a truck with a GVWR of 19,500 pounds to have a front axle rated at 7,500 pounds and a rear axle rated at 14,700 pounds. Safety standards that apply to braking, vehicle stability, and chassis manufacturer internal standards for durability, dynamic stability and handling can restrict GVWR even though the sum of the axle ratings exceeds 22,000 pounds. In this instance, the OEM set the GVWR at 19,500 pounds based on test results and vehicle dynamic performance to ensure a safe, reliable truck.

A specific vehicle’s GCWR is based on parameters established by chassis manufacturers. The manufacturer makes an assessment in accordance with SAE International test protocols, determining maximum GCWR. Additionally, the OEM runs stringent tests based on internal requirements which may include testing total GCWR braking capability using only the towing vehicle chassis braking system. GCWR is the total weight of the truck pulling the trailer and the trailer itself. The truck chassis dictates proper GCWR for safe operation of the combination truck and trailer.

When end users and fleets are looking to either purchase or specify the proper chassis for their needs, different driver qualifications and regulations are part of the process. A key driver qualification is the commercial driver’s license rule, better known as CDL. Many fleets prefer to specify their chassis in a way that allows drivers without a CDL to operate their vehicles. Federal CDL requirements help clarify what’s considered a non-CDL truck and how GVWR comes into play.

Each individual state may have more stringent CDL licensing requirements. However, every state must follow federal requirements as a baseline. One element in federal CDL operator requirements is a vehicle’s GVWR. The federal requirement specifies that, when a vehicle has a GVWR of 26,000 pounds or less, the operator does not need a CDL. However, this does not mean the truck GVW can be loaded above the GVWR of 26,000 pounds and operated by a non-CDL driver. Federal requirements state the GVW must, in addition, be 26,000 pounds or less. CDL requirements become more confusing when the vehicle is towing a trailer.

There are three key aspects to consider when assessing CDL operator requirements for commercial work trucks involved in towing a trailer: truck GVWR, trailer GVWR and GCWR of the truck-trailer combination. Trailer GVWR is most critical to determining when a CDL is required.

When a trailer has a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more and the combined GCWR of the truck and trailer is 26,001 pounds or more, a CDL is required by the operator. For example, if a trailer has a GVWR of 11,500 pounds and is towed by a truck with a GVWR of 15,000 pounds, resulting in a GCWR of 26,500 pounds, then the operator must have a CDL.

In contrast, when the trailer in the truck-trailer combination has a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less, requirements allow for a greater GCWR for both the truck and trailer without requiring a CDL. For example, a truck with a GVWR of 26,000 pounds or less can tow a trailer with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less and not require the operator to have a CDL under federal requirements. However, CDL requirements mandate that the truck and trailer GVW not exceed 26,000 pounds and 10,000 pounds, respectively. In short, the truck and trailer cannot be overloaded.

When determining the truck and trailer combination(s) end customers or fleets want, it’s important to understand which combination(s) will require a CDL or knowledge of how to specify and load trucks and trailers properly to remain within CDL weight limitations. There’s a common perception that a truck’s original GVWR can be changed to avoid CDL requirements. Even though there are provisions in the vehicle certification rules that allow the company finishing the new incomplete vehicle (final-stage manufacturer) to determine final GVWR, the final-stage manufacturer is typically reluctant to make changes to the original GVWR without guidance from the incomplete vehicle manufacturer.

Many incomplete medium-duty vehicle manufacturers include GVWR information as part of the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) coding in the vehicle description section (4–8) and, therefore, will not change an incomplete vehicle’s GVWR after it is manufactured as the VIN would need to be updated. Many incomplete vehicle OEMs will provide guidance about changing GVWR for a VIN-specific new incomplete chassis through their dealer network; however, they make the final-stage manufacturer the responsible party. Many times, altering GVWR requires changing key components (such as tires, suspensions or even axles). If a company claims it can change GVWR, consider asking about the organization’s approach to testing, engineering analysis and certification documentation to ensure ongoing compliance.

As a company or fleet, you’re placing your employees in these vehicles. It is very important to company well-being and employee safety to make sure the trucks you purchase are designed for their intended purposes and GVWR and GCWR are specified properly for safe, efficient operation.
 

ITTOG

Well-known member
So you cannot back up your claim that Im incorrect?

Oh come on…. If you can Ill ‘like’ all your posts for a week, or maybe even let you eat at the cool kids table!

Or how about this…. you find a single truck on the market today that challenges my claim. As in, running at max GVWR on the highway heavily taxes the truck in some way. Just one, surely you can do that! :D
Mic Drop!!!!!!!!!!!!

The cooling system on most F150's while towing is the only truck I can think of that challenges your claim.
 

Alloy

Well-known member
Here is


Provide a PDF of the manufacturer's instructions so we can all review their installation procedure and compare that with the installation being discussed.

I had the same system (designed and engineered by the mfg) on my truck. The brackets "B" bent in the way you see in the IDACAMPER photos.

After sending pictures to the mfg they gave me a new kit that was upgraded with part "C" to prevent bracket "B" from bending.

Your last posts take things off topic (running at max GVWR on the highway heavily taxes the truck). The post reference exceeding GVWR and a CDL which is out of the realm of this forum.

Did I miss the information regarding wear and tear at/near the GVWR?



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