New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Pilat]

Latest Expo article:

From The ExPo Vault: Dust and Snow in the American West - Expedition Portal

Five months. That’s how long it took me to crack. Just five months and the concrete jungle surrounding my Dallas apartment had driven me insane. A train rolled by every 15 minutes, passing cars echoed in a constant hum, and the view outside my window was nothing but a continuous reminder of the...

expeditionportal.com

Look at those overlanding lorries, lol. The guys in the solid axle trucks must be suffering immensely.

Weird, as I don't recall anyone saying that solid axle trucks wasn't able to go even slightly off road. Solid axles means slower speeds, though and less control the higher the speed (unsprung mass and the fact that the wheels are connected).
So, yeah. You can do the same route on an unsuspended bicycle, but that doesn't mean a new Defender isn't faster, more comfortable, and safer (both passive safety and active safety such as the wheels not loosing grip at speed).

 

[EricTyrrell]

They are? They show you thinking less of women and "efete" men, and they outright say that that is the reason you don't want or like the new defender. You saying that is like catching your 4-yo with jam in his face, sticker fingers, and jammy finger prints all over the walls and cabinet, all the while he claims it wasn't him.
"Fully vindicated". Sheesh!

You have quite the imagination.

 

[Pilat]

You have quite the imagination.

Yeah, the "imagination" of taking your words about women, "efete" men, being the reason you don't like the Defender, at face value. Despite you denying it every time (and then proceed to repeat it ad nauseam).

 

[EricTyrrell]

Yeah, the "imagination" of taking your words about women, "efete" men, being the reason you don't like the Defender, at face value. Despite you denying it every time (and then proceed to repeat it ad nauseam).

I'm not going to entertain your manufactured outrage. The fundamental reason I don't like the luxury Defender and Discovery is because they have nearly nothing in common with their predecessors or the Land Rover brand. Other brands have figured out how to evolve their products without throwing them away, but that sense seems elusive to LR.

 

[DieselRanger]

McGovern's design language is modernist. The Land Rover Evoque was the "first complete manifestation of McGovern's design strategy", a fashion statement. It was the first Land Rover model that has more women customers (60 percent) to men. While Land Rover roots are utilitarian, the new direction is high end luxury targeting the professional class. The new 'Defender' fits within that product direction envisioned by McGovern. It is a clear break with the traditional Land Rover customer base. That break with the past can work with Range Rovers but failed with the Discovery 5.

Criticize the design language all you want. That's what this thread is for!

I, for one bearded, wood-chopping, beer- and whiskey-swilling man with enormous balls and lots of body hair and guns, don't give two flying f*cks about design language*. Does it work? Yes, and better than any other 4x4 off the lot. I have no doubt the Defender will do the same.

*except for Cybertruck. It's ************** stupid. But the Rivian R1T...yes please.

 

[mpinco]

Criticize the design language all you want. That's what this thread is for!

.......

*except for Cybertruck. It's ************** stupid. But the Rivian R1T...yes please.

Not criticizing the design language, simply just stating facts. Sales volumes say the Evoque (RR) was a success (60% of buyers were women) while the D5 (LR) missed (minivan rear hatch, seats that don't fold flat, non-removable middle seat, loss of command seating, .....) . In many ways the different sales volume directions reflect the new JLR design direction under McGovern. RR is doing well while LR is being repositioned and struggling. As the local dealer noted all products are beginning to look the same which adds some support to Eric's comment about dropping the LR brand.

Agree on Cybertruck. Rivian is too Honda.

 

[Pilat]

I'm not going to entertain your manufactured outrage. The fundamental reason I don't like the luxury Defender and Discovery is because they have nearly nothing in common with their predecessors or the Land Rover brand. Other brands have figured out how to evolve their products without throwing them away, but that sense seems elusive to LR.

Sure. Nothing like denying what you constantly repeat.
Some people did actually balk at your "woman" comment at first. So it's not really "manufactured" at all.

 

[jmodz]

Not criticizing the design language, simply just stating facts. Sales volumes say the Evoque (RR) was a success while the D5 (LR) missed.

Agree on Cybertruck. Rivian is too Honda.

I think the D5 missed because of differentiation between models. Why get a D5 over a regular RR in NA. Not enough people in NA know or care about the discovery as an off-road model. That is where the defender comes in. It has more name recognition and marketing as an off-road model and that is why I think it has more chance of success. Yes, it is essentially taking over the discovery’s niche in LR’s lineup.

x2 on the cybertruck. I think the Rivian is cool, but if I get a truck it has to have a minimum of a 5.5ft bed. That is why I prefer the Rivian R1S, also it has a shorter length and wheelbase. However the pricing is to expensive for me on those.

 

[EricTyrrell]

I, for one bearded, wood-chopping, beer- and whiskey-swilling man with enormous balls

A few Evoque dealership visits should reduce the swelling.

 

[mpinco]

The LR DI and DII were well known as off-road models. The LR3 and LR4 were still LR's but did begin the move upscale. Both continued the LR value set with command seating, rear 'gate' design and overall styling. The D5 was a 'tweener', moving to the russian doll design language and losing much of LR. Traditional LR buyers rejected it while not enough new buyers were gained. And as commented the new Luxury Defender, a 'modernist' expression, is more along the lines of what LR traditionalist expected for the D5 but is clearly luxury. That said, the front and rear of the modernist Defender are in conflict, a Defender rear with a Disney front.

There is another aspect of LR that has also disappeared over the evolution of the brand - the ability to customize, make it your own, become a hobby. Brand loyalty then declines.

 

[Todd780]

The LR DI and DII were well known as off-road models. The LR3 and LR4 were still LR's but did begin the move upscale. Both continued the LR value set with command seating, rear 'gate' design and overall styling. The D5 was a 'tweener', moving to the russian doll design language and losing much of LR. Traditional LR buyers rejected it while not enough new buyers were gained. And as commented the new Luxury Defender, a 'modernist' expression, is more along the lines of what LR traditionalist expected for the D5. That said, the front and rear of the modernist Defender are in conflict, a Defender rear with a Disney front.

There is another aspect of LR that has also disappeared over the evolution of the brand - the ability to customize, make it your own, become a hobby. Brand loyalty then declines.

That about sums it up for me.

 

[EricTyrrell]

There is another aspect of LR that has also disappeared over the evolution of the brand - the ability to customize, make it your own, become a hobby. Brand loyalty then declines.

lol, customize with what? I'd be amazed if your average luxury Defender buyer will have ever touched half the tools here

 

[soflorovers]

Looking down at women? Please. Manufacture drama elsewhere.

Land Rovers are soccer mom cars. That's not derisive of women. It's derisive of Land Rover's abandonment of the entire utility market.

********, soccer mom? I guess times have gotten tough for my local middle school then if they require 2 factory lockers to make it to practice. Related, are Wranglers "sorority girl" vehicles? Are Hummers for people with tiny genitalia? I'm curious how you've arrived at this conclusion.

 

[soflorovers]

This is more akin to what Nissan did to the Pathfinder, except LR did it to the Discovery and Defender. Neither carry on any character of the originals, or character at all. What we have are two effete luxury cars, so yes I'd rather they not have bothered. Thankfully, other marques look to be intent on filling the void.

Disagree. This is nowhere near as radical as what occurred with the Pathfinder. The Pathfinder went from being a RWD based body-on-frame design to a FWD based unibody construction with zero capability. Again, stock for stock, a new Defender will walk all over the old one in terms of sheer capability. You talk a whole lot about character, but you fail to recognize that the character of the Defender is secondary to the primary purpose. The Defender was never meant to be a design statement; it merely became one over time. You're feeding into the stigma that a Defender needs to look a certain way. Frankly, a Defender doesn't need to look like anything. A Defender needs to PERFORM. In that regard, the new Defender is a Defender. If you're concerned about the appearance and believe that this car shouldn't exist then you've missed the entire point of the Defender's existence. It's a tool first, fashion statement last.

 

[Pilat]

Frigging perfect!