More proof that Jeep is the leader in 4x4 overland vehicles

[Omar Brannstrom]

The JKU has a lighter duty frame, lighter duty suspension, lighter duty transmission/transfer case, and lighter duty brakes. The axels are defiantly capable of more weight because if you look at GVWR the Defender and LC 70's are much heavier vehicles as well. Those two are built more like a full-size truck here in north america which are capable of similar payloads. It seems to be a lot of all those things that when combined together make a difference in the rating. It could be an impact to the differences in safety standards between trucks and SUV's. It could be Jeep not wanting to rate it higher so that almost anybody modifying, loading and using it can never sue them because they can always come back with the "well you were operating it above the GVWR, an operating condition not certified, studied, or authorised..."

I never understood how Jeep couldn't rate the Rubicon version here in the States with a higher payload capacity. But again the main things upgraded are the axles, suspension (and maybe brakes?). Leaving the other parts as the limiting step maybe. So in North America a Rubicon version will come with a lower payload capacity than a non Rubicon version due to the added weight of the modifications... I know confusing but again not everything related to payload capacity was upgraded...



I am not sure where you are located but if the safety thing is a big concern for you I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the safety, payload, and capability of the Toyota 4 Runner for overland travel. If I remember right it is about 680kg payload. Gets better fuel economy than any of those listed above allowing you to drive the same distance with less fuel weight (another plus to perceived payload capacity). Easily upgrades front and rear bumpers and locking differentials. Remember the payload spec on the JKU is for the base. Add on the hard top (vs soft top) and things go down. Now if you strip it down you could easily take off 100kg (lighter seats, no rear seats, soft top, full soft doors, etc. and your payload goes up allowing you to add on some critical stuff and keep payload good (remember larger tires kill payload very very fast).



I have to admit if it came down to me needing to buy a new vehicle in north america it would be between the JKU and 4 Runner with the 4 Runner probably winning. If I had the choice of any vehicle made it would be a Defender 110 HC or Landcruiser HDJ79.

Howdy I come from Sweden, Europe and have a unlimited Rubicon with payload of 545kg with hardtopp.

"The JKU has a lighter duty frame, lighter duty suspension, lighter duty transmission/transfer case, and lighter duty brakes" I do think so to but I have no facts for it or link or test or pictures, but if looked at payload do they have three times as big and sturdy stuff of the above things, I dont really think so.I do think that they have higher payload because there are trucks and Wrangler is a SUV, and therefore have different payload ratings besides that the are sturdier. But do some one have real facts, links etc that a Defender have more heavy duty brakes compared to a Wrangler. I know that US wranglers (11.8" rotors) have small brakes compared to the Australians and probably all export wranglers that have 13.25" rotors and bigger callipers. "07 to 09 have the same brakes as the US guys, export models upgraded for the 2010 model to the 332mm 13.25" front discs" from http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124592&page=2
I think wrangler export models have similar brakes like TeraFlex Front Big Brake Kit http://www.quadratec.com/products/12700_4200_07.htm
That could be one of the reason that US rubicon unlimited has a payload of 405kg, compared to my European spec rubicon unlimited that has a payload of 545kg with hardtop. Can you fit a even bigger brakes to a export Wrangler? will they fit? I wonder? Is it then possible that a Defender can fit bigger brakes on there wheels that are about the same as the Wrangler, I doubt that and here they say that Defender have lousy brakes https://translate.google.se/transla...rbel-bei-den-haendlern-731019.html&edit-text=

You wrote "Those two are built more like a full-size truck here in north america which are capable of similar payloads. It seems to be a lot of all those things that when combined together make a difference in the rating. It could be an impact to the differences in safety standards between trucks and SUV's. It could be Jeep not wanting to rate it higher so that almost anybody modifying, loading and using it can never sue them because they can always come back with the "well you were operating it above the GVWR, an operating condition not certified, studied, or authorised..."
The 70 series trooper is probably like a US full size truck but probably not the other smaller 70 series and the Defender is actually shorter than a Wrangler and less wide and have shorter wheelbase. I do think You are right that I also wrote before that the rating is probably different on SUV compared to trucks. As I wrote before that Toyota landcruiser 150 (prado?), payload 570kg, Jeep Wrangler unlimited, payload 545kg, Landrover Discovery LR4, payload 650kg are probably in SUV payload rating and there for lower? I think Jeep for safety sake have low payload to avoid problems in tests like this Grand cheroke that failed the famous moose test, se the movies


But Jeep listened and 2014 is great
http://teknikensvarld.se/this-is-how-the-new-jeep-grand-cherokee-2014-handles-the-moose-test-117095/

Toyota 4runner looks great but what I can se it is not for sale in Europe or in Australia http://www.toyota.com.au/home or in South Africa http://www.toyota.co.za/. Is 4runner only for America?
And the Toyota Fj cruiser aint for sale in Europe

 

[Viggen]

Here in newfoundland, the base 4 runner trail edition is 44,900. the base model rubicon unlimited is 42,100. The big difference is financing rates. The jeep comes in at about 245 bi weekly and the 4 runner is 430 for the same duration. OUCH. Mark another win on Jeeps tick box.

Not sure in other parts of the continent, but the Japanese always have out to lunch interest rates for financing and leasing.

Ahhh, but whose do you think will depreciate faster. Hint: It is not the Toyota.

 

[Ryanmb21]

Just noticed something with the 4 runner, mounting a winch or armor on it is going to be a major PITA, and I am not sure how companies like ARB are going to make anything for the front end when the bumper wraps the whole front end. Mall crawler design there. The skid place looks like a flimsy piece of aluminum as well. almost like the early 90s IFS skids, a fly landing on it the right way would dent it. and make sure you rust check the frame, they are into the replacement of the chasis phase of the first run tundras here now. Chasis is swiss cheese in many of them around here. Great engineering there.

Hahha!

I'm sorry bud, but you're so clueless I'm going to have you add you my ignore list. I didn't come here to get dumber.

 

[kojackJKU]

Ahhh, but whose do you think will depreciate faster. Hint: It is not the Toyota.

I know its the Toyota who will depreciate faster, I have been offered 25k for my jeep now and turned it down.

 

[kojackJKU]

How about you take yourself back to the Toyota forms ryan....that would make you really smart. BTW, that looks horrible...just slap it on the front....really awesome....POOR ARB having to put out a product like that.

 

[Viggen]

I know its the Toyota who will depreciate faster, I have been offered 25k for my jeep now and turned it down.

Limited availability market for you. In an area that is not an island with many choices and dealership networks, the Toyota 4Runner and Tacoma depreciate at a glacial pace.

 

[kojackJKU]

there are lots of Toyota dealers here on the island, just a fact that jeeps hold there value better than Toyotas.

 

[Idahoan]

Just an observation... Maps identify jeep trails

 

[kojackJKU]

Just an observation... Maps identify jeep trails

There ya go. put to bed! ha ha

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Just an observation... Maps identify jeep trails

They also note where jeeps cant go...Hmmm

Toyota sets not limits

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I know its the Toyota who will depreciate faster, I have been offered 25k for my jeep now and turned it down.

You have been living in a box if you believe a Toyota will depreciate faster

Being offered and getting 25K is no different then saying I could of got laid but I turned it down LOL

There are 35 year old stock Toyota selling for 100K+:rockon: No jeep old, new, modified even one owned by Justin Bieber or BoyGeorge has ever sold for 100K

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: That's because the Map Makers don't even consider info from Toyots/Lancruisers-----

Valuable enough to mention-

Truth can be painful !

:costumed-smiley-007:bike_rider: JIMBO

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

:sombrero: That's because the Map Makers don't even consider info from Toyots/Lancruisers-----

Valuable enough to mention-

Truth can be painful !

:costumed-smiley-007:bike_rider: JIMBO

It would be a conflict of interest because they used Land Cruiser to survey the maps for jeeps and others

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: I thought this thread was getting cheap and degrading and I was right-

The Landcruisers/Toyotas/Jeeps and FJ40s all have their "NITCH" in our off-road-

I won't participate in this thread any more-

It would be a conflict of interest because they used Land Cruiser to survey the maps for jeeps and others

:snorkel::snorkel: JIMBO

 

[aluke0510]

Howdy I come from Sweden, Europe and have a unlimited Rubicon with payload of 545kg with hardtopp.

"The JKU has a lighter duty frame, lighter duty suspension, lighter duty transmission/transfer case, and lighter duty brakes" I do think so to but I have no facts for it or link or test or pictures, but if looked at payload do they have three times as big and sturdy stuff of the above things, I dont really think so.I do think that they have higher payload because there are trucks and Wrangler is a SUV, and therefore have different payload ratings besides that the are sturdier. But do some one have real facts, links etc that a Defender have more heavy duty brakes compared to a Wrangler. I know that US wranglers (11.8" rotors) have small brakes compared to the Australians and probably all export wranglers that have 13.25" rotors and bigger callipers. "07 to 09 have the same brakes as the US guys, export models upgraded for the 2010 model to the 332mm 13.25" front discs" from http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124592&page=2
I think wrangler export models have similar brakes like TeraFlex Front Big Brake Kit http://www.quadratec.com/products/12700_4200_07.htm
That could be one of the reason that US rubicon unlimited has a payload of 405kg, compared to my European spec rubicon unlimited that has a payload of 545kg with hardtop. Can you fit a even bigger brakes to a export Wrangler? will they fit? I wonder? Is it then possible that a Defender can fit bigger brakes on there wheels that are about the same as the Wrangler, I doubt that and here they say that Defender have lousy brakes https://translate.google.se/transla...rbel-bei-den-haendlern-731019.html&edit-text=

You wrote "Those two are built more like a full-size truck here in north america which are capable of similar payloads. It seems to be a lot of all those things that when combined together make a difference in the rating. It could be an impact to the differences in safety standards between trucks and SUV's. It could be Jeep not wanting to rate it higher so that almost anybody modifying, loading and using it can never sue them because they can always come back with the "well you were operating it above the GVWR, an operating condition not certified, studied, or authorised..."
The 70 series trooper is probably like a US full size truck but probably not the other smaller 70 series and the Defender is actually shorter than a Wrangler and less wide and have shorter wheelbase. I do think You are right that I also wrote before that the rating is probably different on SUV compared to trucks. As I wrote before that Toyota landcruiser 150 (prado?), payload 570kg, Jeep Wrangler unlimited, payload 545kg, Landrover Discovery LR4, payload 650kg are probably in SUV payload rating and there for lower? I think Jeep for safety sake have low payload to avoid problems in tests like this Grand cheroke that failed the famous moose test, se the movies


But Jeep listened and 2014 is great
http://teknikensvarld.se/this-is-how-the-new-jeep-grand-cherokee-2014-handles-the-moose-test-117095/

Toyota 4runner looks great but what I can se it is not for sale in Europe or in Australia http://www.toyota.com.au/home or in South Africa http://www.toyota.co.za/. Is 4runner only for America?
And the Toyota Fj cruiser aint for sale in Europe

Yes payload capacities of a lot of similar vehicles are lower for North America. But then again they aren't the exact same vehicle... The crappy thing is there is nothing you can do to legally increase the payload capacity even if you beef everything up.

Defender frame is a significantly larger box than a Jeep. I don't have any actual measurements but if you put them side by side you will be very surprised. From everything I have seen the frames of the high payload capacity LC's, Defenders, and full-size american trucks are all in the same class which is stronger. If Jeep made it that strong they would see a significant drop in frame flex would take people away from the 4x4 trail class (remember different class to overlanding).

I am not trying to debate that the Jeep isn't more stable at speed or more stable at the maximum GVWR than the others. But that is less relevant discussion to our topic. If you have seen them all side by side or driven everything it is hard to debate that the Jeep just isn't built for loads the same as the LC's, Defenders (regardless of 90,110, or 130), and full-size US trucks. The market for these wasn't high speeds. The original market for all of these three was load carrying working vehicles capable of rough terrain.

The fact that the Defender is shorter and narrower doesn't change how it is built. A 90 is mostly the same as a 110 with different length bodies and wheelbases. Indicating that they are actually downgrading the capacity of the 90 based on stability than on ratings for parts. And is the actual body on a Defender narrower than a Jeep? Jeeps have such huge fender flares and axles/tires that stick out well past the body in comparison. Interior width on a Defender feels a couple inches wider.

Nope the 4Runner is not just for America. It is Japan, used to be available in Australia until toyota decided to focus sails toward the Prado instead of multiple vehicles in the same size (Surf I think is what it was called), South America, and Southern Africa until they decided to focus sales efforts on the very similar Fortuner. In fact the 4Runner is still one of the few Toyota's not manufactured in the US and still imported from Japan. It is funny that Toyota keeps so many models running around that are all in a very similar class (Prado, 4Runner, Fortuner, and 80 series for a while). Toyota FJ Cruiser was a running/rolling shortened chassis of the 4Runner with different body obviously.

If you can travel light, keep modifications to a minimum, and focus on weight reductions the Jeep can capable. But if you apply the same practices to other working trucks you can stay out longer. There are very clear advantages to vehicles with higher payload capacity but you also have to balance the fuel economy. I made a big spreadsheet when I decided on my vehicle comparing the payload capacity normalised to a 750mile range (that is taking the fuel weight out of the payload capacity for traveling 750miles at the city fuel economy rating). You find that a vehicle like the 4Runner comes out ahead of the LC 100 or 200 even though they start with higher payload capacity. But high payload working 4x4's still come out ahead especially when you look at overseas diesel options.