New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[leeleatherwood]

my thoughts exactly; yikes!

My friends 2014 JKU has really bad death wobble and rear main seal leak among other things.

So I already know I would never buy a Jeep but 12-14 times... Holy crap.

 

[EricTyrrell]

It's just another example of a manufacturer you don't buy a complicated product from when they can't execute quality.

 

[soflorovers]

I understand this is the RAGE/HATE thread, but I'm so confused. Would people rather they didn't make this vehicle at all? LR could've easily let this name die (Just like they did in the USA with the NAS versions in 1997), but instead made a 21st century replacement. Yeah, the looks aren't the greatest (There you go, I said it), but I feel as if we owe the new Defender a fair shot out in the field before passing judgment. It's like it's 2004 all over again and everyone is raising their pitchforks in anger at the Discovery 3; sure enough the D3 has won over many of the "diehard" LR fans that said they'd never buy anything without solid axles and coil springs.

 

[nickw]

I understand this is the RAGE/HATE thread, but I'm so confused. Would people rather they didn't make this vehicle at all? LR could've easily let this name die (Just like they did in the USA with the NAS versions in 1997), but instead made a 21st century replacement. Yeah, the looks aren't the greatest (There you go, I said it), but I feel as if we owe the new Defender a fair shot out in the field before passing judgment. It's like it's 2004 all over again and everyone is raising their pitchforks in anger at the Discovery 3; sure enough the D3 has won over many of the "diehard" LR fans that said they'd never buy anything without solid axles and coil springs.

Exactly, same outrage, different era. Same thing happened with the Cruisers -> 60 to 80 to 100 to 200, Mini trucks -> hilux to 1st gen taco, 2nd gen taco, 3rd gen taco...on and on.

I agree, it's not going to be perfect for everybody but it's a damn good compromise IMO.

 

[EricTyrrell]

I understand this is the RAGE/HATE thread, but I'm so confused. Would people rather they didn't make this vehicle at all? LR could've easily let this name die (Just like they did in the USA with the NAS versions in 1997), but instead made a 21st century replacement. Yeah, the looks aren't the greatest (There you go, I said it), but I feel as if we owe the new Defender a fair shot out in the field before passing judgment. It's like it's 2004 all over again and everyone is raising their pitchforks in anger at the Discovery 3; sure enough the D3 has won over many of the "diehard" LR fans that said they'd never buy anything without solid axles and coil springs.

This is more akin to what Nissan did to the Pathfinder, except LR did it to the Discovery and Defender. Neither carry on any character of the originals, or character at all. What we have are two effete luxury cars, so yes I'd rather they not have bothered. Thankfully, other marques look to be intent on filling the void.

 

[Pilat]

. What we have are two effete luxury cars, so yes I'd rather they not have bothered. Thankfully, other marques look to be intent on filling the void.

Again with the notion that it doesn't look "manly" enough.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Again with the notion that it doesn't look "manly" enough.

ef·fete
/əˈfēt/

(of a person) affected, overrefined, and ineffectual.
"effete trendies from art college"

no longer capable of effective action.
"the authority of an effete aristocracy began to dwindle"

 

[Pilat]

ef·fete
/əˈfēt/

(of a person) affected, overrefined, and ineffectual.
"effete trendies from art college"

no longer capable of effective action.
"the authority of an effete aristocracy began to dwindle"

Effete is usually used to describe feminine qualities in a man. I think you were the bloke who claimed that it looked too much like the other LRs you saw in your neighbourhood being driven by [gasp!] women.

 

[Pilat]

Found some of your comments as it relates to "effete":

However, most of the world has moved on, or in North America remained, with other brand's true utility vehicles when LR abandoned it for the more lucrative Kardashian market. Unfortunately, now LR is in a position where a buyer looking for a utility vehicle doesn't even consider walking into a LR dealer, and if they do, they'll feel as out of place as a guy browsing a women's clothing boutique.

I owned an LR3, so I want to agree, but I also sold it after getting tired of dealing with it. When I sold it, only women were interested. Around here, anyone who works with their hands for a living, or in industry, forresty, etc drive trucks, and I don't mean the Ridgeline kind. To this day, the only Land Rovers around here are owned by women and wanna-be gangbangers.

Classic Defenders are as gender neutral as a utility vehicle is going to get.

Yes, Mercedes has abandoned the utility market as well. They make butch hand bags.

It was a response to BR's objection that the LR3/4/5 are handbags. If I only see them being used by women, the prissy type, or as status icons, I think the handbag nickname fits.

So there. I think that most people are now able to see through your dictionary lookup of the term.

 

[mpinco]

For the US market Eric is accurate in his characterization of recent LR design direction and buyers/owners. The majority are women. That is consistent with design director, Gerry McGovern, and his background of furniture design and modernism.

Land Rover design director Gerry McGovern’s Warwickshire home is a dazzling slice of LA modernism

The Evoque was a fashion statement. The Luxury Defender exhibits many of the same design cues. Left to his own Gerry would have created a significantly different new Defender design but was restrained by the need to maintain some level of history. The front end vs back end is a good example of that 'conflict'.

 

[Todd780]

Personally, I don't have an issue with this vehicle. I have an issue that this vehicle is a Defender.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Found some of your comments as it relates to "effete":

So there. I think that most people are now able to see through your dictionary lookup of the term.

If you insist on discussing looks, then let's go there. They don't look like Discoveries or Defenders, at all. All character is lost. The LR3/4 was bad enough, but the latest generations even further diluted. Essentially, the models are large Evoque, short Evoque, or long Evoque.

The comments about them being cars for females is self-evident, and the purpose is to highlight who isn't using Land Rovers anymore. Working people, industry, government, etc don't use Land Rovers because they're useless for such purposes. They're designer status icons.

 

[Pilat]

If you insist on discussing looks, then let's go there. They don't look like Discoveries or Defenders, at all. All character is lost. The LR3/4 was bad enough, but the latest generations even further diluted. Essentially, the models are large Evoque, short Evoque, or long Evoque.

The comments about them being cars for females is self-evident, and the purpose is to highlight who isn't using Land Rovers anymore. Working people, industry, government, etc don't use Land Rovers because they're useless for such purposes. They're designer status icons.

LOL, I'm not insistent on discussing looks. You are. You claim such things doesn't matter, yet sometimes in the same paragraphs or even the same sentence, you show that it is exactly about looks. You even posted about the Evoque this time, to somehow make your point that it is not about that? You care so much about your image that you think it's a strike against a vehicle that a woman drives it or even likes it.

As for the "it must be useless, because those people* like it or drive it."

The whole point of confronting you with your own opinion is that I don't think a man who cares so much about his perceived "manhood" (it's a vehicle, get over it), is anymore secure in their manhood as those "effete" people you denigrate. I find it utterly shallow to care about who drives similar vehicles from the same brand.



* People who likes fashion and/or women (!!) drivers

 

[Todd780]

Why does anyone have to justify or explain why they do or don't like the looks of something? They either do or don't. End of story.

 

[EricTyrrell]

LOL, I'm not insistent on discussing looks. You are. You claim such things doesn't matter, yet sometimes in the same paragraphs or even the same sentence, you show that it is exactly about looks. You even posted about the Evoque this time, to somehow make your point that it is not about that? You care so much about your image that you think it's a strike against a vehicle that a woman drives it or even likes it.

As for the "it must be useless, because those people* like it or drive it."

The whole point of confronting you with your own opinion is that I don't think a man who cares so much about his perceived "manhood" (it's a vehicle, get over it), is anymore secure in their manhood as those "effete" people you denigrate. I find it utterly shallow to care about who drives similar vehicles from the same brand.



* People who likes fashion and/or women (!!) drivers

What I actually said, and what you think I've said, are very different.

Let me make it simple for you.
Land Rovers are designer status icons, not useful tools. Their new market demographics are a reflection of this.
The latest products bear zero resemblance, and incorporate none of the character, of their progenitors. They're bland crossovers.