highlandercj-7
Explorer
What size tubing are you using for the frame? I can't wait to hear what this thing weighs:Wow1:
My Backcountry Camper Trailer Build
- Thread starter R_Lefebvre
- Start date
Titanpat57
Expedition Leader
I mean as good as you are with welding....why not just make the extensions you need out of 1/8" plate and have exactly what you want. You sure as hell don't lack in creativity.
Any chance of dropping the water tank through the floor to make it flush with the top of the finished framing, and protecting it form the bottom?
just shootin' from the hip..sorry
"If it was easy..everyone would be doing it"..lol
Any chance of dropping the water tank through the floor to make it flush with the top of the finished framing, and protecting it form the bottom?
just shootin' from the hip..sorry
"If it was easy..everyone would be doing it"..lol
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Extensions? I'm not quite sure what we're talking about anymore. Argument in another thread has me all flustered.
If I dropped the tank, it would be the lowest thing on the the trailer. I don't think it's a worthwhile sacrifice. The trailer will already have more than enough interior volume. One of the main design ideas was to keep everything internal.
2x4x.125 on the main frame. 2x2 on the superstructure. I only bought about 1300lbs of steel to start with, so minus the scrap... I don't think it'll be that much more than the other large cargo trailers with all the bells and whistles.
Titanpat57
Expedition Leader
Sorry Rob..thought you planning on adding small fender flairs..misread a few post back. Good idea keeping the main goodies internal
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Oh, ok. I thought about it, but it ended up that the wheels tuck into the sides without needing any flairs. Remember, this thing is 72" wide already. I was trying to maximize space, and minimize drag. Flairs give you 2" more overall width, and thus drag, yet add nothing to cargo volume.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Wow, has it been 21 days since my last posting.... Things have slowed down as summer is here, but I'm inching closer to the painting stage. Lots of little details that take a while, such as the fenders are done inside. I've got the front doors done, I just need to put a bit of angle iron inside to support the sleeping and kitchen quarters, and I'll start painting.
Here you can see the front door with the hinges and latches I used. You can also see the camp stove I picked up. When I saw this one with an oven, I had to have it. It'll really expand the possibilities of what can be cooked. I have to decide between putting it up in this place, or putting it behind the vertical door on a slide with the cooler/fridge. Behind the horizontal door, it's a little high, behind the vertical door, it's a little low.
Here are some details on the inside of the door. I built a frame out of 1" 1/8" tube. I could have left it just the plate and it might have worked, but it wasn't stiff enough to make seals work well. Now I can even double seal it. The sheet metal overlaps the superstructure of the body.
These doors swing nice and latch with a satisfying clink.
Also, I managed to get a pretty good match for the paint on the truck. I went to Sherwin Williams and got an industrial enamel. They did a good job on the colour match, which I couldn't get with Tremclad (like Rustoleum for you Yanks
)
Here you can see the front door with the hinges and latches I used. You can also see the camp stove I picked up. When I saw this one with an oven, I had to have it. It'll really expand the possibilities of what can be cooked. I have to decide between putting it up in this place, or putting it behind the vertical door on a slide with the cooler/fridge. Behind the horizontal door, it's a little high, behind the vertical door, it's a little low.
Here are some details on the inside of the door. I built a frame out of 1" 1/8" tube. I could have left it just the plate and it might have worked, but it wasn't stiff enough to make seals work well. Now I can even double seal it. The sheet metal overlaps the superstructure of the body.
These doors swing nice and latch with a satisfying clink.
Also, I managed to get a pretty good match for the paint on the truck. I went to Sherwin Williams and got an industrial enamel. They did a good job on the colour match, which I couldn't get with Tremclad (like Rustoleum for you Yanks
)Attachments
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Titanpat57
Expedition Leader
Here's a paint I just used to spray some tables at the college where I work. They were the only manufacturer who would recommend a product. The tables were the rubber coated wire type picnic tables and benches..holy ******** did the stuff come out good. I applied it with a HVLP setup we have. The benches that were done a year ago don't look any different then the benches I just did.
Since you started your build I really started re-thinking my frame setup. I'm happy with everything from the tub up, but the underneth just is isn't what I want. I'm thinking something built out of 2" x 3" tube with a 3500# lb. axle w/brakes. Anyways...good progress and it's coming together nicely..here's the paint link if you want to take a look.
http://www.endura.ca/
Let's keep the updates a little closer together...sitting on the edge of my chair the last 20 days..that's just cold
Since you started your build I really started re-thinking my frame setup. I'm happy with everything from the tub up, but the underneth just is isn't what I want. I'm thinking something built out of 2" x 3" tube with a 3500# lb. axle w/brakes. Anyways...good progress and it's coming together nicely..here's the paint link if you want to take a look.
http://www.endura.ca/
Let's keep the updates a little closer together...sitting on the edge of my chair the last 20 days..that's just cold
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I'll probably end up taking some vacation days to get this thing done... so hopefully it won't take too much longer. Well, I'm sure it'll never be "finished" but at least get it usable.
Scott Brady
Founder
How much do you believe this trailer will weigh, once loaded with gear?
Do you have a weight of your DII in its current configuration?
It will be interesting to see what the total available payload will be and remaining available for GCVWR.
Did you consider a leaf-sprung suspension with dampers? I have found the torsion suspensions to be destructive on equipment stored in a trailer. Of course the independent suspension on the AT units are incredible, but would be a serious expense and fabrication undertaking.
In the spirit of being constructive, for trail use, the distance from the ball to the trailer tires should be close to the wheelbase of the tow vehicle to ensure the trailer tracks closely to the line of the truck in a turn, which will be critical in rocks and ruts. In addition, the long draw bar and distance from the coupler to the wheels will almost certainly encourage a heavy tongue weight. The additional tongue weight will need to be subtracted from the DIIs payload (you may already know all this, but I am mentioning it for the benefit of others monitoring the thread).
If the truck and trailer will just be used on easy tracks, that is less of a concern, but in technical terrain, the weight of a trailer is critical, as that weight must be pulled and the weight is over an axle without the benefit of drive.
Keep us informed of your progress, and make sure to post up pictures of the first adventure you have with it!
Do you have a weight of your DII in its current configuration?
It will be interesting to see what the total available payload will be and remaining available for GCVWR.
Did you consider a leaf-sprung suspension with dampers? I have found the torsion suspensions to be destructive on equipment stored in a trailer. Of course the independent suspension on the AT units are incredible, but would be a serious expense and fabrication undertaking.
In the spirit of being constructive, for trail use, the distance from the ball to the trailer tires should be close to the wheelbase of the tow vehicle to ensure the trailer tracks closely to the line of the truck in a turn, which will be critical in rocks and ruts. In addition, the long draw bar and distance from the coupler to the wheels will almost certainly encourage a heavy tongue weight. The additional tongue weight will need to be subtracted from the DIIs payload (you may already know all this, but I am mentioning it for the benefit of others monitoring the thread).
If the truck and trailer will just be used on easy tracks, that is less of a concern, but in technical terrain, the weight of a trailer is critical, as that weight must be pulled and the weight is over an axle without the benefit of drive.
Keep us informed of your progress, and make sure to post up pictures of the first adventure you have with it!
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
The structure of the trailer itself including all running gear should come in at about 15-1600 lbs, based on the recorded weights of all the materials I have bought to date. I'm expecting a finished weight of 2000lbs with the RTT and kitchen installed. From there, I don't see myself bringing more than 500lbs of gear, giving a total weight of 2500lbs. The absolute maximum weight, based on the axle, is 3500lbs. This would only be achieved when motorcycles are loaded, and it would never be used "off-road" for any distance when loaded like that.
I do not have a published GCVWR for the truck, but I do have the GVWR and Trailer weights. The trailer at 3500lbs will be well under the 7700lb tow rating of the truck. In fact, the off-road weight rating is 2200lbs. If I reach 2500lbs, I'm not too concerned. The key point here is that I will have minimal weight IN the truck. There is no roof rack, no cargo system, etc. The only thing in the truck will be people, recovery gear, some comfort items, and survival items. That is the precise reason I decided to build the trailer. To get the weight of the camping gear OUT of the truck.
I draw a comparison here to the AT Horizon, because AT is sort of a benchmark. It weighs 1100lbs empty, to my ~1600lbs. So mine is about 50% heavier. The D2 has a curb weight of 4700lbs, compared to a 3200lbs TJ. So, the two setups scale well.
Some people seem to be basing their impression of the trailer on flawed perceptions. Yes, it's large. But the construction is very efficient. It's all within one structure. There are no boxes, or bolted on fenders. Those are inefficient usages of weight and space. A bolted on fender has more wind resistance than a fleetside, and yet you lose all the storage space in front and behind the wheel. It's also not as large as some think. All of the interior pictures use a wide angle lens which fisheyes the image a bit. The trailer has the same track width as the truck, and it will be the same height with the RTT installed. The box is only 90" long.
There's also been some criticisizm of the CG. Again, based on flawed perceptions. My CG is ~42" just based on a simple calculation assuming the box is of uniform weight. In fact, the CG will be even lower, since frame weighs much more than the roof. Using the same technique to estimate the CG of a Horizon, I get 39". That's based on the typical 35" tire size, with 24" of ground clearance. I chose to stick with 29" tires, and 18" ground clearance. The trailer is taller than a Horizon, but the frame is also 6" lower. That's why the CG isn't too high. Further, my water tank is tucked into the frame, not standing up on the tongue, and various other things like that that keep the weight down. It's also important to note that my track width is 6" wider.
The intent of the trailer is not to load it full of gear. It is designed to be a combination of a "teardrop" style living quarters, combined with an RTT and additional storage. My wife and I will sleep in the RTT, the kids will sleep in the body of the trailer. There's a huge space that will be their room, and contain nothing more than clothing and toys. The other side will have a permanently configured kitchen for quick setup, like on the back of a teardrop. Again, this takes up a lot of space, but not as much weight as one would think based on the size.
How do you find torsion axles destructive? I have found them to ride much smoother than any leaf spring. In hindsight, I probably should have done leafs because they are rugged and reliable. But I'll give these shot. I have an idea to fix the reliability problem they have.
How does the hitch configuration "encourage" high tongue weight? The tongue weight has a large leverage on the rear axle, true. But I do not plan to have a lot of tonque weight. My experience shows me that you don't need tons of tongue weight with a relatively light trailer. A tongue weight of 200lbs won't be a big problem. Yes, it subtracts from the cargo weight of the truck, but as I said earlier, I don't intend to carry much in the truck.
I completely understand the issues of weight and pulling the trailer around off-road. I've already mentioned the scale of this trailer and D2 compared to a Horizon and TJ. But, I should also point out that I do not intend to be doing any radical trails with it. It's more of a "basecamp" setup. The trailer was a huge compromise because it needed to fill so many roles. Off-road camping, support for Enduro events (carrying motorcycles), as well as a nice family camping platform that will also get used in campgrounds. The goal was quick deployment of camp, lots of warm and dry space for a family of 4, the ability to carry a dirtbike on the tongue, space for other bulky and light items like a portable toilet, etc.
I appreciate your questions, and hope my response is not interpreted to be defensive. I'm just responding to questions and comments I've seen in various places. A lot of thought went into this design. It's different, and it is larger than what's been done before. My truck is not a radical build, and likewise I don't intend to drag this trailer though radical trails. I just want something that can withstand rough roads, and go on somethign like a class 2 trail. Then setup camp, and tackle the 3+ trails with an empty truck. If I do want to go camping at the end of a class 3 trail, then I'll simply leave the trailer home, and use the lightweight gear I already have.
I'll just attach another picture from a different angle so the scale of it can be better sensed. It looks pretty wide back there, but the track width is the same as the truck.
I do not have a published GCVWR for the truck, but I do have the GVWR and Trailer weights. The trailer at 3500lbs will be well under the 7700lb tow rating of the truck. In fact, the off-road weight rating is 2200lbs. If I reach 2500lbs, I'm not too concerned. The key point here is that I will have minimal weight IN the truck. There is no roof rack, no cargo system, etc. The only thing in the truck will be people, recovery gear, some comfort items, and survival items. That is the precise reason I decided to build the trailer. To get the weight of the camping gear OUT of the truck.
I draw a comparison here to the AT Horizon, because AT is sort of a benchmark. It weighs 1100lbs empty, to my ~1600lbs. So mine is about 50% heavier. The D2 has a curb weight of 4700lbs, compared to a 3200lbs TJ. So, the two setups scale well.
Some people seem to be basing their impression of the trailer on flawed perceptions. Yes, it's large. But the construction is very efficient. It's all within one structure. There are no boxes, or bolted on fenders. Those are inefficient usages of weight and space. A bolted on fender has more wind resistance than a fleetside, and yet you lose all the storage space in front and behind the wheel. It's also not as large as some think. All of the interior pictures use a wide angle lens which fisheyes the image a bit. The trailer has the same track width as the truck, and it will be the same height with the RTT installed. The box is only 90" long.
There's also been some criticisizm of the CG. Again, based on flawed perceptions. My CG is ~42" just based on a simple calculation assuming the box is of uniform weight. In fact, the CG will be even lower, since frame weighs much more than the roof. Using the same technique to estimate the CG of a Horizon, I get 39". That's based on the typical 35" tire size, with 24" of ground clearance. I chose to stick with 29" tires, and 18" ground clearance. The trailer is taller than a Horizon, but the frame is also 6" lower. That's why the CG isn't too high. Further, my water tank is tucked into the frame, not standing up on the tongue, and various other things like that that keep the weight down. It's also important to note that my track width is 6" wider.
The intent of the trailer is not to load it full of gear. It is designed to be a combination of a "teardrop" style living quarters, combined with an RTT and additional storage. My wife and I will sleep in the RTT, the kids will sleep in the body of the trailer. There's a huge space that will be their room, and contain nothing more than clothing and toys. The other side will have a permanently configured kitchen for quick setup, like on the back of a teardrop. Again, this takes up a lot of space, but not as much weight as one would think based on the size.
How do you find torsion axles destructive? I have found them to ride much smoother than any leaf spring. In hindsight, I probably should have done leafs because they are rugged and reliable. But I'll give these shot. I have an idea to fix the reliability problem they have.
How does the hitch configuration "encourage" high tongue weight? The tongue weight has a large leverage on the rear axle, true. But I do not plan to have a lot of tonque weight. My experience shows me that you don't need tons of tongue weight with a relatively light trailer. A tongue weight of 200lbs won't be a big problem. Yes, it subtracts from the cargo weight of the truck, but as I said earlier, I don't intend to carry much in the truck.
I completely understand the issues of weight and pulling the trailer around off-road. I've already mentioned the scale of this trailer and D2 compared to a Horizon and TJ. But, I should also point out that I do not intend to be doing any radical trails with it. It's more of a "basecamp" setup. The trailer was a huge compromise because it needed to fill so many roles. Off-road camping, support for Enduro events (carrying motorcycles), as well as a nice family camping platform that will also get used in campgrounds. The goal was quick deployment of camp, lots of warm and dry space for a family of 4, the ability to carry a dirtbike on the tongue, space for other bulky and light items like a portable toilet, etc.
I appreciate your questions, and hope my response is not interpreted to be defensive. I'm just responding to questions and comments I've seen in various places. A lot of thought went into this design. It's different, and it is larger than what's been done before. My truck is not a radical build, and likewise I don't intend to drag this trailer though radical trails. I just want something that can withstand rough roads, and go on somethign like a class 2 trail. Then setup camp, and tackle the 3+ trails with an empty truck. If I do want to go camping at the end of a class 3 trail, then I'll simply leave the trailer home, and use the lightweight gear I already have.
I'll just attach another picture from a different angle so the scale of it can be better sensed. It looks pretty wide back there, but the track width is the same as the truck.
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indiedog
Adventurer
R_Lefebrvre said:
Anything, and I mean anything, that is intended to do more than one function will ALWAYS be a compromise. If it ends up looking like the ugliest most ungainly thing on the planet yet it makes you happy and does what you want it to do, then it will be an unquestionable success! I hope it does exactly that for you, without being ugly that is!
And I applaud your pioneering spirit!expeditionswest said:
I've read similar statements a few times. When you say "distance from the ball to the trailer tires" are you measuring on an angle from the hitch to the trailer wheel hub or in a straight line from the hitch point to the centre of the trailer axle?
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Took the day off work yesterday to get some work done on the trailer. I ground most of the welds smooth on the exterior to get ready for paint, and started work on the inside. I'm hanging some Angle bar to which the plywood of the interior will fasten to. After this step, I'll just have to finish 3 more doors, then paint.
You can maybe get a better sense now of how this will work inside. 18" deep on the kitchen side, and 50" deep on the kid's sleeping area. You can also see the small residual storage area under the living areas, as well as see my finished fenders.
You can maybe get a better sense now of how this will work inside. 18" deep on the kitchen side, and 50" deep on the kid's sleeping area. You can also see the small residual storage area under the living areas, as well as see my finished fenders.
Attachments
RgrBox
Adventurer
Wow.. this is much cooler then the BBQ pit my brother built.. it's longer then you Disco, but he leases it out to churches etc.. to use. It paid for itself the first year.. anyway, great looking trailer. Question, I can only imagine your children are small, or is the sleeping area for your kids longer then I can imagine. And once they have out grown this area what do you plan to put in it's place..
Again great work..
RB
Again great work..
RB
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Yes, my first son is 3, and the second isn't born yet, so I figure I'll get at least 5 if not 10 years out of this configuration (it's about 5' square). Once we're past that stage it will be a simple matter to extend the bed space by modifying the fold-down door into something like a hybrid trailer.
I still haven't decided which way to go at this point. I can have the door fold up to horizontal, and it becomes a "porch" for our RTT. I'm just not sure how realistic this is, too flimsy?
Or just have it flip down out of the way for now?
Then, should the wall that becomes exposed for the kid's space, I could go fabric, plywood? I like the idea of plywood, give something solid between them and any animals. I don't want to spend a fortune on RV windows at this point either. Could do something with a nice acrylic, but it has to open for ventilation. So that complicates it.
Alternatively, I could bin the whole folding door thing for now, and just build a window and hatch right into the side steel panel.
I'm trying to achieve maximum utility of the space for storage during transit, so I'd like the entire side to be able to open up wide if possible. While also providing a secure space for the kids while they're young. While also providing easy reconfiguration for when it's time to switch to the extendible sleeping area.
Just thinking of it now, I think I may have come to the solution. The door will be built as a fold down. But, I'll also build a window and side opening hatch into the panel. The panel will be up and closed when the kids are sleeping, and they use the side opening hatch to get in and out. I'll be able to drop it down completely, to load things into the space for transit.
The reason I want to use the space is for large items like the RTT ladder and hatch ladder, as well as an Eazi-Up awning with mosquito netting which will be erected on the kitchen side as a living space.
When it's time to extend the space, just unbolt this panel and throw it away, And bolt on a new solid panel which will support the extended bed.
I still haven't decided which way to go at this point. I can have the door fold up to horizontal, and it becomes a "porch" for our RTT. I'm just not sure how realistic this is, too flimsy?
Or just have it flip down out of the way for now?
Then, should the wall that becomes exposed for the kid's space, I could go fabric, plywood? I like the idea of plywood, give something solid between them and any animals. I don't want to spend a fortune on RV windows at this point either. Could do something with a nice acrylic, but it has to open for ventilation. So that complicates it.
Alternatively, I could bin the whole folding door thing for now, and just build a window and hatch right into the side steel panel.
I'm trying to achieve maximum utility of the space for storage during transit, so I'd like the entire side to be able to open up wide if possible. While also providing a secure space for the kids while they're young. While also providing easy reconfiguration for when it's time to switch to the extendible sleeping area.
Just thinking of it now, I think I may have come to the solution. The door will be built as a fold down. But, I'll also build a window and side opening hatch into the panel. The panel will be up and closed when the kids are sleeping, and they use the side opening hatch to get in and out. I'll be able to drop it down completely, to load things into the space for transit.
The reason I want to use the space is for large items like the RTT ladder and hatch ladder, as well as an Eazi-Up awning with mosquito netting which will be erected on the kitchen side as a living space.
When it's time to extend the space, just unbolt this panel and throw it away, And bolt on a new solid panel which will support the extended bed.
highlandercj-7
Explorer
That beast can double as a bomb shelter too lol. Nice work. I can't wait to see it with some color on it.