Modding a Wrangler to Match Land Cruiser Reliability?

[cruiseroutfit]

...X Ped boys. Drove to the gap on paved roads. Toyotas broken down twice and toasted a coil spring.

Paved roads....yep, them Toyotas.

Again, your research precedes you

You simply can't drive to the Darien Gap without much pavement. And we did thousands of miles in the dirt on our trip. The only real failure (that didn't leave the team stranded btw) was an aftermarket prototype part... hard to blame that one on Toyota eh?

Let's hear about your trip from Prudhoe to the Darien in your Jeep

But let's stick to Land Cruisers. We drove them around the world (twice) across some of the harshest terrains accessibly by vehicle (Canning, Skeleton Coast, Road of Bones, etc), zero failures. And I know folks driving Jeeps around the world and they too have had great results. Proper vehicle selection with consideration for your background and scope of expertise, built to the limits and engineering realm of the vehicle and driven with mechanical sympathy... you'll get where you need to go.

 

[kojackJKU]

To be fair, the rusting Toyota problems were a US based issue. The frames for the recall ridden Tacoma were actually built by Dana (as in Dana-Spicer) in a US plant. The corrosion coating they used wasn't up to task and Toyota had a problem on their hands, a legit problem. In the rust belt things were worse. I had a 1996 Tacoma that still has a clean frame, daily driven in Utah for the last 19 years and garaged maybe 25% of it's life. The frame on my 2004 Tacoma (corrosion coating issue) looked much worse after just 10 years though I kept up on cleaning and painting things every couple years. It is/was a legit issue and those owners were either compensated (1.5x blue book value) or had their frames replaced. Now, the frame and coating on a Land Cruiser are totally different, all built in Japan and rust issues are far less common. I deal with 5, 10, 20, 30, 50 year old Land Cruisers every day, Cruisers that are plow trucks, daily drivers on salty roads, etc. They fair as good as any other modern auto frame. Jeep's here in Utah suffer just the same with our salty roads, but apparently not every Canadian JK owner feels the same way you do We can all drop anecdotal evidence about the "severe conditions and rusty rigs in my neck of the woods" but the reality is you can do a quick google search and find pictures any vehicle you want full of rust holes. Wash the salt off once in awhile and it's a non-issue.

US only problem my ***. There are many ******** can rust bucket Toyotas in Canada. They never made a special product for here. They are all JUNK.

 

[DaJudge]

? Is that like the Pentatick?

They had an issue and fixed it. You can't say that about Toyota's head gaskets! I know you Toyota cool-aid drinkers would like the rest of us to think that head gaskets are a normal maintenance item but they are not...unless you drive a Toyota!

 

[twiisted71]

Oh, and there is nothing thrifty about the V8 diesels in LCs. Nothing thrifty about a modern diesel.

"Land Cruisers have gotten more plush but they also stayed true to making them offroad worthy mpgs be damned."

"... the LC and the offroad vehicles the rest of the world gets (not designed by US companies) is that they aren't built for speed (barring the Land Rover/BMW types). They are built with thrifty reliable diesels...."

I didn't know anything about LCs having a V8 diesel Must be those things they call Sequoias, eh? I only knew of LCs having an I6, and even whether gas or diesel I'd venture to say the choice was more to do with longevity and fuel availability in a specific part of the world. Again, mpgs be damned. But the World Ranger, Isuzu D-Max, various Mitsus, and even Jeeps in the rest of the world do have relatively thrifty mpgs. Just look at the NEVER advertised Grand Cherokee diesels that have been available here for years. Why hasn't Chrysler been standing atop the world crowing about these? IDK, they sure made a fuss about it being offered in the Ram 1500 for a minute or two, but then nothing???? Who is squashing what should be the future of motoring here, not just the rest of the world? Personally I'd take an old foreign powered mechanical "gutless by today's standards" diesel from the '80s-'90s over these diesel powered, urine injected computers powering stuff today. ("70s Ford F series trucks with Isuzu 6BD1s or Perkins, GMs with 4-53 detroits, Lincolns with BMWs, and the string of Benzes and VWs) Diesels used to be "overbuilt" (HP:displacement/weight) but it was done so they would have a reliable duty cycle MANY times higher and longer than nearly any gas engine built (nat. gas powered stuff notwithstanding). Today's ignorant car buyers and bean counters see 6.0Ls and say that should easily be making 400+HP. They seem to have no idea that Tq is the name of the game with diesel fuel and that its more efficiently achieved at a lower RPM.
Guess its a good thing they don't work for the shipping industry or we'd never be able to afford anything imported! They couldn't wrap their "educated" minds around the concept of a big ship engine and the RPMs it operates at. "Why with that much displacement, I could make 1 meeeelion HP!"

Give me a mechanical 3.0L turbo diesel in an extended or crew cab Ranger or similar, and a 6BT powered full-sized 4wd straight axled shorty passenger van with a 5 speed manual and I would have virtually every road going vehicle I could conceivably need. And she would outlast and out mpg virtually anything comparably sized coming out of Detroit today and in good tune would likely match them emission-wise (definitely so if you were to compare them at 200K miles provided the new stuff made it that far without needing something.

 

[Viggen]

"Land Cruisers have gotten more plush but they also stayed true to making them offroad worthy mpgs be damned."

"... the LC and the offroad vehicles the rest of the world gets (not designed by US companies) is that they aren't built for speed (barring the Land Rover/BMW types). They are built with thrifty reliable diesels...."

I didn't know anything about LCs having a V8 diesel Must be those things they call Sequoias, eh? I only knew of LCs having an I6, and even whether gas or diesel I'd venture to say the choice was more to do with longevity and fuel availability in a specific part of the world.

The last I6 Cruiser was the 80. That was a LONG time ago. Sequoias are not Cruiser based. ROW Cruisers are available with the V8 diesel. Your ROW Rangers and such are better on fuel because they are physically SMALLER.

 

[twiisted71]

Your ROW Rangers and such are better on fuel because they are physically SMALLER.

They aren't any SMALLER than what we get here in the US. That is what I was comparing things to. I'm not arguing. Just pointing out that some vehicles are built better for certain activities and that even if not all that well built they can last "longer" than others because of the interest folks take in them as a vehicle more than their perceived utility.

I must admit my ignorance as I didn't know the Land Cruiser was still offered. Haven't seen a new one here in the South in more years than I can remember so I thought they had followed the route of other mfrs and dropped their flagship and went with the soccer mom version Sequoia. Given the pricing of these things I think there is NO WAY anyone in their right mind could go bailing off through the woods in one acting like it was a hardcore offroad vehicle like the landcruisers of old. I've never owned one myself as I felt I could build rigs that fit my particular needs stronger and cheaper as well as more able to find parts when needed. For those who aren't of the mindset to build a vehicle I fully understood the draw and admit they are one of the VERY few factory offerings I saw as a genuinely "good buy" despite their horrendous mpgs for a 6 cylinder. Did they completely quit offering a manual trans in them? Seems the stupidity of the American mfrs' bean counters have outlawed the stickshift in all but one full-sized truck!!

 

[calicamper]

They aren't any SMALLER than what we get here in the US. That is what I was comparing things to. I'm not arguing. Just pointing out that some vehicles are built better for certain activities and that even if not all that well built they can last "longer" than others because of the interest folks take in them as a vehicle more than their perceived utility.

I must admit my ignorance as I didn't know the Land Cruiser was still offered. Haven't seen a new one here in the South in more years than I can remember so I thought they had followed the route of other mfrs and dropped their flagship and went with the soccer mom version Sequoia. Given the pricing of these things I think there is NO WAY anyone in their right mind could go bailing off through the woods in one acting like it was a hardcore offroad vehicle like the landcruisers of old. I've never owned one myself as I felt I could build rigs that fit my particular needs stronger and cheaper as well as more able to find parts when needed. For those who aren't of the mindset to build a vehicle I fully understood the draw and admit they are one of the VERY few factory offerings I saw as a genuinely "good buy" despite their horrendous mpgs for a 6 cylinder. Did they completely quit offering a manual trans in them? Seems the stupidity of the American mfrs' bean counters have outlawed the stickshift in all but one full-sized truck!!

The LC is still a unique vehicle in the Toyota line up. The Tundra based Sequoia is longer and designed to directly compete with the GM Yukon / Short Suburban in the US Market which is also the largest auto market in the world. Two Neighbors have 2015 LC's parked next to their Tesla's the LC in the US is nothing remotely like the Tundra based Sequoia I own a Sequoia and sold my LC to purchase a Sequoia. I needed more seating space and didnt need a machine built to haul 4 people across the most rugged places on earth. I recall the 4.4L V8 Diesel came out several years ago more power, cleaner, more fuel efficient than the I6 which still is used. Africa imports new 60 series LCs built in Japan then converys them to 9 passenger safari buses with 9ply military grade tires. They are commercial machines not something every day people own and use for personal use. Far to costly for that type of use.

 

[twiisted71]

I did a bit of digging to see what I was missing. Perhaps I have seen Land Cruisers lately but didn't notice as they look almost exactly like the Sequoia to anyone not in the market researching both. Here is what I found about them that cleared things up for me.


"Toyota's two-vehicle, large-SUV strategy focuses on two very different buyers. Land Cruiser buyers are college-educated males and middle-aged, with a household income of $237,000. Almost half of them are married with children and use their SUV as a family hauler or for vacations.

Since its introduction, Sequoia had maintained one of the youngest buyers in the large-SUV segment with an average age of 40. It is a family hauler, since nearly 60 percent of Sequoia owners are married with children. They have an average household income of $106,000."

The differences I found in design are "neat" but with the prices they each run, atleast 99% will never see any more offroading in the US than cutting a corner too sharp and dropping the rear inside tire off the pavement. Pure status symbols for folks with deeper pockets than their neighbors---just as you posted about the guys with the Tesla stable mates for theirs. Seems like the solid rear axle and link suspension and a few other "upgrades" that could have been just been offered as a package on the Sequoia are about it. But that wouldn't be enough to stand out in the eyes of those one would be trying to impress. Sort of like a Suburban vs an Escalade. Very similar but one is at home at the country club while the other is typically bought for oilfield transport and soccer mom-ing about. I take no issue with someone buying a luxury vehicle at all. It is their money to spend as they like. We all like to have something we can show off. Living in S Fla where I constantly see 70-80 yo.s at the redlight next to me in the baddest AMG Merc, winged Vipers, 200 mph Astons, Jags, RuF Porsches you could imagine. In my neighbor hood there is an Excursion on ~54" military tires, an F150 baja pre-runner rig, 2-3 Raptors, a V10 RAm 1500, not even getting into all the race and muscle cars from the '60s. Only an "enthusiast" for certain marques could tell the difference about many vehicles though. Take a standard Mitsubishi vs an Evo rally car, or a commuter MB vs an AMG version of the same body, Expedition vs Navigator, Sequoia vs Lexus, vs Land Cruiser! It used to chap me when folks would ooh and aah over my "jeep" at a gas station. Couldn't those neophytes tell I was driving a '76 Ford Bronco!!! A jeep,,,INDEED!! LOL

With a 60-75K price tag you'd have a butt-load of money in price difference to throw at a Jeep Wrangler for upgrades. Wonder if that would be enuff to have a J8 imported or just have one built? If you couldn't spin your own wrenches a call to Bruiser's Conversions for a 4BT swap and some nice aftermarket axles with selectable lockers, skidplating, bumpers, and some conversion van company seats. Have a front cage upgrade done to up the safety level to rival the LC, opt for a set of nice 33" tires (about the biggest typically used on LCs) and call it done.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

US only problem my ***. There are many ******** can rust bucket Toyotas in Canada. They never made a special product for here. They are all JUNK.

Sorry, I tend to use "the US" and North America interchangeably. Canada is America's hat after all, act up and we'll send the Boy Scouts and call you North Montana!

The bulk of the Toyota's you get in the Canada, come from and are North America market vehicles, i.e the Tundra Tacoma, Sequoia, etc. Not vehicles used on a global scale and while some parts interchange, the manufacturing is predominately different.

You paint with a big brush yet recreate with your Jeep in what a 500 mile radius of home? Easy to get comfortable with any vehicle in your own backyard

All JUNK eh? Also the KBB Best Brand, top 2 KBB models for resale value and longevity on the road. I could go on and on. Easy to discredit those links... but with so many preaching the same thing from so many different angles... there must be some preponderance of truth to Toyota's lasting awhile no?

Look, you can drop your anecdotal "they all rust" & alll junk diatribe as much as you like and again I can find as many rusted Jeep pics as you can find rusted Toyota pics. Any vehicle not caed for will rust. I own a half-dozen Toyota's that spent 100% of their life in the elements and daily driven on Utah's salt winter roads... rust is no different than any other vehicle. Wash them and they last, don't and they will deteriorate. Btw, anyone ever mention that you sound like a joy to be out on the trail with LOL.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

They had an issue and fixed it. You can't say that about Toyota's head gaskets! I know you Toyota cool-aid drinkers would like the rest of us to think that head gaskets are a normal maintenance item but they are not...unless you drive a Toyota!

I've put a million+ miles on Toyota's, driven them around the world twice, raced the Baja 1000, Vegas to Reno, competed in competitive rock-crawling and own Toyota's ranging from 1965 (Stout) to 2008 (URJ200) and have never had a single failed head gasket. I sell & install Land Cruiser parts to hundreds of Land Cruiser owners each week, I sell more 1157 bulbs in day than I do head gaskets in a year. I think you've created a statistic in your head

The 3.8's were failing in the first year... If/when a Toyota head gasket would have failed in that time frame, they too would have "fixed it" no? The only Land Cruiser that perhaps has a head gasket preventative maintenance mantra is the FZJ80 (93-97) and failure rates of head gaskets are in the 5% range and in the 175-225k miles range. The Jeep 4.0L was known to have it's own issues... Land Cruiser owners just fix them before they have to be towed home

 

[kojackJKU]

Sorry, I tend to use "the US" and North America interchangeably. Canada is America's hat after all, act up and we'll send the Boy Scouts and call you North Montana!

The bulk of the Toyota's you get in the Canada, come from and are North America market vehicles, i.e the Tundra Tacoma, Sequoia, etc. Not vehicles used on a global scale and while some parts interchange, the manufacturing is predominately different.

You paint with a big brush yet recreate with your Jeep in what a 500 mile radius of home? Easy to get comfortable with any vehicle in your own backyard

All JUNK eh? Also the KBB Best Brand, top 2 KBB models for resale value and longevity on the road. I could go on and on. Easy to discredit those links... but with so many preaching the same thing from so many different angles... there must be some preponderance of truth to Toyota's lasting awhile no?

Look, you can drop your anecdotal "they all rust" & alll junk diatribe as much as you like and again I can find as many rusted Jeep pics as you can find rusted Toyota pics. Any vehicle not caed for will rust. I own a half-dozen Toyota's that spent 100% of their life in the elements and daily driven on Utah's salt winter roads... rust is no different than any other vehicle. Wash them and they last, don't and they will deteriorate. Btw, anyone ever mention that you sound like a joy to be out on the trail with LOL.

Don't worry, I am a joy. I have the best food, apres travel beverages, and I am one hell of a nice guy. I just like having fun here and getting some points across that 1. Jeeps are much better than the Toyota crowd gives them credit for, and 2. Toyotas are not the 100% reliable, float on a cloud of baby farts that Toyota crowd thinks. 3. They come to jeep forum, start blasting crap, then.....when opposed, go crying!

 

[ABEL4x4]

I have j90 3.4v6 200000km and two engine head broken on normal drive. I also have XJ for exterem off road 340000 km two times drive no cooling fluid 30km and is good condition Toyota is good but not best or the best. Jeep is cheep My opinion is you go to Africa or Australia buy Toyota go Europe buy Nissan Patrol go U.S buy Jeep :smiley_drive:

Sory for my English I am from Poland ;-)

 

[kojackJKU]

Sorry, I tend to use "the US" and North America interchangeably. Canada is America's hat after all, act up and we'll send the Boy Scouts and call you North Montana!

The bulk of the Toyota's you get in the Canada, come from and are North America market vehicles, i.e the Tundra Tacoma, Sequoia, etc. Not vehicles used on a global scale and while some parts interchange, the manufacturing is predominately different.

You paint with a big brush yet recreate with your Jeep in what a 500 mile radius of home? Easy to get comfortable with any vehicle in your own backyard

All JUNK eh? Also the KBB Best Brand, top 2 KBB models for resale value and longevity on the road. I could go on and on. Easy to discredit those links... but with so many preaching the same thing from so many different angles... there must be some preponderance of truth to Toyota's lasting awhile no?

Look, you can drop your anecdotal "they all rust" & alll junk diatribe as much as you like and again I can find as many rusted Jeep pics as you can find rusted Toyota pics. Any vehicle not caed for will rust. I own a half-dozen Toyota's that spent 100% of their life in the elements and daily driven on Utah's salt winter roads... rust is no different than any other vehicle. Wash them and they last, don't and they will deteriorate. Btw, anyone ever mention that you sound like a joy to be out on the trail with LOL.

If Canada is "Americas hat" does that mean America is canadas A Ss after all?

 

[Viggen]

If Canada is "Americas hat" does that mean America is canadas A Ss after all?

I am not sure how they teach anatomy up North but down here, we acknowledge that there are quite a few body parts between the top of the head and the buttocks.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I am not sure how they teach anatomy up North but down here, we acknowledge that there are quite a few body parts between the top of the head and the buttocks.

Win.