New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[EricTyrrell]

The Bronco will be sold in a handful of markets, so was much easier to slap a boxy frontend on.

But yet again, all of you "Gerry puts form over function" people are constantly whining that you don't like the form of the new Defender, even though that form helps serve some very real functional requirements. So is function only important when it's the function you personally care about, or is there a chance that engineers know more about how to build a car for their target markets than a handful of armchair experts vomiting their opinions onto some forums?

Amazing how some convince themselves of this in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

[EricTyrrell]

[Goofy photos]

 

[Blaise]

is there a chance that engineers know more about how to build a car for their target markets than a handful of armchair experts vomiting their opinions onto some forums?

Nah man, forums know better.

Something I realized thinking about this last night is that a lot of people specifically dislike the Defender and other EAS/modern rovers because they are a turn-key solution. These people want a 'lifestyle' of modifying their cars, whether good or bad, they want to put their mark on it. That isn't a bad thing, having a car hobby is fun. However, its not for everyone (I already spend 50+hrs a week doing actual R&D work), so turn-key doesn't bother me. Ford knows this, as does Jeep, so they're catering to the aftermarket. It's big money.

I will still never understand why people are so worked up over what direction a company takes on product they aren't vested in. Just don't buy the car, man....

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Nah man, forums know better.

Something I realized thinking about this last night is that a lot of people specifically dislike the Defender and other EAS/modern rovers because they are a turn-key solution. These people want a 'lifestyle' of modifying their cars, whether good or bad, they want to put their mark on it. That isn't a bad thing, having a car hobby is fun. However, its not for everyone (I already spend 50+hrs a week doing actual R&D work), so turn-key doesn't bother me. Ford knows this, as does Jeep, so they're catering to the aftermarket. It's big money.

I will still never understand why people are so worked up over what direction a company takes on product they aren't vested in. Just don't buy the car, man....

Depending on what you are doing other offerings very well may be more "turn key" than a new Rover. Not everybody dreams of limited selection rubber band tires and air suspensions for their long distance offroad touring car.

I think people get worked up over the newer Land Rovers because they have drastically switched target markets.

 

[T-Willy]

I will still never understand why people are so worked up over what direction a company takes on product they aren't vested in. Just don't buy the car, man....

In most cases I'd agree with this. But in this case, I think that (1) the dearth of off-road and payload-capable touring wagons available in the U.S. market, and (2) Defender's design heritage placed a lot of hope and expectation on new Defender. Of course, hope and expectation is always fertile ground for discontent.

 

[calicamper]

after reading through this thread...haters gonna hate hahaha

I have a YJ on Rough Country, Powerwagon on 3.0 Kings, had a 12JKU sahara on 35s and 16JKU Rubi on 37s.
Everyone wants to talk about reliability but its a numbers game. There are trail fixes for the air bags for die hards. Its overpriced, but worth it. So were some of the other low quantity vehicles i had.

Just picked up the defender. Has better road manners comparatively in its class then my S6, Hellcat, BMW x5 50i and 335i did. The airbags are just right. For an OVERLAND vehicle, they have the payload and carrying capacity necessary, and the road manner and articulation extremes necessary. So why Not?
Taking things slow will be necessary. I can Mob anything in the powerwagon, but i know thats not what this Defender is for.
My wife is 30 weeks pregnant and this is her mom mobile. ITS PERFECT.( i expect a dealer visit or two)(pretty sure every LR buyer does at this point)
We will put on 32/33s with adjustable lift links to give it just a tad more height on average.
Roof rack, side storage, step bars were overpriced dealer add-ons but wanted them anyways.

if you want it, buy it.
if you dont, continue hating.

Bronco and wrangler payloads and towing are laughable.

maybe ill trade the powerwagon if either gets REAL AXLES and v8s(boosted) Right now, the TRX would be my only option.

The defender was done right no matter what anyone says. Pretty sure the 90 can be had with coils for die hards, but the air bags allow the ride height adjustments.
Cant make everyone happy.
View attachment 598691View attachment 598692View attachment 598693View attachment 598694View attachment 598695

What sort of 4x4 terrain does one have in Florida?

 

[Carson G]

Depending on what you are doing other offerings very well may be more "turn key" than a new Rover. Not everybody dreams of limited selection rubber band tires and air suspensions for their long distance offroad touring car.

I think people get worked up over the newer Land Rovers because they have drastically switched target markets.

How is a 32.1” Duratrac on a 18” wheel a rubber band tire?

 

[Buliwyf]

What sort of 4x4 terrain does one have in Florida?

Croom.

Ocala National forest. Any 4x4 is fine there. But fullsize's are best. More camper.

And sand, lots and lots of sand. P'enty of beach camping and unimproved woods campgrounds.

 

[Buliwyf]

 

[Blaise]

Depending on what you are doing other offerings very well may be more "turn key" than a new Rover. Not everybody dreams of limited selection rubber band tires and air suspensions for their long distance offroad touring car.

Not everybody. Some do. If you don't like it, buy another car? I love doing long distance off roading with air suspension. I get waved by a lot by wranglers and such going half the speed.

"Rubber band tires" a 60-70 series tire?

Not everybody dreams of awful ride quality, noise, and limited space/cargo either, but each to their own. You don't see me trashing wrangler owners online (or in person for that matter).

 

[Blaise]

I’m in North America and regularly do trips that are a week in low range with three days of driving to anybody. You need to get out more.

That said 1300 pounds payload is fine.

Three days of driving to anyone? Where?

 

[Buliwyf]

Yes, let's talk payload.

Let's ballpark (from my set-up) the math for ten days of self-supported remote camps in the border country, or the Pinacate, in winter.

Three or four people: 600 lbs
Water: One gallon plus ten percent per-person per-day for three people -- and five emergency gallons: 315 lbs
Other drinks: 25 lbs
Campteq pop top with mattress: 150 lbs
Cooler, food, ice: 200 lbs
Repair box (fluids, tools): 25 lbs
Kitchen: 25 lbs
Other personal gear: 150 lbs
25 gallons aux gas: 150 lbs

Total: ~1700

That's ~300 and ~600 lbs over Bronco or Wrangler's payloads, respectively. But it's more than ~200 lbs under the payload of new Defender, my old 80 Series, or Grenadier, which is aiming north of 2000 lbs. Add people, days, or toys, and that number grows.

A good way to destroy a new truck is on rough roads while exceeding payload. Ideally, for sake of vehicle preservation, one stays below that payload, and especially on rough roads.

This is what distinguishes a touring wagon from an otherwise capable four-wheel drive: Capability under load.

I know this isn't how everyone travels or uses their wagons (be that for work or play) but for some of us it is, and so payload does matter.

Two people. 300#
Water, 4000ml. 4
MSR Waterworks. 1
Cooler w/ice. 50
spare parts. 50
stove, pot, spork. 0.1
denatured alcohol 1

personal gear, 2 tents, 2 pads, 2 bags, 2 packs, food, snacks, spork, 1st aid, clothes and toiletries
70

38g fuel 228
highlift winch kit 100
tire claws 10
tire patch kit 5
Glock23 10
shovel and axe 10
chainsaw, tools 50
zebra's head 50
two kayaks 100

I'm at 1039.1# with a Ford Super Duty. Room left for a 2000# camper easy.

1400# is cake to hit.

 

[Blaise]

You have a 0.1lb stove pot and spork, a backpackers water filtration system, but a 5lb tire patch kit? And 50lb of spare parts?

Oh boy. I don't even know where you're going with this but I suspect its just to contradict anything and everything anyone says with regards to why the Defender happens to fit their use case.

Who cares, man? Throw your backpacking gear into a 2dr bronco or wrangler and get on with it... some people drive earthroamers which makes no sense to me but you don't see me taking my day to go hate on them....

 

[Todd780]

Two people. 300#
Water, 4000ml. 4
MSR Waterworks. 1
Cooler w/ice. 50
spare parts. 50
stove, pot, spork. 0.1
denatured alcohol 1

personal gear, 2 tents, 2 pads, 2 bags, 2 packs, food, snacks, spork, 1st aid, clothes and toiletries
70

38g fuel 228
highlift winch kit 100
tire claws 10
tire patch kit 5
Glock23 10
shovel and axe 10
chainsaw, tools 50
zebra's head 50
two kayaks 100

I'm at 1039.1# with a Ford Super Duty. Room left for a 2000# camper easy.

1400# is cake to hit.

Zebras head?

 

[Buliwyf]

Exactly.

Are you going glamping or not? There's a ton of weight you can rip from any overlanders setup with just a few minutes of effort. Even with my setup, you have room for over 300# of frivolities with a Bronco or 4runner. Wrangler? Not so much I guess. I don't think 2000# packed into a Defender sounds like fun at all.

Never leave home without it: