New Defender News

[mpinco]

As for after-market support I'm expecting / not surprised that 3rd party vendors are taking a wait and see approach. The latest high-tech vehicles with on-board radar and collision avoidance technology will be significant roadblocks / development hurdles for anyone wanting to offer accessories. Some friends are dealing with inadvertent collision avoidance "glitches" on a brand new vehicle. Sitting at the dealer as they are trying to figure out why the vehicle is freaking out at 70mph on the highway. Scary outcome.

Personally that stuff needs to be defeatured if you want to outfit a vehicle for multi purposes.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

As for after-market support I'm expecting / not surprised that 3rd party vendors are taking a wait and see approach. The latest high-tech vehicles with on-board radar and collision avoidance technology will be significant roadblocks / development hurdles for anyone wanting to offer accessories. Some friends are dealing with inadvertent collision avoidance "glitches" on a brand new vehicle. Sitting at the dealer as they are trying to figure out why the vehicle is freaking out at 70mph on the highway. Scary outcome.

Personally that stuff needs to be defeatured if you want to outfit a vehicle for multi purposes.

And related - all of this aftermarket stuff has to pass a cost/benefit analysis, and that's hard to do effectively this year. How many Defenders have been sold? How many WILL be sold in a "normal" year? Of those, how many will buy an ARB (or whatever) bull-bar? Are the kinds of people who buy bull bars also buying the Defender en-mass, or are most Defenders being sold to city folks who will never use their off-road chops? It is hard to know at this stage. These metrics are important because before pouring hundreds of thousands into R&D and product design, the juice has to be worth the squeeze for these aftermarket companies. Boutique suppliers -- like Lucky8, who focus entirely on JLR -- are the exception, and they don't even have many accessories out yet.

 

[roving1]

As for after-market support I'm expecting / not surprised that 3rd party vendors are taking a wait and see approach. The latest high-tech vehicles with on-board radar and collision avoidance technology will be significant roadblocks / development hurdles for anyone wanting to offer accessories. Some friends are dealing with inadvertent collision avoidance "glitches" on a brand new vehicle. Sitting at the dealer as they are trying to figure out why the vehicle is freaking out at 70mph on the highway. Scary outcome.

Personally that stuff needs to be defeatured if you want to outfit a vehicle for multi purposes.

A someone who has driven tons of PPV and early production test vehicles there really is nothing quite like the fright and damage to one's trust in the vehicle that a false emergency braking event can leave you with. Motoring down an empty freeway and doing an uninitiated panic stop down to zero or low speed and after barely comprehending what has happened matting the gas begging the car to get up to speed, or at least drive itself onto the shoulder, so you don't get run over by traffic behind you. It really really sucks.

Not a JLR dig. ALL these systems have bugs and imperfections even on final production versions. No way In hell will I buy a car with EBS. Already had my adrenal glands wringed dry by these things enough thanks.

I also have no idea what is going to stop criminals from throwing a box in front of a car, and after your car dutifully stops, then carjacking you lol, but I guess that is another thing entirely.

 

[mpinco]

Not intending to take this conversation in another direction but ................ FCEV, Ineos (see Inovyn) and "overlanding" (long distance) ..............

https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/gck...ing-announce-the-gck-e-blast-1-dakar-vehicle/

 

[T-Willy]

Mathematically though, they are having a rare occurrence and JLR is taking care of it. I don’t think people should make it more complicated than that.

This. One occurrence is getting blown way out of proportion by those who, let's face it, are looking for reasons for LR to fail with the Defender.

Raising it does not constitute blowing it out of proportion. It's one example--a very public and embarrassing one because it is consistent with JLR's reputation for poor quality, reliability, and service. Still, it's the first year of a new model; problems will happen, and it's inarguable that they're doing the work to remedy the situation. It will take years to ascertain any sort of statistical sense of Defender's actual quality and reliability. This is why many of us have chosen a "wait and see" approach. JLR does not, however, enjoy the benefit of the doubt that would other manufacturers--which is perfectly fair.

 

[JackW]

Hydrogen fuel does have promise but you have to remember that is the most reactive element in the periodic table. It will readily combine with almost anything - rapidly and sometimes violently. You have to very careful in the selection of materials it comes in contact with - hydrogen embrittlement is a very real problem.

There was a big push for hydrogen fuel back in the seventies but the logistics of creating a supply system was way beyond our capabilities then.

 

[2025 deleted member]

He may have good insight but he’s still a dork.

Every video I watch of his, he seems to take himself waay to seriously.

 

[2025 deleted member]

This. One occurrence is getting blown way out of proportion by those who, let's face it, are looking for reasons for LR to fail with the Defender.

I'd like them to succeed, but they can't seem to get out of their own way. TFL has a lot of respect in the 3/4 and 1 ton truck market for their reviews so I pay attention to what they have to say. I know a lot of people don't like them, but they have by far the most comprehensive truck reviews, and the Ike gauntlet is the gold standard in truck testing.

 

[T-Willy]

Every video I watch of his, he seems to take himself waay to seriously.

He is quite fussy, but, as a result, his analyses are typically excellent too.

 

[DieselRanger]

I don't wish to derail this thread, but yesterday's news about Ineos pursuing a Hydrogen powerplant gave me hope to see them in North America. If they offer three powertrains (gas, diesel, and hydrogen), the odds of us seeing one in North America are better as that will give them some more wiggle room around clean air standards. Fingers and Toes are crossed, anyway!

And where, pray tell, are you going to fill up on hydrogen?

 

[DieselRanger]

I'd like them to succeed, but they can't seem to get out of their own way. TFL has a lot of respect in the 3/4 and 1 ton truck market for their reviews so I pay attention to what they have to say. I know a lot of people don't like them, but they have by far the most comprehensive truck reviews, and the Ike gauntlet is the gold standard in truck testing.

Still one vehicle out of tens of thousands already sold. Go get on the New Defender owner forums, and you won't see this as a common problem.

 

[DieselRanger]

As for after-market support I'm expecting / not surprised that 3rd party vendors are taking a wait and see approach. The latest high-tech vehicles with on-board radar and collision avoidance technology will be significant roadblocks / development hurdles for anyone wanting to offer accessories. Some friends are dealing with inadvertent collision avoidance "glitches" on a brand new vehicle. Sitting at the dealer as they are trying to figure out why the vehicle is freaking out at 70mph on the highway. Scary outcome.

Personally that stuff needs to be defeatured if you want to outfit a vehicle for multi purposes.

Lucky8 us taking a wait and see approach? Go follow @newdefendermods and you'll see the aftermarket has jumped out way ahead of where they even are with the Discovery 5.

 

[DieselRanger]

Raising it does not constitute blowing it out of proportion. It's one example--a very public and embarrassing one because it is consistent with JLR's reputation for poor quality, reliability, and service. Still, it's the first year of a new model; problems will happen, and it's inarguable that they're doing the work to remedy the situation. It will take years to ascertain any sort of statistical sense of Defender's actual quality and reliability. This is why many of us have chosen a "wait and see" approach. JLR does not, however, enjoy the benefit of the doubt that would other manufacturers--which is perfectly fair.

What is happening is that people are pointing to one vehicle and one owner experience and saying "this is bad for Land Rover" and "This is why I'll never buy a Land Rover" and "consumers will avoid Land Rover because of this..." and so on. Those who would say that likely were not going to be Land Rover customers to begin with.

But critical thinking on the issue, and a little bit of research would reveal that one video blog / YouTube channel bought one vehicle that had a bad engine, and that this issue is not a common problem that is being reported by owners. They got a second which the dealer screwed up on an aftermarket part install, which is a reflection on the dealer, not the manufacturer or the vehicle. As others have said, JLR is working to make it right.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

And where, pray tell, are you going to fill up on hydrogen?

I am not. Petrol or diesel please! My point was the availability of a hydrogen option will make it more likely to be able to get them in NA generally — in the same way the Jeep Compass allows the Hemi wrangler to be a thing by offsetting the overall emissions. So hopefully they sell a ton of hydrogen ones in LA so that I can get my diesel option up here in Canada

(I was under the impression that much of this regulation is based on total emissions across a line of vehicles, which is what I was talking about — by creating a more “eco friendly” option perhaps it will mean the petrol/diesel will be more likely to gain approval — but I don’t know the details of the regs so this is all speculation on my part)

In terms of hydrogen as a fuel source it has similar problem as electric - the infrastructure just isn’t there yet. But stuff changes fast — there seems to be a bit of an arms race between the various hybrid options out there, full electrics, and hydrogen vehicles to replace traditional Gas/diesel options. While electrics have an early lead right now, Ineos as a group of companies has a vested interest in the success of hydrogen (they are one of the largest producers of hydrogen in Europe I’m told, and most of that right now is a wasted byproduct of their other work).

Time will tell with Ineos as much as it will with the new Defender. Both platforms will have unique compromises and both are unproven (and will remain so for a few years yet). Still fun to kill time by chatting about them though!!

 

[mpinco]

And where, pray tell, are you going to fill up on hydrogen?

Today? Only at start-ups. By 2024/5? Well likely several locations.

California Air Resources Board Finalizes Draft Report on Study of Light-Duty Hydrogen Fueling Station Economics - Fuelcellsworks

The California Air Resources Board has finalized a draft report detailing a study of light-duty hydrogen fueling station economics. This effort has been complet...

fuelcellsworks.com

ICE power trains ending by 2030? BEV energy density insufficient.