More proof that Jeep is the leader in 4x4 overland vehicles

[DiploStrat]

... It is obvious I've never been in a third world country ...

I think that this is why folks are busting your chops. You don't seem to understand that wheelin' in the US is very different from overlanding in the Third World. Dirt may be dirt, but there is a lot more of it elsewhere. And then there are those pesky weight issues of carrying a week's worth of water and 1,000km of fuel. There is a reason that Toyota rules and the others don't, and it starts with a conscious decision by Toyota, made decades ago, to push Land Rover out of the African market. (A task which they have accomplished masterfully.)

Until a US (or, in the case of Jeep, an Italian company) company is willing to make the same effort to flood the Third World with lower cost, simple vehicles, and back them up with tons of spares, then Toyota will continue to be the first choice the world over. Does this mean that you should not use a Jeep to drive both ways around the world - possibly not, if you are willing to do your own work, supply your own spares, etc. (I have a Chevrolet.) But the fact remains that a Toyota Land Cruiser Troop Carrier with a diesel engine and 7.50x16 tires is the most common light 4x4 out there and the one you are most likely to be able to fix in the backwoods.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Hmmmm...well, I've spent time in the following countries:

Haiti
Zimbabwe
Hungary
Croatia
Bosnia
Afghanistan
Uzbekistan
Kuwait
Iraq
Costa Rica


American vehicles of any type are very rare outside North America from what I've seen, with the notable exception of Kuwait, where Chevrolet trucks and SUVs are very common, as well as full-size (Caprice Classic) type cars. The wealthy states of the Middle East (Kuwait and Saudi Arabia) are well suited for American vehicles because they have nice, smooth roads and cheap gas.

Outside there, though, the size of most American vehicles, their thirsty engines and their less-than-rugged construction makes them ill-suited for most developing nations.

In most of my travels, if you saw any American-branded vehicle, it was being driven by an American who was stationed or posted there. As far as off-road or overland-type vehicles, the only ones I saw in Zimbabwe were Toyota Land Cruisers, Land Rovers (some of which were built in South Africa under license by a company called "Santana"), Nissan patrols, Mitsubishi Pajeros, Lada Nivas, and other vehicles not sold in the US.

I've never seen a Wrangler-type Jeep outside the US unless it was being driven by an American who brought it over.

We did have some 2wd Cherokees in Kuwait but they had been there since the first Gulf War in 91 and were getting old and tired, and were soon replaced with either GMC Yukons or Toyota Prados.

 

[java]

:lurk:

Its been said. Use what works for you in your area.

 

[marcall]

I think that this is why folks are busting your chops. You don't seem to understand that wheelin' in the US is very different from overlanding in the Third World. Dirt may be dirt, but there is a lot more of it elsewhere. And then there are those pesky weight issues of carrying a week's worth of water and 1,000km of fuel. There is a reason that Toyota rules and the others don't, and it starts with a conscious decision by Toyota, made decades ago, to push Land Rover out of the African market. (A task which they have accomplished masterfully.)

Until a US (or, in the case of Jeep, an Italian company) company is willing to make the same effort to flood the Third World with lower cost, simple vehicles, and back them up with tons of spares, then Toyota will continue to be the first choice the world over. Does this mean that you should not use a Jeep to drive both ways around the world - possibly not, if you are willing to do your own work, supply your own spares, etc. (I have a Chevrolet.) But the fact remains that a Toyota Land Cruiser Troop Carrier with a diesel engine and 7.50x16 tires is the most common light 4x4 out there and the one you are most likely to be able to fix in the backwoods.

I fully understand other parts of the world off roading, but I do see your point. "Jeep" Jeep originated as a reconnaissance/scout vehicle and it was never intended to transport full loads. Other models in the Jeep line could be fitted to be fully adequete for long travel in Africa, Mongolia or wherever but obtaining parts would be more difficult for sure. The other thing about Jeep unlike Mercedes, Toyota, etc is that they and Land Rover (does Rover cars still exist?) are/were specific companies in that they bullt 4wd/off road vehicles in the 1/2 ton format (and a few 3/4 ton) and that was all, it was
/ is niche market company's. In the US market it is isolated from the glorified long distance travel continents such as Asia Africa and Australia so there was no need to build a platform to haul 200 gallons of gas by companies "niched" in the 1/2 ton marketplace. We've always had Cheverolet, Dodge and Ford trucks for hauling platforms. In todays age we have Ford super duty (what is it up to now, 750's or something?) to haul the big loads. Even an F350 equipped with a camper shell will have more hauling capabilitirs than a Toyota and it comes with a diesel.

I don't doubt Toyota and Land Rover has the market cornered in those parts of the world, many reasons why they do and as we all know once somethings got a hold it's hard to topple.

I'm not here to argue Jeep is the world leader in overland travel but to argue they can hold their own off road. like many threads in many forums the OP went in different directions and I'm addressing the Jeep in off road enviornment.

If I was to travel long distance "overland style" (God I hate that term ) in the North or south Americas (I'm a realist and I would never be traveling in Africa or elsewhere) then I'd probably go with an F450 super duty diesel. The Turtle expedition proved the worthiness decades ago (I was a Four Wheeler subscriber at the time and that series orf articles is one that sparked my off roading passion). At the same time the places you can go in a larger vehicle are limiting just as distance in a smaller vehicle is limiting.

So enough ranting, but that's my take. Different machines for different purposes and for different parts of the world. For an all around Vehicle though I think Cherokees, Land Rovers and Land Cruisers are about as good as it gets.

 

[marcall]

Hmmmm...well, I've spent time in the following countries:

Haiti
Zimbabwe
Hungary
Croatia
Bosnia
Afghanistan
Uzbekistan
Kuwait
Iraq
Costa Rica


American vehicles of any type are very rare outside North America from what I've seen, with the notable exception of Kuwait, where Chevrolet trucks and SUVs are very common, as well as full-size (Caprice Classic) type cars. The wealthy states of the Middle East (Kuwait and Saudi Arabia) are well suited for American vehicles because they have nice, smooth roads and cheap gas.

Outside there, though, the size of most American vehicles, their thirsty engines and their less-than-rugged construction makes them ill-suited for most developing nations.

In most of my travels, if you saw any American-branded vehicle, it was being driven by an American who was stationed or posted there. As far as off-road or overland-type vehicles, the only ones I saw in Zimbabwe were Toyota Land Cruisers, Land Rovers (some of which were built in South Africa under license by a company called "Santana"), Nissan patrols, Mitsubishi Pajeros, Lada Nivas, and other vehicles not sold in the US.

I've never seen a Wrangler-type Jeep outside the US unless it was being driven by an American who brought it over.

We did have some 2wd Cherokees in Kuwait but they had been there since the first Gulf War in 91 and were getting old and tired, and were soon replaced with either GMC Yukons or Toyota Prados.

I won't argue with any of that other than to say on the Jeep forum there are quite a few Europeans driving Cherokees (I stick to the WJ Grand Cherokee section), some of which are Iceland, England and Germany aas well as a Russia guy but I don't doubt they are far and few between compared to the Asian makes.

 

[DiploStrat]

I Can Argue This One Several Ways

Once you get beyond phanboi posturing, there are several elements at play here:

-- "Wheelin'" vs. Overlanding. For me (and scholars may differ) "overlanding" implies extended travel (say 30 days or more) on unpaved roads (think forest service roads) for tourism. Those conditions don't really exist in North America where it is much more common to drive down a paved road to take a trail.

-- The implication that "overlanding" involves travel outside of North America (or Europe) drives the requirements for extended capacities for food, fuel, water, and spare parts. Also means that living in the vehicle is more common than pitching a tent beside a vehicle.

So, for example, a trip to Baja California (in the old days) might be tough on the vehicle, it did not require that you have a way to procure new filters, tires, etc., months into and miles away from the start of your journey.

I was struck, on a recent trip to Colorado, by just how many Jeeps I actually saw on the "Jeep Trails." So there is no question that Jeeps can do well on rough roads, but, as noted above, lockers and rock sliders have very little to do with overlanding.

Further to Martin's point, above, it is worth nothing that Toyota does not sell any of their real Third World models in the US; the Toyotas that you find here are not at all the same as the vehicles you find in Africa.

All of that said, an American truck can be an excellent round the world vehicle. I would cite my own experiences with two Blazers in Africa and South America, for the better part of 20 years as an example. (http://www.pbase.com/diplostrat/sahara and http://www.pbase.com/diplostrat/bolivia76) (And, for the record, I owned a lovely Land Cruiser for three years as well.) American trucks don't suddenly stop working just because they leave the US, as noted by these folks who have driven their Tiger through 50 different countries: http://www.travelin-tortuga.com/Travelin-Tortuga/index.html

 

[SoCal Tom]

More proof that Jeep is the leader in 4x4 overland vehicles..Click Here

I think its funny that the jeep example in this video is not made by jeep. The body is after market, and the engine is not original equipment. My guess is that most of the running gear aren't stock either.
Tom

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: I love jeeps, but I can't personally agree that they are the best OVERLANDER--

I've never driven outta the US of A--off-road, so I have no idea what it's like in Africa/Saudi/Brazil. but

There's nowhere in the US of A, that my jeep won't go/can't go, but if it's outta Cal/Nv--I don't wanna go anymore-

The jeep Wrangler is the best off-road vehicle in the US-if you want an off-road vehicle-

If you want strict comfort/city/body saving/mileage, heh heh, it's still pretty close to the top-

One more for the Gipper-

:costumed-smiley-007:bike_rider: JIMBO

 

[JeepinJon]

If you look outside of North America Jeeps are more of a luxury toy. The video used as an example is in China where the super wealthy own Jeeps as play toys. These aren't people with limited budgets building these, or Jeeps that are being used as a multi purpose vehicle like they are in North America. Over seas it seems like the top off-road vehicle in terms of reliability, popularity, and reputation are Toyota FJs and Hilux pickups for the average person, and for the wealthier they are using the newer Tacoma style (not sure what they are called outside of NA), and Land Cruisers.

 

[RoyJ]

:lurk:

Its been said. Use what works for you in your area.

Bingo.

A LC70 that's easy to acquire parts for in Africa, all of a sudden becomes a part-less exotic in Norther BC. Same with the JDM right hand drive diesel 80 series that people love to import up here. Again, lovely world-travel platform, but just an expensive toy up here.

If you need anything for the drive-train, Toyota Canada/US will NOT stock them as regular items, or even be able to order them.

 

[K2ZJ]

I think its funny that the jeep example in this video is not made by jeep. The body is after market, and the engine is not original equipment. My guess is that most of the running gear aren't stock either.
Tom

How many expedition vehicles are fully stock? No bumper, tire or intake changes? Can one be driven off the showroom floor, loaded with gear and head into the bush? I know that there are dealerships that will install and warranty AEV installations, which includes a motor swap.

I love my Jeep, but it is a Grand Cherokee, so does that even count as a Jeep?

NHSTA is ruining vehicles of all types. So many standards are set that force car companies who want to sell in the US to do things they may not want to do. Like was mentioned earlier about the Land Rover Defender I believe, they wouldn't put in airbags so no more US sales or imports. We have ever more stringent restrictions on emissions, mpg's and safety features that cars are becoming more ambiguous. The next Wrangler may have IFS simply to drop weight up front to help with these restrictions.

 

[RoyJ]

-- "Wheelin'" vs. Overlanding. For me (and scholars may differ) "overlanding" implies extended travel (say 30 days or more) on unpaved roads (think forest service roads) for tourism. Those conditions don't really exist in North America where it is much more common to drive down a paved road to take a trail.

I do agree with the point you're trying to make. In fact, too often we see rigs built up by members that's more about "wheeling" than overlanding, where lockers, sliders, and crazy RTI is not needed nearly as much as payload, fuel economy, and overall reliability.

However, as international overlanding is outside of reach by MOST members (correct me if I'm wrong), I'd say there're actually 3 categories - 1) day long "wheeling"; 2) 2 days to a few weeks domestic overlanding; and 3) multi-week to multi-year international overlanding.

A Jeep or domestic truck/SUV (which included Foreign make domestic market SUVs like 4Runner and Xterra) is perfectly fine for the first two, and may even be better due to local parts availability.

The third type of travel requires a vastly different type of vehicle and vehicle setup. No doubt a LC70 or Defender 110 would be better.

 

[SoCal Tom]

A few years back my daily driver was an XJ, and my off road rig was an early bronco. An XJ forum was planning an outing and I asked if I could bring the EB. They said no. So I made a plan to move the EB running gear to the XJ, but due to time I had to keep the EB frame. Since the wheel wells were in the wrong place I had to put the EB body on it. It took me almost an hour to put on the XJ stickers

. Tom

 

[shays4me]

I see very few vehicles on here or elsewhere that are truly expedition builds. Most of the vehicles I see on here are just a collection of all the cool aftermarket accessories a person can fit on there vehicle. In turn this often makes a vehicle less fuel efficient, heavier and less reliable. On the Jeep side I see mostly rock crawler builds that are being called "expo" when they're clearly not. Most of them would not be pleasant to drive on a long road trip, much less across a continent. In the gun world they call it "tacticool" but I haven't seen a name for it here yet. As for me, I hope to see even more capable off road machines from every builder, but we're a dying breed in vehicle use. More and more SUVs are built for the highways of the first world as opposed to third world conditions and the reason is purely economic. Look at the new Range Rover for instance. Who in their right mind would consider a vehicle like that to be suited for off road? Those ground effects say one thing to me, and that's urban professional. They're selling an image more than anything. It's not that I'm a Land Rover hater either, it's just the way things are these days. Vehicles are designed for the niche of the market they're trying to sell in and the LR and TLC vehicles are clearly marketed for urban professionals, while the Jeep Wrangler is marketed for us hillbilly, tooth missing, trailer trash hillbillies.

 

[marktutone]

I think its funny that the jeep example in this video is not made by jeep. The body is after market, and the engine is not original equipment. My guess is that most of the running gear aren't stock either.
Tom

I did not mean to say that the jeep featured was proof but the enthusiasm of Indonesian people for the jeep was proof. There were many other jeeps in the video.