More design ideas/questions

[Mickldo]

After reading the roof design thread it got me thinking. What other design features should we look into. There are a couple of items I can think of that have pros and cons with how they are done.

I'll list a couple of design features below that we could discuss a bit further in depth but feel free to chime in with your own.

* Door location - side opening door or rear opening door.

* Window size and locations - small for privacy/security or large for ventilation/view (I live in the tropics)

* Side slide-out modules on off-road campers - strong enough or not

So what do you all reckon?

 

[whatcharterboat]

Hi Mick

Door location - side opening door or rear opening door.

Just my thoughts but no way on that one. Sure its universal if you are traveling through different countries and swapping from LHD to RHD that might be a hassle. I still think the cons out weigh the pros.

A) How can you ever tow anything?
2) Spares often get mounted on the back if the underside is not suitable.
III) Also this would be the only space for a rack for that new KTM 620 you were talking about.

Window size and locations - small for privacy/security or large for ventilation/view (I live in the tropics)

Where we are, ventilation, especially if you are trying to be energy efficient. Air/on is great if you are living in a vanpark and the small windows are fine but who wants that?

Other things play a big part in this too. The efficiency of your insulation and whether or not you have any ventilation up high so that they roof doesn't trap and build up heat. You saw the top the other day, no roof vents but big
zip down flaps in the sides whereas the motorhomes had a roof vent windows opposite one another for cross flow. Those tinted widows are neat too cause the fly screens retract into the frame from the bottom and the sun blind retracts from the top so you can have free airflow if desired.

 

[Mickldo]

Another would be the differences between setting the camper up for the tropics, for deserts or for arctic conditions.

It seems most of the campers on here are built to withstand arctic conditions with double glazing, insulation, floor heating, space heaters, etc.

Around here it is cold for about three days if you are lucky so these types of features don't rate as highly for this climate.

Tropical roofs, air-conditioning, ventilation, tinted windows and the insulation are more needed.

You could probably incorporate most of these features into the one camper for traveling through multiple areas. But because I am based in the tropics and most my shorter trips will be in this climate I'd like to explore more ideas for the warmer climate.

 

[whatcharterboat]

Tropical

It seems most of the campers on here are built to withstand arctic conditions

Yep you're right. And bears.LOL.
The most important thing for a vehicle such as RTW job has got to be insulation and window tint. I know it's just us talking here but it would be great to hear opinions from guys living in the cold.

We've set up a couple with deisel coolant heaters that plumb into the engine for keeping it warm overnight in sub zero temps. These are really easy to incorporate space heaters using small efficient computer fans so the power consumption is minimal. I've set these up plenty of different ways with or without hotwater tanks or heat exchangers. Sometimes with ignition triggered solenoid valves as an option so that the engine can be taken out of the loop if your not in sub zero temps. There is probably a whole thread just in deisel heating systems anyway.

 

[Mickldo]

Just my thoughts but no way on that one. Sure its universal if you are traveling through different countries and swapping from LHD to RHD that might be a hassle. I still think the cons out weigh the pros.

A) How can you ever tow anything?
2) Spares often get mounted on the back if the underside is not suitable.
III) Also this would be the only space for a rack for that new KTM 620 you were talking about.


Where we are, ventilation, especially if you are trying to be energy efficient. Air/on is great if you are living in a vanpark and the small windows are fine but who wants that?

Other things play a big part in this too. The efficiency of your insulation and whether or not you have any ventilation up high so that they roof doesn't trap and build up heat. You saw the top the other day, no roof vents but big
zip down flaps in the sides whereas the motorhomes had a roof vent windows opposite one another for cross flow. Those tinted widows are neat too cause the fly screens retract into the frame from the bottom and the sun blind retracts from the top so you can have free airflow if desired.

Hi John

I have been thinking recently that maybe a smaller, lighter camper might be better for me at the moment. I am thinking a chassis extension and dual cab conversion on my HZJ105 would allow me to run a tray mounted slide on camper.

I was thinking a couple of slide out units on each side would allow me to run a full size bed made up all the time. One of the slide outs could house the kitchen and with the design I have drawn up it could be accessed from inside and out. The other slide out could be for storage. Access to the camper would have to be from the rear though, hence my questions about door location. The side slide outs wouldn't need windows for a view because of the storage and kitchen blocking it. They would have gullwing doors for access to the slide outs, which could be opened for ventilation. Security could be a problem though....

Having to climb over the drawbar to get in once in a blue moon I do tow something is no biggy.

I'm thinking maybe spare tyres to go on the roof rack over the dual cab.

By allowing for the spares on the roof I could raise the height of the camper to give more headroom above the bed. I am not a huge fan of pop tops but am willing to look at them if I need the extra headroom or ventilation.

The construction technique I would use would allow me to run plenty of insulation.

Still need to find a spot for the 640 Adventure though

 

[Mickldo]

Yep you're right. And bears.LOL.
The most important thing for a vehicle such as RTW job has got to be insulation and window tint. I know it's just us talking here but it would be great to hear opinions from guys living in the cold.

We've set up a couple with deisel coolant heaters that plumb into the engine for keeping it warm overnight in sub zero temps. These are really easy to incorporate space heaters using small efficient computer fans so the power consumption is minimal. I've set these up plenty of different ways with or without hotwater tanks or heat exchangers. Sometimes with ignition triggered solenoid valves as an option so that the engine can be taken out of the loop if your not in sub zero temps. There is probably a whole thread just in deisel heating systems anyway.

I like the Webasto diesel heaters and hot water systems as well as their diesel cookers. High altitude won't bother me either unless I visit Mt Kosciusko so I hope they will be OK.

I'd want the camper easily removable from the tray so if I hooked into the engine heating circuit I'd need some sort of quick release hydraulic coupling for the coolant hoses???

Plumbing and wiring for the slide out modules might be difficult too.....

 

[Mickldo]

Yep you're right. And bears.LOL.

The only bears we have to worry about are those damn drop bears, right.

 

[whatcharterboat]

Mick

I am thinking a chassis extension and dual cab conversion on my HZJ105 would allow me to run a tray mounted slide on camper.

If you want to do this on a cruiser I'd be looking at putting the extra seating in the camper and better utilise that space for a dual purpose and forget the crew cab. Just don't think the cruiser will be long enough. Can only do this if the camper is permanent though.

Having to climb over the drawbar to get in once in a blue moon I do tow something is no biggy.

If you also have a good access from the cab , no it won't be a biggy. Again only if camper is permanent. No boat? Sorry KTM 640 not 620. What about that?

I'm thinking maybe spare tyres to go on the roof rack over the dual cab.

OK Can you get 2 up there? Should be able to.

High altitude won't bother me either unless I visit Mt Kosciusko so I hope they will be OK.

I'm sure they would be fine anywhere in Oz.

I'd want the camper easily removable from the tray so if I hooked into the engine heating circuit I'd need some sort of quick release hydraulic coupling for the coolant hoses???

Easier to keep the heat exchanger and diesel heater on the truck and quick connect the hot/cold lines going into the camper. Webasto are doing one now that is just a hot water heater/ hot water tank and space heater in one box. No coolant circuit to the motor. Maybe that would be a better option. Just have to give it a day tank for fuel like they do with caravans running diesel heaters.

Mate you must type way faster than me . Sorry.

 

[DontPanic42]

I am really enjoying this exchange and am learning a lot. I have been interested in retro fitting my camper with a diesel hot water system and cooker. I really want to lose the propane syetem. Here in the lower 48 and particularly the Republic of TEXAS, they act as you are out of your mind for suggesting such a thing. Can you point me towards some websites, vendors, or reference materials so that I can learn more about the systems and availability.
Thanks

 

[FusoFG]

Can you point me towards some websites, vendors, or reference materials so that I can learn more about the systems and availability.
Thanks

In my FG camper I have an Espar hydronic 5000, an Indel marine hot water heater and a wallas diesel cook top.

The espar and hot water heater are inter connected with the engine coolant system to provide engine pre heat, camper heat and hot water from either the engine or the espar.

The wallas works very well for us even though the mfr claims it doesn't work at high altitude.

Webasto offers the x100 cooktop, a new version of the wallas cook top for the rv market that includes a high altitude switch and a fan powered cooling shroud to reduce heat in the camper.

They also offer a combination diesel hot air furnace and diesel hot water heater made especially for rv market called the dual top.

If I had it to do over I would go with webasto products.

http://www.webasto-outdoors.com/en-us/

 

[ntsqd]

Drilling down to one spot of potential trouble. Mention was made of using hydraulic zero loss connectors as one method of removal while also allowing interconnected-ness. I worry about the o-rings & seals used in those connectors being compatible with hot coolant. Hot oils, no issue, but hot coolant might cause problems.

Absent any info on what polymers are used for those seals I would suggest using a liquid to liquid inter-cooler on the chassis, and heat the diesel fuel used in the coach. As it happens, diesel is a reasonable coolant and it is near enough to hydraulic oil that there should not be any troubles with the seals. Carefully thought out I believe that this could lead to fewer total tanks in the coach. Hot diesel also burns more cleanly than ambient temperature diesel due to better atomization.
Lest you think this is too wild and shouldn't be done, we're doing it at work. Our prototype 10Kw genset uses it's own diesel fuel for coolant first. That part of the system works quite well.

 

[whatcharterboat]

Diesel as coolant

Thom, first optional insulation for soft sided pop tops, then personal "pic posting " tech support and now this. What is you do at work again???????????? Whatever it is you're worth more money.

removal while also allowing interconnected-ness. I worry about the o-rings & seals used in those connectors being compatible with hot coolant. Hot oils, no issue, but hot coolant might cause problems.

Absolutely. That's why I said leave the coolant circuit (and tanks and pumps too) on the truck and only worry about inter connecting the hot / cold water into the camper. The "dual top" is the all in one unit I was referring to but it has its downsides.

No pre heat and importantly here, engine heating the coolant so that the diesel heater doesn't even need to fire up. Alot of the stuff we do for vehicles in hot weather only is to just have a heat exchanger in a hot water tank (with a supplementry electric element) plumb to the engine. When you pull up at night the water stays hot for ages. Got to go. Will continue this tonight.

Thom would the commute be that bad??LOL

 

[Mickldo]

If you want to do this on a cruiser I'd be looking at putting the extra seating in the camper and better utilise that space for a dual purpose and forget the crew cab. Just don't think the cruiser will be long enough. Can only do this if the camper is permanent though.


If you also have a good access from the cab , no it won't be a biggy. Again only if camper is permanent. No boat? Sorry KTM 640 not 620. What about that?



OK Can you get 2 up there? Should be able to.



I'm sure they would be fine anywhere in Oz.



Easier to keep the heat exchanger and diesel heater on the truck and quick connect the hot/cold lines going into the camper. Webasto are doing one now that is just a hot water heater/ hot water tank and space heater in one box. No coolant circuit to the motor. Maybe that would be a better option. Just have to give it a day tank for fuel like they do with caravans running diesel heaters.

Mate you must type way faster than me . Sorry.

I'd want to keep the cruiser so I could use it as a normal ute day to day. A mate of mine used to own a company here that did dual cab conversions and another mate does the chassis extensions. They have both said that they would give me a hand to do the conversion (I originally thought about doing it on my 80 when I was building it up).

My tinny is small enough that it would be easy enough to unhook it each night and swing it out of the way. When I win lotto and build my dream boat and wanted to take it on a trip I'd be able to leave the camper at home and sleep in the boat.

I don't plan on taking the bike with me when I take the cruiser. Can't take everything.

I only run 285/75R16 tyres which will fit two across the width of the vehicle but the roof narrows in a bit so it might have to have the roof rack stick out the sides a bit.

For the plumbing of the water I was thinking of having a decent sized tank on the vehicle to keep the weight down low and then having another water tank in the camper so it can be self sufficient if I want to set up a base camp somewhere and keep the vehicle free for launching and retrieving the boat or for doing day trips exploring, etc. I wouldn't need hot water on the vehicle so I'd have the hot water in the camper. Not sure if I will even bother hooking up coolant lines to the motor but it might be handy to use the "free" heat from the motor at the end of a days traveling rather than having to fire up the diesel heater. If I did hook up the coolant lines I was thinking of the quick disconnect Ryco hydraulic fittings. IIRC you can get them in stainless steel too so corrosion shouldn't be a problem. I'd use a small separate diesel tank too in the camper for the heater and cooker. For refilling this tank I was thinking a little electric fuel pump and a hose.

I already have a 40L Opposite Lock plastic water tank that I fitted to my 80 and a Whale pressure pump that I could use in the camper.

 

[Mickldo]

Drilling down to one spot of potential trouble. Mention was made of using hydraulic zero loss connectors as one method of removal while also allowing interconnected-ness. I worry about the o-rings & seals used in those connectors being compatible with hot coolant. Hot oils, no issue, but hot coolant might cause problems.

Absent any info on what polymers are used for those seals I would suggest using a liquid to liquid inter-cooler on the chassis, and heat the diesel fuel used in the coach. As it happens, diesel is a reasonable coolant and it is near enough to hydraulic oil that there should not be any troubles with the seals. Carefully thought out I believe that this could lead to fewer total tanks in the coach. Hot diesel also burns more cleanly than ambient temperature diesel due to better atomization.
Lest you think this is too wild and shouldn't be done, we're doing it at work. Our prototype 10Kw genset uses it's own diesel fuel for coolant first. That part of the system works quite well.

Hmm......Hadn't thought about the compatibility of the coolant and the QD connectors, will have to research that one.

Do you have diagrams, links, photos, anything to show us more about your gensets? I like the idea of the diesel for coolant, I would like to look into that a bit more.

I once had a bit of a design for an LPG cooled intercooler/ LPG pre heater.

 

[Mickldo]

Thom, first optional insulation for soft sided pop tops, then personal "pic posting " tech support and now this. What is you do at work again???????????? Whatever it is you're worth more money.



Absolutely. That's why I said leave the coolant circuit (and tanks and pumps too) on the truck and only worry about inter connecting the hot / cold water into the camper. The "dual top" is the all in one unit I was referring to but it has its downsides.

No pre heat and importantly here, engine heating the coolant so that the diesel heater doesn't even need to fire up. Alot of the stuff we do for vehicles in hot weather only is to just have a heat exchanger in a hot water tank (with a supplementry electric element) plumb to the engine. When you pull up at night the water stays hot for ages. Got to go. Will continue this tonight.

Thom would the commute be that bad??LOL

The webasto heat exchanger can hook up to the motor too. http://www.webasto.com.au/am/en/am_rv_calorifiers.html

I have a home made copper heat exchanger fitted to my 80 that I might be able convert to a coolant/diesel heat exchanger to do like Thom suggested.

Hmmm.....so many options.