New Defender News

[nickw]

It means what I said, which again was "The obvious refute to this is the existence of the INEOS project". Where did I say they were destined to be a runaway success and put LR out of business? I didn't. They're attempting to build a modern Defender, because JLR's attempt is the disappointing vision of a dandy who dislikes off-roading. Will they be successful? Who knows. I'm just glad they flipped LR the bird with their trademark case.

I've said it before, the new fashion Defender will be a good option for overlanders if it is reliable and ships with 18s. However, it's still a joke in the context of being of a Defender successor. Go check out the actual Defender forums, they hate it, but they don't hate everything as so many Namibia vacationers and YouTube talking-heads would have you believe. When the new Bronco comes up in discussion, it's basically a "Hmm. Not bad. Why is LR so dumb?", not a "This is going to suck too!" It is not a community of unilateral dismissal of all modern products, but one of judgement based on common values.

Arkonik? Here we go again with the two dimensional thought.

Anyways, we don't need another "The new Pretender sucks" thread. There's plenty. This was just a response to that dumb video reviewer who can't see beyond two visions and complains that it's uncomfortable on the road.

I've said it before the exact same BS was discussed ad nauseam on the Cruiser' forums and by cruiser heads regarding the 80's, 100's and 200's, it's juvenile at best and simply ignorant at worst. Going from the 80 with it's traditional straight 6, solid axles, full float rear end, front and rear lockers to the 100 with it's V8, IFS and SF rear axle is not that far removed from what we are seeing here. Besides your personal beliefs, what makes you think Defender won't follow the same path?

I'd pick a new Defender 100 times out of 100 vs the Grenadier for an expedition. Ineos can put whatever engineering and thought into that product but without local dealer support and years of reliability and performance metrics, I don't see how it's viable outside of a small niche group which are what, farmers and ranchers...who won't know ****** to do with a BMW engine if it fails to start.

The Grenadier is 100% aimed at the "lifestyle" crowd, regardless of their marketing, it's who's going to buy it.

 

[nickw]

Yup, agreed, any of the BMW's that went through our household always had higher repair bills than the Rovers. The vehicle that surprised me the most though was my wife's Mercedes 240. I did over her period of ownership have to replace all the coil springs at different times, she didn't quite grasp the concept that it couldn't be driven like her previous RRC, but except for that and some small items, it was pretty much just oil changes. I do miss the 1986 euro spec 320i, 5 speed we had for a while. That was one fun car to drive.

Those ol' 240's can take a beating.

Morocco To End Using the Mercedes 240 Diesel in “Grand Taxis”

Meknes - The Moroccan government has recently formalized a “cash-for-clunkers” program that it hopes

www.moroccoworldnews.com

 

[mpinco]

Might be an interesting Fall if the Defender, Bronco and Granadier are brought to market around the same time.

 

[naks]

2020 Defender takes on the wilds of Africa - Video Review

We head to Namibia’s wild west coast to drive the new Defender.

www.whichcar.com.au

Drive impressions
Our first taste of the new Land Rover came in Namibia driving a D240 variant looking very traditional in its Pangaea Green paint with white roof and white steel wheels. The overall look of the new vehicle is sure to be polarising, as it takes no prisoners with a design that is modern while incorporating hues of the classic Land Rovers of the past.

The vehicles on this trip were fitted with the Expedition package which includes a raised air-intake snorkel, expedition roof rack, a ladder to access the roof on the passenger’s side, and a storage box on the driver’s side. They were also fitted with Goodyear Duratrac all-terrain tyres to conquer sharp, rocky tracks in confidence.

The D240 is powered by the 2.0-litre Ingenium diesel engine that makes a sprightly 177kW and 430Nm, making light work of the steep African terrain and sandy tracks. The diesel engine is stunningly quiet both at idle and under load and you’d be hard-pressed to pick it as a diesel from within the cabin.

The eight-speed automatic transmission is perfectly matched to the modern powerplant, giving smooth and refined shifting. The engine is relatively small but the power and torque figures are on the money; though it will be interesting to drive this combination with a heavier load on board than what we had here. ...

The low-range/low-gear engine braking is good, but, even so, the descent still required the driver to hover a foot over the brake to control speed. We found the sensitivity of the brake-by-wire system to be odd, providing little to no retardation at minimum brake input and then jolting the vehicle to a stop if squeezed a tad more.

We brought this up with chief engineer, Steven Frick, citing it as a problem, and he said we weren’t the first to note it and it is something the company will look at on the production vehicles. All of these cars were pre-production models and calibration of the brake-by-wire system should be easy to refine to get the right feel and performance. It’s something we’ll certainly look for when we get to drive production vehicles back here in Australia later this year. ...

We also got to drive the P400 110, and what a pleasure that was. This is powered by Land Rover’s new 3.0-litre inline six-cylinder, turbocharged petrol engine, which is also boosted by an electric supercharger feeding from the 48-volt electrical system. The theory is that the electric supercharger provides the boost at low revs before the turbocharger wakes up as the revs climb.

It works too, with 294kW on tap and 550Nm from as low as 2000rpm. That torque feels almost diesel-like in its delivery, making the P400 a pleasure to drive both at low speed over off-road terrain and quicker over fast-flowing roads.

We didn’t get actual fuel figures on this drive, but at fill-up time the diesel D240s were taking almost half as much fuel as the petrol P400s, and that’s driving over the same 680km route, of which only 4km were on sealed roads.

It was on these flowing open roads that the true ‘breadth of ability’ of the new Defender revealed itself. Never before has a Defender felt so composed at speed – it is a real confidence-inspiring high-speed tourer. The steering is perfectly weighted and the communication of the suspension through to the driver is superb for such a large vehicle. The L663 feels right at home on high-speed sand and gravel roads, which is something you would never have said about a Defender in the past.

It’s this new-found performance and on-road manners that make this new Land Rover such a revelation which, depending on sale price, should be hugely popular in a big country like Australia. ...

 

[Paddler Ed]

Review on UK roads from Autocar:

Land Rover Defender 110 D240 S 2020 UK first drive | Autocar

Modestly optioned but massively capable diesel is the sweet spot of the range

www.autocar.co.uk

Interesting concluding comments:
"Should I buy one?
This new Defender steps off where the last one bade us farewell: as a premium vehicle ripe for individualisation, rather than where the Land Rover story started, as a basic utility and agricultural vehicle.
What’s unchanged is how capable it is away from roads. Where it differs is just what a fine, refined and comfortable car it now is on them."

 

[nickw]

Review on UK roads from Autocar:

Land Rover Defender 110 D240 S 2020 UK first drive | Autocar

Modestly optioned but massively capable diesel is the sweet spot of the range

www.autocar.co.uk

Interesting concluding comments:
"Should I buy one?
This new Defender steps off where the last one bade us farewell: as a premium vehicle ripe for individualisation, rather than where the Land Rover story started, as a basic utility and agricultural vehicle.
What’s unchanged is how capable it is away from roads. Where it differs is just what a fine, refined and comfortable car it now is on them."

Well said..."this new Defender steps off where the last one bade us farewell"....

 

[Christian P.]

I moved a few posts to the appropriate thread as there was really nothing of 'news' in these postings.

Please keep beating the dead horse here:

New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

I think the New Defender is the best 4x4 ever made on the face of the earth, and will forever be better than any other 4x4 at everything. It can literally do anything and go anywhere. Discuss.

www.expeditionportal.com

 

[naks]

Defender heroes: the people behind Land Rover's definitive 4x4: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/defender-heroes-people-behind-land-rovers-definitive-4x4

"...
Rob Atkins - chief engineer, vehicle engineering

“I was involved with the Defender programme from the early stages,” says Atkins. “My job was to pull the architecture, which is to say the main components of the vehicle, all together. My team and I work on all of our SUV models: the Defender was just one of them, though of course it’s a very important one. Basically, I just know lots of people across the business and my job is to suck their expertise out of them – whatever the project needs.”

Atkins says one important reason for the Defender’s success is that it isn’t a caricature of the original car, or of the outgoing model, but it has been created from a genuine attempt to make a vehicle for today, and looking several decades forward, that is modern in every key aspect but carries the same iconic values as the 1948 original.

“There was no way the new Defender could ever be a rebadged version of one of our other SUVs,” he says. “Nick Rogers was really good at holding us to account over that. He was adamant that it had to be authentic. In any case, [design chief] Gerry McGovern and his design team had come up with a great concept for a modern machine, and we knew we needed to do justice to that.”

Many of the biggest Defender decisions aren’t obvious, says Atkins, such as the use of a monocoque structure instead of a traditional body-on-frame set-up, and the very advanced electronic architecture. He and his team were heavily involved in all of that. But he’s proud of two particular decisions: the use of bigger tyres to raise the Defender’s driving position and improve its off-road traction; and some special packaging measures needed to make the Defender’s boot space as wide and uncluttered as it is, in comparison with more conventional SUVs.

The decision about the big wheels came early, says Atkins: “Even before we had a fully engineered mule, we did some testing after we fitted bigger tyres to a Range Rover Sport and it was very promising. Then we went to Dubai, where sand driving is the national sport, and were simply blown away by the performance of our Defender mule, even when we were using road tyre pressures. We knew the design was strong, but big wheels gave the vehicle extra height and presence, and a lot more grip. That was a very important moment.”


Mike Cross - chief engineer, vehicle integrity

Mike Cross isn’t a big talker. He prefers to demonstrate what he does – which is to bring “Land Roverness” to every model, then signing it off when he’s sure it has arrived – by getting you to drive the product, or deploying his own legendary driving skills. Which is why we were circulating the Gaydon test track at 90mph-plus as he explained his role with the Defender.

“I wanted it to drive the way it looks,” he says, “to feel a bit… mechanical. It needed to be fun to drive, with the right kind of precision and so on, but in an idiosyncratic sort of way. This wasn’t a sports car.”

That’s why the Defender has more body roll than many of the cars Cross has been involved with: an off-roader is expected to be pretty compliant over bumps. He looks pleased when I take the wheel for a bit and observe that the car feels pleasantly supple over bumps large and small, but despite its softish, all-independent air suspension, there’s absolutely no body float, even at high speed. (We touch 120mph.) The steering is pleasant and accurate, too. Not sporty, just capable. “It’s supposed to feel very connected to the road,” he says.

Cross and his team were involved at the two critical times for Defender: at the most formative stage, and in the last 15 months, when mules were being assessed. “In the first instance, my team works with the engineers to produce a statement of intent for the car and we guide the car’s development, from a dynamic point of view, as it progresses,” he says. “Then when mules become available, we start driving them. Our job is to make certain the car meets the values that we laid down and that buyers will expect from a Land Rover. That means noise, vibration, harshness [assessment] as well as steering quality and effort, brake feel, ride and handling.”

On a high-speed departure from the test track, we attack a couple of evil-looking concrete jumps, one after the other, at 90mph. The car gets airborne each time but tracks dead straight when it lands and feels like it’s alighting on a huge, firm cushion. There’s no sign of bottoming and Cross allows himself a faint smile. “I think this is one of the best vehicles we’ve done,” he says."

 

[naks]

New Land Rover Defender P400 2020 review: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/352281/new-land-rover-defender-p400-2020-review

"Verdict

Petrol or diesel? Difficult decision. On this short experience of the new P400 with its mild-hybrid tech, it ups the fun level even further – and the diesel is already very enjoyable. Most people will be tempted by the extra economy and lower prices of the diesel models, especially given the huge cost of the P400 Defender X. They’d be making the right decision, although this car shows the promise that an even hotter Defender might just offer in the future. ...

Our first drive of the long-awaited new Land Rover Defender didn’t disappoint – it resulted in a full five- star rating. What surprised us most was how much fun the car was to drive – and that was the diesel-engined model. So how does the Defender do with petrol power under its square bonnet?

Until Jaguar Land Rover’s Special Vehicle Operations division gets their hands on the Defender, this P400 model is as fast as the new car will get. It’s also as electrified as the Defender gets, too, at least until plug-in hybrid versions eventually arrive. This all-new six-cylinder petrol engine gets mild-hybrid tech to boost response, power and efficiency – slightly.

With a 3.0-litre twin-scroll turbo, plus a 48-volt electric supercharger with a belt-integrated starter motor in place of the alternator, power tops out at 395bhp with a tasty 550Nm of torque. That equates to a 0-60mph time of 6.1 seconds.

The on-board 48-volt lithium-ion battery feeds the whole electrical system and gets topped up as the car slows down, while also helping to reduce fuel consumption; the P400’s best claimed average of 25.2mpg isn’t too far off the diesel’s 31.7mpg.

It’s more fun to drive, too. The throttle response is noticeably sharper – helped by the mild-hybrid system – which makes the Land Rover feel even more lively, while acceleration is accompanied by a tuneful note from the six-cylinder engine.

There are no gearchange paddles behind the steering wheel – a deliberate decision by the engineering team that didn’t feel it was in keeping with the Defender spirit. However, the stubby gearlever can be used to manually shift through the ZF auto box’s eight ratios. Left to its own devices, changes are barely noticeable save for the slight shift in tone of the engine note.

The tighter responses of the petrol engine make the Defender feel even more alert on the road. The monocoque body is incredibly stiff, enabling engineers to tune the car-like double-wishbone front and integral link rear suspension for a rare combination – for such a 4x4 – of off and on-road ability.

Air suspension is standard, as are Adaptive Dynamics, which combine to not only raise the car for extreme off-roading and lower it for easier access, but also react super-swiftly when driving on tarmac.

That means that this near two-metre-tall SUV handles more like a car than a 4x4; it stays largely flat and unflustered when cornering. The ride is pretty much unchanged from the diesel version – communicative rather than uncomfortable – while levels of grip are impressively high. The steering is surprisingly reactive; again, unusual for a 4x4.

The only other downside to the P400 model is that, currently at least, it’s only available as a top-spec Defender X, although the car in our pictures is in SE trim. It has pretty much every option box ticked and all for a sizeable £79,655. That’s nearly £35,000 more than the Defender 110’s starting price and only a few thousand less than the cheapest Range Rover."

 

[DieselRanger]

Land Rover released a Defender Augmented Reality app...you can see what it looks like in your driveway! Worth a few minutes of amusement.

 

[Christian P.]

Not sure if this video has been posted. Very well done.

 

[krick3tt]

I have a 2007 LR3 and with all the hype over this new vehicle I must I was a bit put off. After seeing this video and watching that man play with it in a far away place, if I could afford it I would want/get one. I even have to say that I have to rethink my view of the storage and ladder to the roof rack, they seem to be well thought out although the storage box I still think is a bit too much glitz.

 

[Victory_Overland]

I have a 2007 LR3 and with all the hype over this new vehicle I must I was a bit put off. After seeing this video and watching that man play with it in a far away place, if I could afford it I would want/get one. I even have to say that I have to rethink my view of the storage and ladder to the roof rack, they seem to be well thought out although the storage box I still think is a bit too much glitz.

Great points and how I feel; the cost is still eating at me but I look at modifications and OEM bolt on kit and feel there can be some significant cost savings for other parts that will fit now with minor modification and/or will fit when aftermarket suppliers catch up with JLR deliveries.

For instance, if JLR can bolt the side rails on it anyone can because the structure will hold it; how nice would it be to have the mount but lightweight quick release Pelicans or Zarges or whatever your flavor is. FR, Gobi, Rhino rack should fit, no need for the tire cover because a smart person will most likely put a tire carrier bag of sorts on it.

Get the OEM bells and whistles you want as the bones and heart of the vehicle and go forward with aftermarket that will surely come out; this is how I am starting to look at a potential purchase. The 4cyl and 6cyl argument is really what is killing me at this point.

 

[Carson G]

Great points and how I feel; the cost is still eating at me but I look at modifications and OEM bolt on kit and feel there can be some significant cost savings for other parts that will fit now with minor modification and/or will fit when aftermarket suppliers catch up with JLR deliveries.

For instance, if JLR can bolt the side rails on it anyone can because the structure will hold it; how nice would it be to have the mount but lightweight quick release Pelicans or Zarges or whatever your flavor is. FR, Gobi, Rhino rack should fit, no need for the tire cover because a smart person will most likely put a tire carrier bag of sorts on it.

Get the OEM bells and whistles you want as the bones and heart of the vehicle and go forward with aftermarket that will surely come out; this is how I am starting to look at a potential purchase. The 4cyl and 6cyl argument is really what is killing me at this point.

I’m kinda waiting to see what happens with a V8 version I’ve seen some mules with the supercharged Jag 5.0. If they build one that will be the the one to get IMO.

 

[nickw]

I’m kinda waiting to see what happens with a V8 version I’ve seen some mules with the supercharged Jag 5.0. If they build one that will be the the one to get IMO.

That's gotta add a few $k to the price? Do we know how much more the supercharged RR's are vs the N/A ones?