New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Pilat]

Why does anyone have to justify or explain why they do or don't like the looks of something? They either do or don't. End of story.

You have asked that question before, and I have answered it before:
He thinks lesser of vehicle, because he sees women like and drive the same brand. That not only says a whole lot about his view on women, but also how much he cares about "image" despite denying that. He volunteered the idea that a car must be lesser because women drives them. He used is an argument as to why a car couldn't be good. That shows just how much he not only cares about image (while denying it), but also who he thinks of as lesser people.

As a result, despite his denials, it shows that he mostly care about a vehicle to somehow make his manhood complete.

 

[Pilat]

What I actually said, and what you think I've said, are very different.

Nope. You're lying again, trying to deny what you are actually saying.

Let me make it simple for you. Land Rovers are designer status icons, not useful tools. Their new market demographics are a reflection of this.

Your argument is that since they're "designer icons" (and driven by women too), they can't be useful tools. It is once again evident that that is all you care about. Image, and which "market demographics" buy the brand (women, effete men, etc.).

So, once again you deny it in one sentence, but the very next one you simply restate the thing you denied in the first one.

 

[Todd780]

You have asked that question before, and I have answered it before:
He thinks lesser of vehicle, because he sees women like and drive the same brand. That not only says a whole lot about his view on women, but also how much he cares about "image" despite denying that. He volunteered the idea that a car must be lesser because women drives them. He used is an argument as to why a car couldn't be good. That shows just how much he not only cares about image (while denying it), but also who he thinks of as lesser people.

As a result, despite his denials, it shows that he mostly care about a vehicle to somehow make his manhood complete.

I keep asking cause it keeps coming up. Can't we just let sleeping dog lie and move on?

 

[Pilat]

I keep asking cause it keeps coming up. Can't we just let sleeping dog lie and move on?

Well, as long as people are aware that when certain people claim the new Defender can't be any good, it is because they look down on women drivers and thus LR can't possibly make a good Defender. So, if we ignore that, and ignore that every time he mentions "fashion", "effete", "luxury" or what have you, then, sure, we can move on.

I find the looking down at women and what he describe as "effete" men to be the most egregious in all of this. And I can't believe that only a few people balked at those views.

 

[mpinco]

McGovern's design language is modernist. The Land Rover Evoque was the "first complete manifestation of McGovern's design strategy", a fashion statement. It was the first Land Rover model that has more women customers (60 percent) to men. While Land Rover roots are utilitarian, the new direction is high end luxury targeting the professional class. The new 'Defender' fits within that product direction envisioned by McGovern. It is a clear break with the traditional Land Rover customer base. That break with the past can work with Range Rovers but failed with the Discovery 5.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Well, as long as people are aware that when certain people claim the new Defender can't be any good, it is because they look down on women drivers and thus LR can't possibly make a good Defender. So, if we ignore that, and ignore that every time he mentions "fashion", "effete", "luxury" or what have you, then, sure, we can move on.

I find the looking down at women and what he describe as "effete" men to be the most egregious in all of this. And I can't believe that only a few people balked at those views.

Looking down at women? Please. Manufacture drama elsewhere.

Land Rovers are soccer mom cars. That's not derisive of women. It's derisive of Land Rover's abandonment of the entire utility market.

 

[Pilat]

Looking down at women? Please. Manufacture drama elsewhere.

I already quoting you doing just that in several posts.

Land Rovers are soccer mom cars. That's not derisive of women. It's derisive of Land Rover's abandonment of the entire utility market.

This is not merely about "soccer moms" (a particular use by a segment of the woman population) as you now pretend:

However, most of the world has moved on, or in North America remained, with other brand's true utility vehicles when LR abandoned it for the more lucrative Kardashian market. Unfortunately, now LR is in a position where a buyer looking for a utility vehicle doesn't even consider walking into a LR dealer, and if they do, they'll feel as out of place as a guy browsing a women's clothing boutique.

I owned an LR3, so I want to agree, but I also sold it after getting tired of dealing with it. When I sold it, only women were interested. Around here, anyone who works with their hands for a living, or in industry, forresty, etc drive trucks, and I don't mean the Ridgeline kind. To this day, the only Land Rovers around here are owned by women and wanna-be gangbangers.

Classic Defenders are as gender neutral as a utility vehicle is going to get.

Yes, Mercedes has abandoned the utility market as well. They make butch hand bags.

It was a response to BR's objection that the LR3/4/5 are handbags. If I only see them being used by women, the prissy type, or as status icons, I think the handbag nickname fits.

You're talking about "women" driving LRs. "efete" men and about gender neutrality, and so on.. Not about a soccermom's SUV.

 

[EricTyrrell]

That break with the past can work with Range Rovers but failed with the Discovery 5.

That's what happens when their out-of-touch dandy designs both ends of a product line that are supposed to be polar opposites. They should just kill the Land Rover brand at this point. They're all Range Rovers anyway.

 

[mpinco]

JLR's design strategy of moving to the professional class is projected to see a 4% decline in revenue.

Jaguar Land Rover’s (JLR) Revenue went up slightly by 0.9% from $32.5 billion in 2017 to $32.8 billion in 2019, and is expected to fall by 4% to around $31.5 billion in 2021.

When you shrink you customer base the financials reflect that outcome.

 

[EricTyrrell]

I already quoting you doing just that in several posts.

lol. Your quotes are fully vindicating.

 

[Pilat]

And here I was, thinking the new Defender - the most rugged and capable land rover to date might just add something to their bottom line. The old one certainly didn't.

 

[mpinco]

That's what happens when their out-of-touch dandy designs both ends of a product line that are supposed to be polar opposites. They should just kill the Land Rover brand at this point. They're all Range Rovers anyway.

Whenever I discuss "Land Rover" with those not familiar with the brand they are always confused by Land Rover vs Range Rover. Even JLR has admitted that confusion/branding issue. With McGovern's design strategy that confusion should be minimized as all products exhibit the same design language, Range Rover. The problem with that strategy is that JLR just reduced their customer base by a significant percentage. The D5 is the example.

I see JLR being spun off from Tata in the near future with McGovern finding a new home. Tata is aggressively seeking 'partners' even today.

 

[Pilat]

lol. Your quotes are fully vindicating.

They are? They show you thinking less of women and "efete" men, and they outright say that that is the reason you don't want or like the new defender. You saying that is like catching your 4-yo with jam in his face, sticker fingers, and jammy finger prints all over the walls and cabinet, all the while he claims it wasn't him.
"Fully vindicated". Sheesh!

 

[Pilat]

The problem with that strategy is that JLR just reduced their customer base by a significant percentage.

The 5000 units of the old Defender sold to private hands? Yeah, I'm sure they can cope with that "loss", and will sell far more of the modern, much more capable Defender.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Latest Expo article:

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Look at those overlanding lorries, lol. The guys in the solid axle trucks must be suffering immensely.