New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[nickw]

Land Cruiser evolved into three lines: heavy duty, light duty, and station wagon. The 200 series is in the station wagon line. The Early Land Cruisers evolved most directly into the HD line where the 70 series currently resides. If the Defender had continued to evolve as the others did, it would today resemble a vehicle similar to the Pajero, JL, Patrol, 70 Series, and Jimmy.

Not sure if that's logical. But the point was, Fj40/55 evolved into what we see today....which has IFS. Nobody would argue a 100 or 200 doesnt make a great Expo rig, both with IFS, both got lots of flak at the time also for not being 'real' cruisers by guys like you, now they are legendary. Hell, even the 80s were thought of as soccer mom rigs in the 90s.

The Defender skipped the FJ60/70/80 steps and went right to effectively a 200 series....although the Defender has much more payload, better angles, more clearance, can ford deeper water....sounds like its closer to what a cruiser should be than what we currently have.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Not sure if that's logical. But the point was, Fj40/55 evolved into what we see today

Not exactly. Series/Defender reflect the 20/40/70 series, whereas the later RRC/D1 reflects the later 55/60/80/100/200 series. There’s rumors the 200 is at the end of its line. We’ll see.

 

[REDROVER]

To say that upper class business man or folks with money don’t buy pickup truck is absolutely wrong,

ford raptor over 100 grand
Ford F-350 super duty luxury package 90+ grand
same goes with dodge
Or Chevrolet trucks,

They absolutely sell and they sell a lot of expensive luxury trucks.

But mid size truck for 80 grand won’t sell and Land Rover actually made a smart move this time by not offering pick up defender.
If it was 40.000 Range, it would of sold a lot and take a nice portion from other mid size segment.

Maybe I am wrong but I can’t see someone paying 80k for mid size pickup truck.

 

[Victory_Overland]

I agree with @REDROVER on the sale of the a mid-size truck unless it came fully kitted, locked all around adventure package style with pass-through rear cabin; then I see some paying for it just as the Bollinger, and other new e-class trucks but a very niche market that I believe JLR knew was not going to be worth the squeeze on. Who knows, if Defender sells off the charts, it's possible we will see multiple variants morph into these classic designs later on down the road; getting the D90 and D110 to the global market successfully needs to be JLR #1 priority at this point IMO.

4Door short box truck Defender versions fit the same category as the Tacoma, Ranger, and Colorado but "would" come with the price tag of the Chevy Avalanche or that Denali version they had; the price tag is what does not fit for the Defender truck. If the D90 Commercial comes to the USA and sells a ton at super cheap prices, then I believe a commercial variant Defender Truck could do the same at a $40-50k price tag and pull sales from the above three I mentioned.

I also agree with @EricTyrrell on the rumors of the LC200 going away; I believe I read a report on this directly from Toyota. I think the writing on the wall has been there for years so unless they do a return to roots LC design of some sort I just don't think it sells or markets well for the price-tag that comes with it.

 

[Todd780]

Not to hijack the thread..

Please do, haha!

 

[Todd780]

Maybe I am wrong but I can’t see someone paying 80k for mid size pickup truck.

Around here the high end half tons (Limited Rams and F150's and High Country Silverados /Denalis are about that 80K mark. (I know full size, but still a gas powered half ton!)

Seems nuts to me. Loaded Gladiator Rubicons are 70k+ around here.

 

[nickw]

I agree with @REDROVER on the sale of the a mid-size truck unless it came fully kitted, locked all around adventure package style with pass-through rear cabin; then I see some paying for it just as the Bollinger, and other new e-class trucks but a very niche market that I believe JLR knew was not going to be worth the squeeze on. Who knows, if Defender sells off the charts, it's possible we will see multiple variants morph into these classic designs later on down the road; getting the D90 and D110 to the global market successfully needs to be JLR #1 priority at this point IMO.

4Door short box truck Defender versions fit the same category as the Tacoma, Ranger, and Colorado but "would" come with the price tag of the Chevy Avalanche or that Denali version they had; the price tag is what does not fit for the Defender truck. If the D90 Commercial comes to the USA and sells a ton at super cheap prices, then I believe a commercial variant Defender Truck could do the same at a $40-50k price tag and pull sales from the above three I mentioned.

I also agree with @EricTyrrell on the rumors of the LC200 going away; I believe I read a report on this directly from Toyota. I think the writing on the wall has been there for years so unless they do a return to roots LC design of some sort I just don't think it sells or markets well for the price-tag that comes with it.

I dont think Toyota can financially do that. Cruisers are expensive to manuf and import, even stripper work models are $50k+ easy. Get one that has a nice interior, your up in that premium full size territory. Toyota would need to manuf in N America which ain't happenin, particularly for a rig that would not sell in big numbers.

 

[Victory_Overland]

I dont think Toyota can financially do that. Cruisers are expensive to manuf and import, even stripper work models are $50k+ easy. Get one that has a nice interior, your up in that premium full size territory. Toyota would need to manuf in N America which ain't happenin, particularly for a rig that would not sell in big numbers.

Agreed; I think the LC200's days are limited for sure!

 

[Jwestpro]

Agreed; I think the LC200's days are limited for sure!

LC200 might be the replacement in few yrs for when I need to move on from the LR3.

 

[krick3tt]

I find the LR3 to be more than adequate for my needs. Had Mogs and Pinzgauers, Toyotas and Chevies and Fords even a Jeep. When the LR goes bad I'll replace the engine. Still be less expensive than a new one.

 

[Victory_Overland]

I find the LR3 to be more than adequate for my needs. Had Mogs and Pinzgauers, Toyotas and Chevies and Fords even a Jeep. When the LR goes bad I'll replace the engine. Still be less expensive than a new one.

Funny you should say that because I actually have a 20% operating cost fund just for this purpose; money in the bank for when I need to buy one. I imagine a 2008 with a warrantied new/rebuild engine; sounds a lot like what many are doing with their classic LR's. Can't understand why people treat these like throwaway vehicles.

 

[Red90]

Funny you should say that because I actually have a 20% operating cost fund just for this purpose; money in the bank for when I need to buy one. I imagine a 2008 with a warrantied new/rebuild engine; sounds a lot like what many are doing with their classic LR's. Can't understand why people treat these like throwaway vehicles.

The problem with newer vehicles is there will become a point when something is unrepairable or unreplaceble in the electronics. It is bad enough already with all mechanic vehicles and NLA parts but the newer vehicles will be much worse.

 

[Victory_Overland]

The problem with newer vehicles is there will become a point when something is unrepairable or unreplaceble in the electronics. It is bad enough already with all mechanic vehicles and NLA parts but the newer vehicles will be much worse.

I can definitely agree with that chain of thought; long term maintenance will surely be higher all the way through the life of the vehicle no matter how I swing it.

 

[leeleatherwood]

I have 2014 Jeep WK2 Overland Edition with air suspension, can raise jeep two off road heights, lowers in park mode, front lowers at high speed for aero mode....have 180k miles, been in shop 12 - 14 times for recalls/warranty work but luckily I have life time warranty....but knock on wood, I have never had issue with air suspension.

12 to 14 times?!?!

 

[Victory_Overland]

12 to 14 times?!?!

my thoughts exactly; yikes!